COVID-19

[Weave]

15 hours ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

There will always be a fringe out there element that will try to take over anything, because of their agenda.

In the end, as far as I know, nothing really happened.

The Toronto Star is a left leaning publicasion, so it is not a big surprise that they would try to find something.

NS, all of this has been a cover for what is turning out to be a fascist movement. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

15 hours ago, K-9 said:

Is the bigger surprise that they tried to find something or that something was found? 

Do “right leaning” publications have the same kind of obligation to their consumers? 

I think it's a bigger surprise that they found something.  At least initially I thought that.

And yes to your second question.  The Toronto Sun has always leaned right and they try to find stuff too.

2 hours ago, Weave said:

NS, all of this has been a cover for what is turning out to be a fascist movement. 

I have not had time to really dig into what has really happened and the background, but from what I have seen of the demonstrations very few seemed to be extremists.  I will look into this more.  I will be very sad if this has turned into a fascist movement.  Maybe they hijacked it?

[Sabel79]

On 2/1/2022 at 9:17 AM, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

 

I have not had time to really dig into what has really happened and the background, but from what I have seen of the demonstrations very few seemed to be extremists.  I will look into this more.  I will be very sad if this has turned into a fascist movement.  Maybe they hijacked it?

Dude.  They’re Nazis.  End of.

choose your friends wisely.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

34 minutes ago, Sabel79 said:

Dude.  They’re Nazis.  End of.

choose your friends wisely.

I still believe that the start of this protest was a bunch of truckers that did not like mandates and it was hijacked by extremists soon after they heard about it.

[LGR4GM]

49 minutes ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

I still believe that the start of this protest was a bunch of truckers that did not like mandates and it was hijacked by extremists soon after they heard about it.

That is the far-right playbook 

Sow enough division and fear and use that to take as much power as you can. 

[K-9]

On 2/3/2022 at 12:20 PM, LGR4GM said:

That is the far-right playbook 

Sow enough division and fear and use that to take as much power as you can. 

And perpetuate and propagate a big lie. You don’t have to be a Nazi to be a fascist, but Goebbels would be so proud of the tactics. 

[drnkirishone]

Going to be super awsome when that *****wad gets elected to a 2nd term

[Sabres Fan in NS]

It appears that I now live in a police state run by a despot dictator.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

It appears that I now live in a police state run by a despot dictator.

Don't remember where I saw it, but I read that the province of Quebec may start imposing a tax on citizens who are not vaccinated. Do you know if there is any truth to this?

[SABRES 0311]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

Don't remember where I saw it, but I read that the province of Quebec may start imposing a tax on citizens who are not vaccinated. Do you know if there is any truth to this?

I wonder how many people in Quebec actually support that and why. 

[Weave]

17 hours ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

It appears that I now live in a police state run by a despot dictator.

This is what your government is up against.  They need to react strongly.

https://stocks.apple.com/AbznAVXNtTEGI6hFkhEFNTQ

"This is about following the money. This is about stopping the financing of these illegal blockades," Minister of Finance Chrystia Freeland said Monday in describing how the government will use the law to go after those funding protests that have taken a $500 million toll daily at border crossings.

Even with traffic restored after a weeklong blockade of the vital Ambassador Bridge between Ontario and Michigan, protesters are still obstructing crossings at Emerson, Manitoba, and Pembina, North Dakota, and at Coutts, Alberta, and Sweet Grass, Montana, near where long guns, body armor and high-capacity magazines tied to a group within the protest were seized Monday, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police said.
 

This isn’t grassroots protests.  Its neo con chaos.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

16 hours ago, Hank said:

Don't remember where I saw it, but I read that the province of Quebec may start imposing a tax on citizens who are not vaccinated. Do you know if there is any truth to this?

He did say that he was going to do that, but he backed down knowing that he could not do it under our universal healthcare system.  He faced backlash saying that if he did that then he would have to tax anyone that used the system more than others.  We do not charge additional taxes for smokers that need cancer treatment, nor heart patients due to the fact that they are overweight in many cases. 

14 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I wonder how many people in Quebec actually support that and why. 

Many did, since they have been told and taught to bame the unvaccinated for all their problems and why they can't go to the movies and travel and ... 

It's all nonsense.

1 hour ago, Weave said:

This is what your government is up against.  They need to react strongly.

https://stocks.apple.com/AbznAVXNtTEGI6hFkhEFNTQ

"This is about following the money. This is about stopping the financing of these illegal blockades," Minister of Finance Chrystia Freeland said Monday in describing how the government will use the law to go after those funding protests that have taken a $500 million toll daily at border crossings.

