COVID-19

[FogBat]

7 hours ago, shrader said:

And now people will start blindly eating berries they picked off the ground.  This should be fun.  That's the real adventure in situations like this one, there's a decent proportion of our population that will believe anything they read*.  You can very easily convince a good number of people to drink bleach to kill of the virus.  Just listening in on some of the random conversations I've come across over the last few days, so many people are parroting stories that are complete works of fiction.  A quick example was this saturday I got to listen to a customer telling a Costco cashier that the olympics were just canceled.

 

*Don't read this as a shot at the current topic.  I'm just speaking very generally.

That's been the biggest issue for me during this whole thing. Fear and worrying will probably kill more people than the virus itself. I've been doing my best to tune out all of the literally insane conspiracy theories out there. Granted, I take the news with a grain of salt - but this is where I will listen to well-established media sources (especially since it's bad enough for mass cancellations of public events). Never did I think that we would have to deal with depicted scenarios seen in Twevle Monkeys, Outbreak, and The Last Ship. Now it's here. Claude gave his two cents on this (with good reason). Now I am convinced more than ever that God is in complete control - and yet I also know that He gave us common sense to take necessary precautions.

[#freejame]

2 hours ago, MattPie said:

Free market health care and "It can't happen here". I can't think of a better reason. There were issues with the CDC kits, but even so no one seems to have taken it seriously until the last couple days.

My partner had a wheezy cough a few weeks ago; we're wondering. Neither I nor my daughter caught anything though.

If we had free market healthcare you would be able to get the drug (and see how much it would cost you at different facilities). We have nothing close to a free market system in place. What we have is cronyism between insurance providers, health care administrators, and politicians. 

[FogBat]

6 hours ago, nfreeman said:

 

And here we have 2 regrettable themes that continue to manifest in this context: 

- "I know I'm right about XYZ political issue and so I'm just going to say what I think, regardless of whether this is the right time or place."

- "Everything is politics so I get to push my political agenda in every conversation about every topic."

Both of these themes are just self-absorbed BS.

EXACTLY!

We seem to have this irrational mindset that someone with sorcery-like powers (Merlin, Gandalf, John Coffey) will just snap his fingers and all will be well with the world. [Otherwise, we MUST find someone to blame!] People, please be patient! I'm with you all. I'm not in some indifferent Cloud Nine bubble. I'm concerned too. I'm concerned that some of us in this forum might get it (and may not live to tell about it). Yet I am convinced that we will get through this - one way or another.

[darksabre]

16 minutes ago, Claude_Verret said:

Here you go..an explanation of what happened with the test kits without politics.

 

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615323/why-the-cdc-botched-its-coronavirus-testing/

The failures of the FDA and CDC are inherently political. 

 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

Yeah well I don't know what to believe right now, those same scientists who claimed closing schools was no use, that it was nothing worse than a small flu.   Are now still contradicting each other.    I think its more Politicians trying to save their ass and saying at least they can't say we didn't do anything. 

I would direct you to look at the lengths China went to in order to keep  it “under control” there.  That is a government which is not nearly as concerned with people pleasing.  Basically all governments around the world are taking steps similar to what the US is doing, more extreme steps in many cases.

[Indabuff]

22 minutes ago, Claude_Verret said:

Here you go..an explanation of what happened with the test kits without politics.

 

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615323/why-the-cdc-botched-its-coronavirus-testing/

Thanks and thanks for your insight on this subject. 

Thanks to everyone who has provided pertinent information regarding this matter.

[shrader]

2 hours ago, Kristian said:

Mortality rate for elderly is higher, but you’re forgetting the shadow-figures. Studies claim that every confirmed case needs to be multiplied by 27, to give a best estimate of the actual number of cases.

The problem with this one is not it’s mortality rate, but that a staggering number of people contract it, all at once.

One other thing was lost in that initial post. If the overal mortality rate is 1%, but it’s 12-18% in the elderly, that means the mortality rate in non-elderly is less that 1%. The numbers need to average out. So while we do need to take action to protect the elderly, the rest are probably taking a greater risk doing certain every day risks like driving. 

[Brawndo]

The best way to sum up the goal of these actions/precautions is to have a majority of the people look back and say everyone overreacted with the precautions, because that means it worked.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Brawndo

[Eleven]

12 minutes ago, darksabre said:

The failures of the FDA and CDC are inherently political. 

