SwampD Posted May 4, 2020 Report Posted May 4, 2020 16 hours ago, Wyldnwoody44 said: They already are, many NY well-to-do citizens have migrated here to their homes near the ski lodge. It's making the locals.... Less-than-comfortable. I say let everyone loose and let the chips fall where they may. We'll all recover and be fine eventually, or we won't make it.... You keep coming back to this. Has the lockdown saved lives? If so, what’s the problem? Miffed about a cancelled vacay? I haven’t had a real one in a decade. Get over it. You’re young. There’ll be others.
Wyldnwoody44 Posted May 4, 2020 Report Posted May 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, SwampD said: You keep coming back to this. Has the lockdown saved lives? If so, what’s the problem? Miffed about a cancelled vacay? I haven’t had a real one in a decade. Get over it. You’re young. There’ll be others. I don't mind the cancelled vacations, actually stopping intercontinental travel was probably one of the only smart things done. I would support that through the summer if need be. It's all the other nonsense, masks in public after we've clearly peaked, it's the dumb picking and choosing who is essential, tanking small businesses and then printing money out of the blue for a stupid stimulus plan that clearly doesn't work. It's going to be the absolute fallout this country will suffer because instead of coming at this rationally, we look at NYC and freak out everywhere. There was and is a middle ground in all of this between "lock down" and complete freedom of movement. 2
SwampD Posted May 4, 2020 Report Posted May 4, 2020 12 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said: I don't mind the cancelled vacations, actually stopping intercontinental travel was probably one of the only smart things done. I would support that through the summer if need be. It's all the other nonsense, masks in public after we've clearly peaked, it's the dumb picking and choosing who is essential, tanking small businesses and then printing money out of the blue for a stupid stimulus plan that clearly doesn't work. It's going to be the absolute fallout this country will suffer because instead of coming at this rationally, we look at NYC and freak out everywhere. There was and is a middle ground in all of this between "lock down" and complete freedom of movement. I have to go to work every day. Everyone is socially distancing, but what do you think about masks at work? Do they do anything? 1
SABRES 0311 Posted May 4, 2020 Report Posted May 4, 2020 15 minutes ago, SwampD said: I have to go to work every day. Everyone is socially distancing, but what do you think about masks at work? Do they do anything? Better than nothing. Depends on the filtration and how much you are exposed to other people’s disgustingness.
Wyldnwoody44 Posted May 4, 2020 Report Posted May 4, 2020 16 minutes ago, SwampD said: I have to go to work every day. Everyone is socially distancing, but what do you think about masks at work? Do they do anything? The mask issue has 2 sides, there's science that shows if 2 people in contact with each other both have a mask on that it's supposed to decrease change of spread. However there is some new science that is claiming that masks have a negative effect on the wearer of them, especially if worn for prolonged periods. I honestly haven't dived into the science behind it yet, so I don't have a solid answer. I think the bigger issue with masks is that many wear them very improperly and many find them so uncomfortable they end up taking them on/off, and don't do that right, so they contaminate their hands and away we go. 1
SwampD Posted May 4, 2020 Report Posted May 4, 2020 13 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said: The mask issue has 2 sides, there's science that shows if 2 people in contact with each other both have a mask on that it's supposed to decrease change of spread. However there is some new science that is claiming that masks have a negative effect on the wearer of them, especially if worn for prolonged periods. I honestly haven't dived into the science behind it yet, so I don't have a solid answer. I think the bigger issue with masks is that many wear them very improperly and many find them so uncomfortable they end up taking them on/off, and don't do that right, so they contaminate their hands and away we go. So, ”Some people wear them wrong so nobody should wear them.” Aren’t you kinda throwing the baby out with the bath water? Doesn’t make sense to me.