Even with traffic restored after a weeklong blockade of the vital Ambassador Bridge between Ontario and Michigan, protesters are still obstructing crossings at Emerson, Manitoba, and Pembina, North Dakota, and at Coutts, Alberta, and Sweet Grass, Montana, near where long guns, body armor and high-capacity magazines tied to a group within the protest were seized Monday, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police said.
 

This isn’t grassroots protests.  Its neo con chaos.

If this was the case why did they wait 3 weeks to impose martial law.

The vast majority of the protesters that number in the thousands across the country are just ordinary people like you and me.  I support them 100%.  Of course there are some crazies in every crowd.  Either that or they are agent provocateurs.  The government needs a very good reason to impose this act.  The PM's father did this the only other time in Canadian history in October 1970 when a terrorist group intent on Québec independence kidnapped and murdered politicians.  In this case there is no valid reason, so the PM has made things up.  Listen to what he has called the unvaccinated.  He ran a whole election campaign based on blaming the unvaccinated for everything and now it really is making no difference if you are or are not vaccinated.

[Weave]

Martial law?  Holy hyperbole.  I expect better from you.  

[Sabres Fan in NS]

On 2/15/2022 at 11:10 AM, Weave said:

Martial law?  Holy hyperbole.  I expect better from you.  

When you expand the federal governments powers to over-ride provincial governments that's what I would call martial law.  It is a police state.  When the federal government has the right to detain you without any cause that's what I call martial law.  When the federal government orders banks to close access to bank accounts and take the funds that is martial law.  When Hitler did such things we went to war.  After the war when Stalin did such things we were outraged.  When the Chinese dictators do such things they are praised by the Canadian Prime Minister.

This will not end well.  Trudeau is fortunte we don't have a second amendment here in Canada.

[Weave]

2 hours ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

When you expand the federal governments powers to over-ride provincial governments that's what I would call martial law.  It is a police state.  When the federal government has the right to detain you without any cause that's what I call martial law.  When the federal government orders banks to close access to bank accounts and take the funds that is martial law.  When Hitler did such things we went to war.  After the war when Stalin did such things we were outraged.  When the Chinese dictators do such things they are praised by the Canadian Prime Minister.

This will not end well.  Trudeau is fortunte we don't have a second amendment here in Canada.

Its not a police state.  Its not martial law.  Its not dictatorial.  And its definitely not Stalin, Hitler level stuff.  You’re being itrational.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

16 hours ago, Weave said:

Its not a police state.  Its not martial law.  Its not dictatorial.  And its definitely not Stalin, Hitler level stuff.  You’re being itrational.

If your President enacted powers that took away your basic rights with no good reason you and everyone else would be up in arms and rioting, as is your right under the second amendment.  You have an obligation to over-through a tyranical government.  If the States don't do it then the citizens have to.  That is what the second amendment is all about.

There is no emergency that threatens national security, especially in areas where the Feds have control ... the borders are open, the airports are open, the banks are functioning normally (mostly, but now they are allowed to take clients assets at the demand of the Finance Minister), the trade routes are open ...

Fortunately half of the provinces, including Nova Scotia, have said that they want no part of this nonsense power grab.

[Weave]

I stand by my statement.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

5 hours ago, Weave said:

I stand by my statement.

I am nothing if not polite, so I respect your opinion and respectfully disagree with your take.

My take has nothing to do with right and left.  Liberal or Conservative.  I am very Liberal in my views.  Trudeau is not a real Liberal.  He is the most arrogant Prime Minister since his father.  This will be his ultimate undoing, I think, but I have thought that before with all his scandals and his antics.

I am prepared to vote Conservative in the next election for the first time in my life, but only if they come up with a good plan for change that I can get behind.  It's easy to be in opposition and attack the governing party.  It's very different to actually have an alternative plan and articulate it well.

[Weave]

You might want to do some research into convoy organizer Pat King.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

8 hours ago, Weave said:

You might want to do some research into convoy organizer Pat King.

Pat was an early organizer, but was forced out of that role by the main group.  He is dangerous.

There are far right crazies in the group.  I know that they have allowed a well known anti-semite (I don't agree with that term and how it is used these days ... many so called Christians are anti-semites and they don't even know that Jesus (PBUH) was a semite, but that's another conversation) and COVID denier speak at some of the rallies, but there is some question as to who organizes these speakers at these rallies and it seems that they may not be part of the main demonstration.

None of this changes my opinion about the convoy and that the Prime Minister has far over-reached in relation to the situation.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

On 2/16/2022 at 6:44 PM, Weave said:

Its not a police state.  Its not martial law.  Its not dictatorial.  And its definitely not Stalin, Hitler level stuff.  You’re being itrational.