 

Check out @MODO Hockey on twitter for an explanation that is unwelcome here.

[Stoner]

Interesting info. from Harvard:

Some people infected with the virus have no symptoms. When the virus does cause symptoms, common ones include low-grade fever, body aches, coughing, nasal congestion, runny nose, and sore throat. However, COVID-19 can occasionally cause more severe symptoms like high fever, severe cough, and shortness of breath, which often indicates pneumonia.

Interesting side note: On Feb. 17 & 18, I had all of these symptoms. Of course it was almost certainly the "common cold." Fever is the symptom I wonder about. I never thought of fever as a cold symptom.

[Eleven]

11 minutes ago, Curt said:

I would direct you to look at the lengths China went to in order to keep  it “under control” there.  That is a government which is not nearly as concerned with people pleasing.  Basically all governments around the world are taking steps similar to what the US is doing, more extreme steps in many cases.

Don't we suspect that they were killing people and burning them?  I've seen graphs of NO2 levels and stuff.

[Stoner]

I like the meat that Harvard has put on the bone here. It's been widely reported that the early symptoms of COVID-19 are cough, shortness of breath and fever. Which made me wonder how you could have shortness of breath and be considered a mild case. That symptom should send anyone to doctor or ER. It makes more sense that shortness of breath is an indication of more serious disease. @brawndo?

[Curt]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

Don't we suspect that they were killing people and burning them?  I've seen graphs of NO2 levels and stuff.

I’ve no idea about that.  Just that they basically shut down EVERYTHING in some major cities for a period of time.

[Claude_Verret]

12 minutes ago, darksabre said:

The failures of the FDA and CDC are inherently political. 

 

I guess if you consider government bureaucracy and red tape that always exists within these agencies to be political.

Nevertheless, the initial failure was not even a failure of bureaucracy, but with kit reagents that were contaminated. How they dealt with that initial problem was where they got bogged down even more.

I've actually dealt with the CDC in developing an influenza test with my former company. The regulations and red tape we had to deal with from the CDC dwarfed the corporate bureaucracy we typically dealt with.

 

[#freejame]

@Eleven I’m hoping you can give me your opinion on a question regarding constitutionality of travel bans under the Privileges and Immunities clause. Constitutionally speaking, individual states are allowed to invoke travel bans for reasons of public health and safety. However, my question is if the government were to attempt to implement a travel ban restricting interstate travel, there is no way that could be held up in court right?

My understanding is this would require either an amendment or Martial Law. For those not as versed in the constitution, the relevant portion of Article 1, Section 9 reads “The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.” I couldn’t find too much on the meaning of Invasion the public Safety, but looking through historical cases on Martial Law, it looks like this would apply to this instance. 

Any insight you could provide would be much appreciated. I’m not concerned about the prospect of Martial Law, but I spoke with many people at work today who did not know of their right to the freedom of movement and was hoping to be able to better understand if it is something that may actually become restricted. 

[darksabre]

11 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Check out @MODO Hockey on twitter for an explanation that is unwelcome here.

What's his handle? I didn't know he had a Twitter 

[Derrico]

41 minutes ago, Crosschecking said:

That's been the biggest issue for me during this whole thing. Fear and worrying will probably kill more people than the virus itself. I've been doing my best to tune out all of the literally insane conspiracy theories out there. Granted, I take the news with a grain of salt - but this is where I will listen to well-established media sources (especially since it's bad enough for mass cancellations of public events). Never did I think that we would have to deal with depicted scenarios seen in Twevle Monkeys, Outbreak, and The Last Ship. Now it's here. Claude gave his two cents on this (with good reason). Now I am convinced more than ever that God is in complete control - and yet I also know that He gave us common sense to take necessary precautions.

I sometimes wonder if society is desensitized to what’s happening because of Hollywood and the fact many have predicted or glorified this for several years.  No reason to panic but if people don’t wake up and take this ***** seriously it will literally cost many lives.  Even if you won’t die, don’t be an ***** and downplay the severity so it continues spreading (I quoted you but not directed at you).

[Eleven]

4 minutes ago, darksabre said:

What's his handle? I didn't know he had a Twitter 

Sending PM.

[Brawndo]

14 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I like the meat that Harvard has put on the bone here. It's been widely reported that the early symptoms of COVID-19 are cough, shortness of breath and fever. Which made me wonder how you could have shortness of breath and be considered a mild case. That symptom should send anyone to doctor or ER. It makes more sense that shortness of breath is an indication of more serious disease. @brawndo?