Stoner Posted May 4, 2020 Report Posted May 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Wyldnwoody44 said: I don't mind the cancelled vacations, actually stopping intercontinental travel was probably one of the only smart things done. I would support that through the summer if need be. It's all the other nonsense, masks in public after we've clearly peaked, it's the dumb picking and choosing who is essential, tanking small businesses and then printing money out of the blue for a stupid stimulus plan that clearly doesn't work. It's going to be the absolute fallout this country will suffer because instead of coming at this rationally, we look at NYC and freak out everywhere. There was and is a middle ground in all of this between "lock down" and complete freedom of movement. Are you saying the measures NY put in place are at one extreme? I don't think your freedom of movement was restricted. And what is the basis for thinking once you reach peak you can take off masks? The virus is not going away. 29 minutes ago, SwampD said: So, ”Some people wear them wrong so nobody should wear them.” Aren’t you kinda throwing the baby out with the bath water? Doesn’t make sense to me. Mind boggling isn't it? 1
darksabre Posted May 4, 2020 Report Posted May 4, 2020 Welp, one of my co-workers has officially tested positive.
shrader Posted May 4, 2020 Report Posted May 4, 2020 (edited) On 5/4/2020 at 10:28 AM, SwampD said: So, ”Some people wear them wrong so nobody should wear them.” Aren’t you kinda throwing the baby out with the bath water? Doesn’t make sense to me. There should at least be some level of educations about the masks. I can't count the number of times I've seen a news reporter out at a remote location doing their report with the mask pulled down below their chin. One night, they actually did a story on proper mask wearing, then immediately cut away to the reporter with the mask pulled down. This is where the majority of people are getting their information. I hate that they have as much power as they do, but since they do in fact have it, they could be doing so much more good by mandating that their reporters either take the mask completely off while on the air or leave it over their mouth. Now maybe I just happen to watch the only station where the reporters do this. I'm guessing that's not the case, but I'll acknowledge the possibility. Edited May 6, 2020 by shrader 1
Wyldnwoody44 Posted May 4, 2020 Report Posted May 4, 2020 45 minutes ago, PASabreFan said: Are you saying the measures NY put in place are at one extreme? I don't think your freedom of movement was restricted. And what is the basis for thinking once you reach peak you can take off masks? The virus is not going away. Mind boggling isn't it? The virus will go away once we are immune to it, the longer we do this, the longer it will be around, pretty simple. Obviously you don't agree with my take on this and that is fine, we are simply not going to see eye to eye on it. Herd immunity works. 1
SwampD Posted May 4, 2020 Report Posted May 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said: The virus will go away once we are immune to it, the longer we do this, the longer it will be around, pretty simple. Obviously you don't agree with my take on this and that is fine, we are simply not going to see eye to eye on it. Herd immunity works. Isn’t that the point? Seems like everything is working the way we wanted it to.
darksabre Posted May 4, 2020 Report Posted May 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said: The virus will go away once we are immune to it, the longer we do this, the longer it will be around, pretty simple. Obviously you don't agree with my take on this and that is fine, we are simply not going to see eye to eye on it. Herd immunity works. I don't think anyone is arguing that herd immunity doesn't work, or that it's not the goal. The whole purpose of these measures is to build herd immunity at a rate that hospitals can handle. Hopefully we've got a good idea now of the things we can do to slow the infection rate to reach herd immunity while not crippling the healthcare system. 5
Marvin Posted May 4, 2020 Report Posted May 4, 2020 52 minutes ago, darksabre said: I don't think anyone is arguing that herd immunity doesn't work, or that it's not the goal. The whole purpose of these measures is to build herd immunity at a rate that hospitals can handle. Hopefully we've got a good idea now of the things we can do to slow the infection rate to reach herd immunity while not crippling the healthcare system. It also buys time for treatments to be developed (probably months) and vaccines to be tested (probably years if ever). This decreases the aggregate death toll from the virus and the collateral deaths from lack of hospital space. 1