In the early days when Hitler first came to power years before the war and his murderous rampage across Europe and North Africa ... this was one of the things he did to consolidate his power in a democratic Germany where he was elected.

[Weave]

51 minutes ago, The Ghost of Doohickie said:

In the early days when Hitler first came to power years before the war and his murderous rampage across Europe and North Africa ... this was one of the things he did to consolidate his power in a democratic Germany where he was elected.

Holy *****, NS.  Do you actually believe this guy has designs on creating a fascist dictatorship or something, and that he’s not just reacting to a very complicated protest that is affecting a billion dollars a day in commerce?

Im not suggesting your opinion that he’s making the wrong decisions is irrational.  I’m suggesting, no I’m stating emphatically, that your over the top projection of his intent is irrational and frankly, kinda nuts.

And that doesn’t even touch you comparing him to two of histories most genocidal maniacs when he hasn’t even hinted at violence.

FFS the guys instigating this whole thing are on The side of the fascist genocidal maniacs and the guy opposing them is the guy you are comparing to Hitler and Stalin.

The world is gone mad.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Weave

[Sabres Fan in NS]

36 minutes ago, Weave said:

Holy *****, NS.  Do you actually believe this guy has designs on creating a fascist dictatorship or something, and that he’s not just reacting to a very complicated protest that is affecting a billion dollars a day in commerce?

Im not suggesting your opinion that he’s making the wrong decisions is irrational.  I’m suggesting, no I’m stating emphatically, that your over the top projection of his intent is irrational and frankly, kinda nuts.

And that doesn’t even touch you comparing him to two of histories most genocidal maniacs when he hasn’t even hinted at violence.

FFS the guys instigating this whole thing are on The side of the fascist genocidal maniacs and the guy opposing them is the guy you are comparing to Hitler and Stalin.

The world is gone mad.

I agree with you on one thing that the world has gone mad.

How dare you say these things to me.  Where is the rational conversation.  There are many who agree with my take and many don't.  No one has attacked me like this.  I understand that this club is for unmoderated discussion, but there are still rules on engagement.

Have you listened to the Prime Minister in Parliament?  Have you read about all the scandels that are mostly about his arrogance and far reaching quest for more power.  

These protesters in Ottawa are not having much impact on the economy, except their own since they are not working.  This is not impacting the supply chain in Canada, which was a disaster even before COVID.  The borders are open.  The vast majority of truckers are working.  Trade is happening.

The Prime Minister is far outreaching the situation.  He is ordering the banks in Canada, which are independent businesses, but federally regulated, to close accounts and sieze assets of ordinary citizens who have made donations to the truckers through various means.

When the Prime Minister of Canada gives himself far reaching powers by enacting a never before used act it is very scary.  What would he do in a real emergency?  Something like the situation on the morning of 9/11.

The only other time the original version of this act (The War Measures Act ... they changed the name to make it sound less sinister) was used was by Trudeau's father in 1970 when there were terrorists bent on a civil war of Québec independence were kidnapping and murdering people.  I would call that a national emergency and the Act being invoked was justified.  Pierre Trudeau and others tried to negotiate with the terrorists and it did not work.  His son did not do anything before this last resort step.

Anyway, I like you a lot Weave and respect your opinion, so I will not continue this discussion in order to not say something that I will regret.

[Weave]

You didn’t respond to my only question.  Do you believe your Prime Minister is trying to set up fascist rule?  Is that your point?

I don’t mean to attack but I am being frank.  The extremes you are taking your characterizations to is…. much more emotional than rational I believe.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Weave

[Sabres Fan in NS]

38 minutes ago, Weave said:

You didn’t respond to my only question.  Do you believe your Prime Minister is trying to set up fascist rule?  Is that your point?

I don’t mean to attack but I am being frank.  The extremes you are taking your characterizations to is…. much more emotional than rational I believe.

No.  I don't think he is planning to setup a fascist or left wing totalitarian state officially.  

I do find his power grabs to be scary for now and the future.  Little by little we are losing our individual rights.  The PM has said that even under this Emergency Act we are allowed to peacfully protest in legal protests.  The problem is that he gets to decide what are legal protests and what are not.  He has dictated (that's the right word, IMO) that these protests in Ottawa are illegal.  The two main organizers (not that crazy guy Pat King) were arrested yesterday on mischief charges.  What a joke that is and trumped up charges.

I admit that I am frustrated and emotional about this, but also believe that I am thinking about it rationally.  It is just way over the top for the current situation in Ottawa.

The PM has said the measures enacted will be measured and directed at problem areas of the country.  Also limited in duration.  Of that, I am not convinced.  I am sure that the Emergency Act will be lifted, maybe even before it is voted on in the House of Commons, but the powers will remain.