COVID-19

[SwampD]

6 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

Yeh I agree some of the restrictions are dumb... though kinda get the camping thing... it should be defined better.  No large scale camping... one tent. RV parks meh... problem we see along the the lower ny camp grounds is large family groups getting together at camp ground and they are hard to police... plus state is trying to save revenue not having to police so it sort of makes sense.

Your idea of camping and mine is not what others think it is.

I would think just the opposite. RV campers all use their own shitters. Tent campers all have to use one bathroom.

[North Buffalo]

Just now, SwampD said:

I would think just the opposite. RV campers all use their own shitters. Tent campers all have to use one bathroom.

True but larger family/friend groups tend to congregate around RVs.  A typical tent holds 2 adults plus 2-3 kids... Some RVs hold double that and with visitors more.  My idea of tenting is to get the hell away from people not closer... 

[SwampD]

4 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

True but larger family/friend groups tend to congregate around RVs.  A typical tent holds 2 adults plus 2-3 kids... Some RVs hold double that and with visitors more.  My idea of tenting is to get the hell away from people not closer... 

If it takes 14 days to get, and people have been sheltered for 2 months, aren’t we at the point of quarantine now where we can assume that people don’t have it.

Edited April 26, 2020 by SwampD

[Weave]

8 minutes ago, SwampD said:

If it takes 14 days to get, and people have been sheltered for 2 months, aren’t we at the point of quarantine now where we can assume that people don’t have it.

How many people do you know that are actually isolated though?  The number of "essential businesses" open way exceeds what you can honeslty define as actually essential if we are being honest.  So a really high percentage of people are still going in to work.  I know in my household, I've been more or less sheltered for goin on 6 weeks now, but my wife is in the office every week day.  Therefore, we aren't really sheltered.  Even though we've avoided unnecessary outings, there is no way to know if she was exposed on say, Thursday, while at work.  Then on Friday we hitch up the camper and head to the campgrounds, interact with the person taking money and dealing with reservations at the campground office, use the campground bathroom during our stay, etc.

It's not a stretch to see where camping scenarios lead to transmission.

For the record, I feel the same way about boat launches and marinas.  When the marina closures were announcing the fishing community went ballistic.  The primary argument being, I'm on a boat in the middle of the water with my household family members and you can't get any safer.  And what do I see on social media yesterday and today?  Fishing pics with groups of grown men, obviously not household members, and group pics in boat launch lots.  Yeah.  You wanna get that ***** closed back down?  Keep doing what you are doing and get this virus on the uptick again.

[Wyldnwoody44]

37 minutes ago, Weave said:

You have a risk taking personality.  Your everyday life shows that you are comfortable with risk.  That is the difference in perspective here.

This is true, I also don't have any kids/real family to think about either, so my perspective should be taken with a grain of salt for sure.

[SwampD]

17 minutes ago, Weave said:

How many people do you know that are actually isolated though?  The number of "essential businesses" open way exceeds what you can honeslty define as actually essential if we are being honest.  So a really high percentage of people are still going in to work.  I know in my household, I've been more or less sheltered for goin on 6 weeks now, but my wife is in the office every week day.  Therefore, we aren't really sheltered.  Even though we've avoided unnecessary outings, there is no way to know if she was exposed on say, Thursday, while at work.  Then on Friday we hitch up the camper and head to the campgrounds, interact with the person taking money and dealing with reservations at the campground office, use the campground bathroom during our stay, etc.

It's not a stretch to see where camping scenarios lead to transmission.

For the record, I feel the same way about boat launches and marinas.  When the marina closures were announcing the fishing community went ballistic.  The primary argument being, I'm on a boat in the middle of the water with my household family members and you can't get any safer.  And what do I see on social media yesterday and today?  Fishing pics with groups of grown men, obviously not household members, and group pics in boat launch lots.  Yeah.  You wanna get that ***** closed back down?  Keep doing what you are doing and get this virus on the uptick again.

This got me thinking. You have to fill those boats up with gas as well. A week into our curfew order, I went to the gas station and filled my truck an all my gas cans. I work really close to my home so I still have more that a month before I have to fill up again.

I wonder if another factor in the shelter in place order is just to keep people from driving. Who needs rats to spread the plague when you’ve got the gas pump credit card reader?

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

The big issue (at least for me) is that, as a person of working age and otherwise healthy, how do I reduce my risk when I am told we are going back to normal?  I'm not immuno-suppressed.  My underlying condition that puts me at greater risk for the worst of this disease is shared by millions of other people who are also otherwise healthy.  So I go into the risk pool when it is decided to flip this switch back on, but the risks aren't the same for me.  I wouldn't be in the class of people that we think of as needing protection like the elderly or those with suppressed immune systems.