Indabuff Posted May 4, 2020 Author Report Posted May 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Wyldnwoody44 said: The mask issue has 2 sides, there's science that shows if 2 people in contact with each other both have a mask on that it's supposed to decrease change of spread. However there is some new science that is claiming that masks have a negative effect on the wearer of them, especially if worn for prolonged periods. I honestly haven't dived into the science behind it yet, so I don't have a solid answer. I think the bigger issue with masks is that many wear them very improperly and many find them so uncomfortable they end up taking them on/off, and don't do that right, so they contaminate their hands and away we go. We are required to be fit tested yearly at work. We also are required to watch videos on PPE and how to don and doff. Personally I think one of the largest problems is that people are putting on and removing masks in an incorrect way that leads to unintentional touching of the face with hands. 1
Ogre Posted May 6, 2020 Report Posted May 6, 2020 On 5/4/2020 at 1:12 PM, Indabuff said: We are required to be fit tested yearly at work. We also are required to watch videos on PPE and how to don and doff. Personally I think one of the largest problems is that people are putting on and removing masks in an incorrect way that leads to unintentional touching of the face with hands. Dude...you’re a safety trainer’s dream, you pay attention! When I’m wearing the PPE I was my hands before I remove the mask. Take the mask off remove filters (I use the half mask with replacement filters) and clean the mask. Then I wash my hands again. PPE is uncomfortable. It can save your life and at the least preserve your life. Deal with it. It was 95 degrees this particular day and I was wearing a half mask APR and a hard hat under all that leather and glass. I wore it for ten hours that day. 1
Indabuff Posted May 6, 2020 Author Report Posted May 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Ogre said: Dude...you’re a safety trainer’s dream, you pay attention! When I’m wearing the PPE I was my hands before I remove the mask. Take the mask off remove filters (I use the half mask with replacement filters) and clean the mask. Then I wash my hands again. PPE is uncomfortable. It can save your life and at the least preserve your life. Deal with it. It was 95 degrees this particular day and I was wearing a half mask APR and a hard hat under all that leather and glass. I wore it for ten hours that day. It's funny that most of us found the fit testing a nuisance or comical (or both). Nobody's laughing now. That picture is absolutely badass. 1
SwampD Posted May 6, 2020 Report Posted May 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Ogre said: Dude...you’re a safety trainer’s dream, you pay attention! When I’m wearing the PPE I was my hands before I remove the mask. Take the mask off remove filters (I use the half mask with replacement filters) and clean the mask. Then I wash my hands again. PPE is uncomfortable. It can save your life and at the least preserve your life. Deal with it. It was 95 degrees this particular day and I was wearing a half mask APR and a hard hat under all that leather and glass. I wore it for ten hours that day. GORT!!! 2
North Buffalo Posted May 6, 2020 Report Posted May 6, 2020 On 5/4/2020 at 11:44 AM, Wyldnwoody44 said: The virus will go away once we are immune to it, the longer we do this, the longer it will be around, pretty simple. Obviously you don't agree with my take on this and that is fine, we are simply not going to see eye to eye on it. Herd immunity works. I agree and disagree. Herd Immunity does work imo... problem is not enough of the herd outside of NYC area has been infected and now we are seeing hotspots elsewhere that are even worse prepared with less hospitals and hospital bed per thousand population than my area. If all these yahoos dont take precautions til a vaccine shows up this virus is going to just keep going and going.. The disarray of our healthcare system will delay enough vaccinations to make a difference til next year...
Stoner Posted May 6, 2020 Report Posted May 6, 2020 11 hours ago, Ogre said: Dude...you’re a safety trainer’s dream, you pay attention! When I’m wearing the PPE I was my hands before I remove the mask. Take the mask off remove filters (I use the half mask with replacement filters) and clean the mask. Then I wash my hands again. PPE is uncomfortable. It can save your life and at the least preserve your life. Deal with it. It was 95 degrees this particular day and I was wearing a half mask APR and a hard hat under all that leather and glass. I wore it for ten hours that day. The moment Gort realized he'd never lick a *****.
