COVID-19

[Doohicksie]

Here Texas, ICUs are full.  However the infection rate is again below 1.0 which may indicate that we're getting over the hump.  The Infection Rate in Tarrant County, where I live, is down to 0.93.  That still means hundreds of new cases each day, but the last several days we're below the 1000+ we've been seeing the last few weeks.

[North Buffalo]

1 hour ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

I won't lie, this whole "hero" phrase has grown tiresome along my cohort of coworkers, we signed up for this field and pandemics are always a possibility. Just like when I was sent overseas in the military, that was always a possibility when I enlisted. I wasn't a hero then and I'm not now. I'm just a person that works in a field that crushes your soul most days. Instead of calling us heroes, just give us free coffee and more days off, we'll call it even 😊

Had this discussion with a former marine this past weekend... hero meh just doing my job... could use some more time off and free coffee.  

[Doohicksie]

41 minutes ago, JohnC said:

People have the constitutional right to be stupid. 

Up until the point where it affects other people.  I agree with dark:  It's a long-established court finding that "you can't yell fire in a crowded theater" if there is no fire.  I think this is a similar situation:  disseminating false information to the point that it injures/kills other people should be (and I believe is) illegal.

[triumph_communes]

Hospitals were overflowing for the last few years just with the regular flu. Difference now is it’s publicized. 
 

They called them heroes to justify them working extra and risking their health for your lives. No pay, many furloughed, it was the rich who got subsidized through it all. As soon as we all got our pay, inflation immediately followed so the rich could outpace the handouts. 
 

Ivermectin actually works as a prophylactic . Hydroxychloroquine actually works as a prophylactic.  Real science came to this, albeit some of it much later than how quickly some jumped to them. Any decent scientist will show you those medicines, including some more benign ones, do actually work. Mechanistic studies to back it all up. Studies that scraped all databases for theorized structures and came to them from an unbiased standpoint. Problem is they threaten the vaccine monopoly, so they are thrown aside. Or they prove that the policy setters are bought and sold- they can somehow approve vaccines that haven’t finished Phase 3 trials, but that can’t prescribe cheap generic prophylactics that all side effects are well known and documented because…. No good reason. Don’t tell me the 0.01% won’t be able to get it because it’s out of stock - they are cheap generics and can be produce mass scale quickly. But they don’t. 
 

all they want is to build a divide between us popes. The vaccinated and the non vaccinated. And pit us against each other. The people who live in yachts haven’t had to change their lives at all. 

[darksabre]

7 minutes ago, JohnC said:

There are a lot of insane and crazy things said and promoted coming from a variety of outlets. You can't control the content of all outlets. A little common sense and intelligence goes a long way. I don't wish anyone any misfortune, especially when it comes to health. But when you do something as hazardous as taking animal vitamins you are doing it to yourself. Again, I'm not wishing anyone any bad consequences but this type of moronic behavior is self-afflicted. In this case ignorance can be deadly.  

I'm just struggling to see how what a news network like Fox is doing is any different than a cult? Inciting your followers to poison themselves is not exactly protected speech.

 

2 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Up until the point where it affects other people.  I agree with dark:  It's a long-established court finding that "you can't yell fire in a crowded theater" if there is no fire.  I think this is a similar situation:  disseminating false information to the point that it injures/kills other people should be (and I believe is) illegal.

Bingo. This is what I'm getting at. There's a "danger to the public health/order" element here that I think should be in play.

[Doohicksie]

1 minute ago, triumph_communes said:

Hospitals were overflowing for the last few years just with the regular flu. Difference now is it’s publicized. 

Source for this assertion?

 

2 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Ivermectin actually works as a prophylactic . Hydroxychloroquine actually works as a prophylactic.  Real science came to this, albeit some of it much later than how quickly some jumped to them. Any decent scientist will show you those medicines, including some more benign ones, do actually work. Mechanistic studies to back it all up. Studies that scraped all databases for theorized structures and came to them from an unbiased standpoint. Problem is they threaten the vaccine monopoly, so they are thrown aside. Or they prove that the policy setters are bought and sold- they can somehow approve vaccines that haven’t finished Phase 3 trials, but that can’t prescribe cheap generic prophylactics that all side effects are well known and documented because…. No good reason. Don’t tell me the 0.01% won’t be able to get it because it’s out of stock - they are cheap generics and can be produce mass scale quickly. But they don’t. 

Again, sources?

 

3 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

all they want is to build a divide between us popes. The vaccinated and the non vaccinated. And pit us against each other. The people who live in yachts haven’t had to change their lives at all. 

I do understand this to a point, but your assertions at the beginning of this post are, as far as I'm concerned, tinfoil hat stuff (until proven otherwise).

[Sabres Fan in NS]

6 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I'm just struggling to see how what a news network like Fox is doing is any different than a cult? Inciting your followers to poison themselves is not exactly protected speech.

 

Bingo. This is what I'm getting at. There's a "danger to the public health/order" element here that I think should be in play.

News flash ... Fox News is a cult.

[Stoner]

Quote

Influenza virus circulation remains low; therefore, increases in ILI activity are likely due to increased circulation of other respiratory viruses.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

Things are picking up in Florida and Georgia.