I keep hoping to see some solid data that sheds some light on what underlying conditions are the worst, or which combinations of conditions with certain meds, etc. I think it's still too early to know for sure, although there's some data out there. It's kind of confusing for the layman. We know it's an overactive immune response that gets a lot of (most?) people in trouble. So wouldn't a medication that dampens the immune system be protective?

One thing to ponder is whether people with chronic health conditions by definition have immune systems that don't work right.

[LTS]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

So odd. I don't even know where to start. Maybe I could start with the fact you are arguing against mitigation but practicing it at the same time. Keep the vulnerable inside and everyone else go back to normal. OK, you first. What are you afraid of? Get in there! Make some new friends!

I'm not arguing for or against anything at the moment. I'm allowing for an understanding of why people are against the who mitigation practice. Even if I believe I am not at as high a risk as others I allow for the fact that others are and that they are out and about as well. I take my actions because I respect the current situation. At the same time, the definition of the current situation is constantly changing. Everyone knows that things will re-open, so it's not as though that has been closed off to the world.  The questions are how fast and with what rules?  Each day we grow closer to that end scenario there are going to be people who say "We;ve been cautious enough, let's go".  

Naturally that does not change or help those, like Weave, who are knowingly at an increased risk to this virus. I, personally, have no real interest in being a carrier that harms someone else. So I still choose to keep my distance. I can feel my own irritation growing at the rules that are in place. I 100% cannot stand the concept of wearing a mask. At least with regards to the mask scenario I can simply choose to not go into stores. As for the rest of it, I'll keep waiting for the next rule or change to be put in place and go from there.

If I were allowed to go hang out at a bar right now would I?  Yes.  I would.  But I'm not also about to go protest against the current standards. I'm not so opposed to the current way of life that I feel the need to work against the system.

Hopefully that better explains things.

2 hours ago, Weave said:

 

The big issue (at least for me) is that, as a person of working age and otherwise healthy, how do I reduce my risk when I am told we are going back to normal?  I'm not immuno-suppressed.  My underlying condition that puts me at greater risk for the worst of this disease is shared by millions of other people who are also otherwise healthy.  So I go into the risk pool when it is decided to flip this switch back on, but the risks aren't the same for me.  I wouldn't be in the class of people that we think of as needing protection like the elderly or those with suppressed immune systems.

Understood and that's really a problem overall.  There is a good portion of the population who don't outwardly fall into the at-risk categories, or at the very least what's considered to be the at-risk categories. We don't really know enough to know who is at risk, there are many theories. 

1 hour ago, North Buffalo said:

True but larger family/friend groups tend to congregate around RVs.  A typical tent holds 2 adults plus 2-3 kids... Some RVs hold double that and with visitors more.  My idea of tenting is to get the hell away from people not closer... 

You're not incorrect, but I watch people pull up 3 vehicles next to each other in a parking lot and hang out in a similar fashion. I think the bottom line is that people who don't want to isolate themselves are not going to do so as it's clear they aren't right now.  The resulting question is, do you lock things down more to include the tailgating as being illegal, do you open it up because people are doing it anyway,  or do you leave it as is with the mixed bag allowing for people to question "what the hell is going on?"  I don't have that answer, not yet.

1 hour ago, Weave said:

How many people do you know that are actually isolated though?  The number of "essential businesses" open way exceeds what you can honeslty define as actually essential if we are being honest.  So a really high percentage of people are still going in to work.  I know in my household, I've been more or less sheltered for goin on 6 weeks now, but my wife is in the office every week day.  Therefore, we aren't really sheltered.  Even though we've avoided unnecessary outings, there is no way to know if she was exposed on say, Thursday, while at work.  Then on Friday we hitch up the camper and head to the campgrounds, interact with the person taking money and dealing with reservations at the campground office, use the campground bathroom during our stay, etc.

It's not a stretch to see where camping scenarios lead to transmission.

For the record, I feel the same way about boat launches and marinas.  When the marina closures were announcing the fishing community went ballistic.  The primary argument being, I'm on a boat in the middle of the water with my household family members and you can't get any safer.  And what do I see on social media yesterday and today?  Fishing pics with groups of grown men, obviously not household members, and group pics in boat launch lots.  Yeah.  You wanna get that ***** closed back down?  Keep doing what you are doing and get this virus on the uptick again.

These scenarios exist everywhere. Isolation is an illusion at this point. At best it can be said there is an attitude that leans towards mitigated contact, but if you roll up to a gas pump or use instacart, or even walk in a store and pick up a box of triscuits you are immediately not isolating yourself.  We can see these scenarios everywhere, which is what leads me to believe that we'll find out that a great many of us have been exposed and will have never known it. 