Shortness of breath and a dry cough are the symptoms which are concerning for a more serious disease state, they are definitely triggers to seek medical attention 

 

[Eleven]

10 minutes ago, #freejame said:

@Eleven I’m hoping you can give me your opinion on a question regarding constitutionality of travel bans under the Privileges and Immunities clause. Constitutionally speaking, individual states are allowed to invoke travel bans for reasons of public health and safety. However, my question is if the government were to attempt to implement a travel ban restricting interstate travel, there is no way that could be held up in court right?

My understanding is this would require either an amendment or Martial Law. For those not as versed in the constitution, the relevant portion of Article 1, Section 9 reads “The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.” I couldn’t find too much on the meaning of Invasion the public Safety, but looking through historical cases on Martial Law, it looks like this would apply to this instance. 

Any insight you could provide would be much appreciated. I’m not concerned about the prospect of Martial Law, but I spoke with many people at work today who did not know of their right to the freedom of movement and was hoping to be able to better understand if it is something that may actually become restricted. 

Interesting.  I'm in a class right now but I will try to dig into it.  I can say for certain that no state can ban people coming in from any other state.

Edited March 13, 2020 by Eleven

[Derrico]

7 hours ago, Weave said:

All I can do is my part.  If someone else wants to do something that may help propagate the virus, that’s on them.  I’ve said several times on this subject that sometimes we need to be responsible to more than ourselves.  Staying home isn’t a great sacrifice.

Fortunately for me, fishing isn’t a social activity.  I can do that this weekend abd be isolated the whole time.

Well said.  Hiking for us.

[SwampD]

23 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

The best way to sum up the goal of these actions/precautions is to have a majority of the people look back and say everyone overreacted with the precautions, because that means it worked.

Sure.

 

i have this rock. It keeps tigers away.

does it work?

you see any tigers?

 

Tigers sure are scary, though.

[FogBat]

8 minutes ago, Derrico said:

I sometimes wonder if society is desensitized to what’s happening because of Hollywood and the fact many have predicted or glorified this for several years.  No reason to panic but if people don’t wake up and take this ***** seriously it will literally cost many lives.  Even if you won’t die, don’t be an ***** and downplay the severity so it continues spreading (I quoted you but not directed at you).

Thank you! I know  I'm not the only one on here who is trying to handle this sensitive subject with as balanced an approach as possible. ATST, it goes without saying that there will be those who live on the fringes and are completely devoid of any common sense like this idiot: https://www.christianpost.com/news/tithe-paying-christians-are-protected-from-coronavirus-by-psalm-91-pastor-brian-tamaki-claims.html

Most everyone here knows that I'm a believer, but even I know that this is full of poppycock.

[Derrico]

8 hours ago, Sakman said:

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca 

The analytically minded crowd here might appreciate this one. Would be interested in thoughts on it. 

To me the two key points are around China's ability to lock down 60 million people  - not present in Western countries AND the impact of not flattening the curve on mortality rates for Covid-19 and other unrelated illnesses or accidents that don't get addressed due to consumed hospital resources. 

What a great article.  Ask my family and this is what I’ve been shouting from the rooftops for a month now.  If we mitigate the spread now it interrupts the exponential spread which could literally save hundreds of thousands of lives.  Obviously not me determining that but every virologist or other infectious disease expert had been saying for at least a month.  Makes perfect sense but I look around and just baffled and disturbed by societies response.  Articles reassuring people if they’re young and healthy they will be fine.  They’re trying to limit panic but I think this takes the opposite effect and limits people’s perceived risk.  They don’t take it serious or take necessary precautions and that is how the spread picks up exponentially.  

[steveoath]

 

Regardless of what you think of Rogan, this is worth a listen. 

Michael Osterholm is an internationally recognized expert in infectious disease epidemiology. He is Regents Professor, McKnight Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP), Distinguished Teaching Professor in the Division of Environmental Health Sciences, School of Public Health, a professor in the Technological Leadership Institute, College of Science and Engineering, and an adjunct professor in the Medical School, all at the University of Minnesota.

Full episode is, frankly, not for the faint of heart.

[The Joe Rogan Experience] #1439 - Michael Osterholm 
https://podplayer.net/?id=98491658