Wyldnwoody44 Posted May 6, 2020 Report Posted May 6, 2020 1 hour ago, North Buffalo said: I agree and disagree. Herd Immunity does work imo... problem is not enough of the herd outside of NYC area has been infected and now we are seeing hotspots elsewhere that are even worse prepared with less hospitals and hospital bed per thousand population than my area. If all these yahoos dont take precautions til a vaccine shows up this virus is going to just keep going and going.. The disarray of our healthcare system will delay enough vaccinations to make a difference til next year... I'd be very skeptical of a vaccine saving the day, I do not trust the efficacy of a vaccine that is most likely going to be rushed, especially for a virus in the Corona family. I fear that the vaccine will be about as effective as the seasonal influenza vaccine (which isn't that great). Right now, the best science we actually can 100% confirm is that once you have the virus and recover you do have a certain amount of immunity. Now we don't know if the immunity lasts 2 weeks or 2 years; and we have no idea if this thing is going to be a seasonal thing. But having immune protections trumps a vaccination at this point in time. 1
darksabre Posted May 6, 2020 Report Posted May 6, 2020 14 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said: I'd be very skeptical of a vaccine saving the day, I do not trust the efficacy of a vaccine that is most likely going to be rushed, especially for a virus in the Corona family. I fear that the vaccine will be about as effective as the seasonal influenza vaccine (which isn't that great). Right now, the best science we actually can 100% confirm is that once you have the virus and recover you do have a certain amount of immunity. Now we don't know if the immunity lasts 2 weeks or 2 years; and we have no idea if this thing is going to be a seasonal thing. But having immune protections trumps a vaccination at this point in time. Yeah, I have no confidence that a vaccine is the solution to this problem.
LTS Posted May 6, 2020 Report Posted May 6, 2020 Even if there is a vaccine, regardless of its efficacy, it will be an eternity before it is rolled out. The manufacturing logistics, distribution, priority ranking for who gets vaccinated and when... Reading an article this morning on how various parts of the US are handling the "wearing of masks" concept... it's about to get real ugly.
Stoner Posted May 6, 2020 Report Posted May 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Wyldnwoody44 said: I'd be very skeptical of a vaccine saving the day, I do not trust the efficacy of a vaccine that is most likely going to be rushed, especially for a virus in the Corona family. I fear that the vaccine will be about as effective as the seasonal influenza vaccine (which isn't that great). Right now, the best science we actually can 100% confirm is that once you have the virus and recover you do have a certain amount of immunity. Now we don't know if the immunity lasts 2 weeks or 2 years; and we have no idea if this thing is going to be a seasonal thing. But having immune protections trumps a vaccination at this point in time. Which means herd immunity is not to be relied on either. 1 hour ago, LTS said: Even if there is a vaccine, regardless of its efficacy, it will be an eternity before it is rolled out. The manufacturing logistics, distribution, priority ranking for who gets vaccinated and when... Reading an article this morning on how various parts of the US are handling the "wearing of masks" concept... it's about to get real ugly. Wonder where folks would get the idea that wearing a mask isn't necessary... lessen yer a libtard or a fairy. 1
Neo Posted May 6, 2020 Report Posted May 6, 2020 It's going to be a long time before we're going to be able to "rely on" things in any historic or meaningful sense of the word. I'm not expecting that. It'd be great if it comes, of course. I won't look for it before I venture out because it won't be there. And, to politicians promising or requiring undeliverable certainty, guaranty and safety, I say "a pox on both their houses", pun intended. In the meantime, there's going to be assumption of risk, individually and collectively, in your home and in your legislative hallways. Good luck to all! A return to life with other human beings will require a venturing out amid risk. The virus is no longer a DNA/RNA strand and the organs are no longer lungs and hearts. The body is no longer a 44 year old man, or woman. The virus is now economic calamity and it's spreading and killing. The organs are businesses and other ways of livelihood. The body is our community. Your lives are screwed up, short term. Unrecognizably different, short and intermediate term. Unknown, long term. Now, never underestimate man's ability to fight through something. We could see tests and vaccines tomorrow, or in months. I will dance ten jigs. I'm just not counting on it or expecting it. If one doesn't count on or expect something, what does one do? He makes peace with his circumstances and he acts. Assumption of risk ... I'm ready to walk outside, today. Admittedly, I have a "tear off the band aid if leaving it on will do little good" mentality.
matter2003 Posted May 6, 2020 Report Posted May 6, 2020 On 5/4/2020 at 9:12 AM, North Buffalo said: On the sad news front, one of our ER tech's 8 year old son just died of Covid. And one of our ER nurses at my other hospital just checked in last night with SOB. Wow...that is exceedingly rare to kill someone that young...usually you hear about them being asymptomatic or getting COVID-Toes
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