In what you are saying, I don't think it's a stretch to see that any activity really leads to transmission.  Ultimately it boils down to mitigating the social circle one is in.  If, 4 months ago I had sauntered off to live in a commune with 100 other people and by choice we avoided contact with the outside world we'd all be safe and these measures would be irrelevant to us. Of course all that would end as soon as a single person increased the social circle's exposure.

52 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

This is true, I also don't have any kids/real family to think about either, so my perspective should be taken with a grain of salt for sure.

Yeah, at the same time my son who just turned 16 wants to go get a job... at the supermarket.  I have to ask myself how I feel about that.  Do we let him?  He doesn't seem to care about risks, do I care about risks of what he brings home?  Do I believe that he can be responsible with the rules that will be put in place on him given that he's not particularly good at even following rules around the house?  It's a tough call.

1 minute ago, PASabreFan said:

I keep hoping to see some solid data that sheds some light on what underlying conditions are the worst, or which combinations of conditions with certain meds, etc. I think it's still too early to know for sure, although there's some data out there. It's kind of confusing for the layman. We know it's an overactive immune response that gets a lot of (most?) people in trouble. So wouldn't a medication that dampens the immune system be protective?

One thing to ponder is whether people with chronic health conditions by definition have immune systems that don't work right.

And that's the very nature of the problem.  Now I read about skin rashes on toes and fingers being linked.  It feels like each day the understanding of how this virus impacts the body is changing. We'll have an understanding of things at some point, my only question is whether that will come before or after the general population has had enough of social distancing and demands that they be allowed to accept the risks of what could happen.

[Zamboni]

CDC Adds 6 New Coronavirus Symptoms

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexandrasternlicht/2020/04/26/cdc-adds-6-new-coronavirus-symptoms/#506ef0674a41

 

 

 

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

CDC Adds 6 New Coronavirus Symptoms

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexandrasternlicht/2020/04/26/cdc-adds-6-new-coronavirus-symptoms/#506ef0674a41

 

 

 

See what we didn't know yesterday?

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

See what we didn't know yesterday?

We knew this yesterday.

[Eleven]

4 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

We knew this yesterday.

I didn't (except for the taste and smell part).  Other people didn't.  Otherwise CDC wouldn't have put out a press release.

Do you know whether the Sun will come up tomorrow?

[Stoner]

3 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I didn't (except for the taste and smell part).  Other people didn't.  Otherwise CDC wouldn't have put out a press release.

Do you know whether the Sun will come up tomorrow?

No, but I'll know on Wednesday if it did. This story was in the news on Wednesday and maybe even earlier.

[Indabuff]

6 minutes ago, Eleven said:

 

Do you know whether the Sun will come up tomorrow?

Annie says it will.

[Eleven]

2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

No, but I'll know on Wednesday if it did. This story was in the news on Wednesday and maybe even earlier.

OK I guess?  Zamboni posted it today, and the dateline is April 26, also today.

Just now, Indabuff said:

Annie says it will.

I don't like musicals.  I love operas.  But if I had to watch a musical over and over, Annie would be the one.

[North Buffalo]

Actually was aware of this stuff especially the headaches, chest tightness and body aches which feel more muscular than the flu.  PS hearing they have id'd two different strains, one obviously from China and another from Europe... calling it East Coast and West coast versions according to Radio report today.

3 minutes ago, Indabuff said:

Annie says it will.

Beatles said its coming..,

[Eleven]

1 minute ago, North Buffalo said:

Beatles said its coming..,

I don't like boy bands, either.

[nfreeman]

Beware all -- when @Eleven is out here looking to rumble, it's best to keep your head down.

[Eleven]

3 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Beware all -- when @Eleven is out here looking to rumble, it's best to keep your head down.

Or inject bleach!

[North Buffalo]

5 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Or inject bleach!

Lysol tastes better

[Eleven]

Just now, North Buffalo said:

Lysol tastes better

Not in my experience.  @nfreeman and I did lysol shots once.  I don't know how I'm still alive.

[SwampD]

So, is, like, a cheap finger pulse/ox the best weapon we have right now in detection?

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Beware all -- when @Eleven is out here looking to rumble, it's best to keep your head down.

He's dangerous alright. Five days in the future.

[Wyldnwoody44]

Breaking news: Flu symptoms added by the CDC. 

Why don't they just say, if you have any symptom at all you have Covid. 

Toe pain, yep you have it;  left knee throbbing, yep quarantine yourself 

[SwampD]

25 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

Breaking news: Flu symptoms added by the CDC. 

Why don't they just say, if you have any symptom at all you have Covid. 

Toe pain, yep you have it;  left knee throbbing, yep quarantine yourself 

That’s just gout. Stop drinking and stop eating liverwurst.