Define "last few years." There was very little flu this past season.

[Wyldnwoody44]

I have a colleague visiting from Mississippi currently, stopped by the hospital here, was telling me that the situation in Mississippi is pretty bad. He works ICU and hospital floors. Also the nursing short staffing is getting brutal down there and it's contributing to the giant mess that is 2021.

[SwampD]

3 hours ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

I won't lie, this whole "hero" phrase has grown tiresome along my cohort of coworkers, we signed up for this field and pandemics are always a possibility. Just like when I was sent overseas in the military, that was always a possibility when I enlisted. I wasn't a hero then and I'm not now. I'm just a person that works in a field that crushes your soul most days. Instead of calling us heroes, just give us free coffee and more days off, we'll call it even 😊

I was focused more on the horrible working conditions that people are trying to downplay, than the use of the word hero.

And then I have to read this garbage -

1 hour ago, triumph_communes said:

Hospitals were overflowing for the last few years just with the regular flu. Difference now is it’s publicized. 
 

They called them heroes to justify them working extra and risking their health for your lives. No pay, many furloughed, it was the rich who got subsidized through it all. As soon as we all got our pay, inflation immediately followed so the rich could outpace the handouts. 
 

Ivermectin actually works as a prophylactic . Hydroxychloroquine actually works as a prophylactic.  Real science came to this, albeit some of it much later than how quickly some jumped to them. Any decent scientist will show you those medicines, including some more benign ones, do actually work. Mechanistic studies to back it all up. Studies that scraped all databases for theorized structures and came to them from an unbiased standpoint. Problem is they threaten the vaccine monopoly, so they are thrown aside. Or they prove that the policy setters are bought and sold- they can somehow approve vaccines that haven’t finished Phase 3 trials, but that can’t prescribe cheap generic prophylactics that all side effects are well known and documented because…. No good reason. Don’t tell me the 0.01% won’t be able to get it because it’s out of stock - they are cheap generics and can be produce mass scale quickly. But they don’t. 
 

all they want is to build a divide between us popes. The vaccinated and the non vaccinated. And pit us against each other. The people who live in yachts haven’t had to change their lives at all. 

 

[Cascade Youth]

1 hour ago, triumph_communes said:

Hospitals were overflowing for the last few years just with the regular flu. Difference now is it’s publicized. 
 

They called them heroes to justify them working extra and risking their health for your lives. No pay, many furloughed, it was the rich who got subsidized through it all. As soon as we all got our pay, inflation immediately followed so the rich could outpace the handouts. 
 

Ivermectin actually works as a prophylactic . Hydroxychloroquine actually works as a prophylactic.  Real science came to this, albeit some of it much later than how quickly some jumped to them. Any decent scientist will show you those medicines, including some more benign ones, do actually work. Mechanistic studies to back it all up. Studies that scraped all databases for theorized structures and came to them from an unbiased standpoint. Problem is they threaten the vaccine monopoly, so they are thrown aside. Or they prove that the policy setters are bought and sold- they can somehow approve vaccines that haven’t finished Phase 3 trials, but that can’t prescribe cheap generic prophylactics that all side effects are well known and documented because…. No good reason. Don’t tell me the 0.01% won’t be able to get it because it’s out of stock - they are cheap generics and can be produce mass scale quickly. But they don’t. 
 

all they want is to build a divide between us popes. The vaccinated and the non vaccinated. And pit us against each other. The people who live in yachts haven’t had to change their lives at all. 

Just stop.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, darksabre said:

I'm just struggling to see how what a news network like Fox is doing is any different than a cult? Inciting your followers to poison themselves is not exactly protected speech.

 

 

Apparently it is. 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Up until the point where it affects other people.  I agree with dark:  It's a long-established court finding that "you can't yell fire in a crowded theater" if there is no fire.  I think this is a similar situation:  disseminating false information to the point that it injures/kills other people should be (and I believe is) illegal.

Disseminating false information is not necessarily illegal. However, it can be if the claim is made by a doctor. If someone is so ignorant to act on false statements that are so absurdly outlandish I don't see where it is a crime. What it means is that stupid behavior can be deadly to the practitioner. If a parent gave these animal vitamins to a child in order to protect a child from the virus that would be a crime associated with negligence. But if an adult person is ignorant enough to believe something so ridiculous and act on it I don't see where it is a crime. 

 

[Doohicksie]

25 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Apparently it is. 

Actually I don't think it is, but let's see how it plays out. 

[drnkirishone]

7 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Disseminating false information is not necessarily illegal. However, it can be if the claim is made by a doctor. If someone is so ignorant to act on false statements that are so absurdly outlandish I don't see where it is a crime. What it means is that stupid behavior can be deadly to the practitioner. If a parent gave these animal vitamins to a child in order to protect a child from the virus that would be a crime associated with negligence. But if an adult person is ignorant enough to believe something so ridiculous and act on it I don't see where it is a crime. 

 

the good ole days of let the buyer beware.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, drnkirishone said:

the good ole days of let the buyer beware.

It's really sad that some people are so out of touch with the real world and allow themselves to be influenced with such nonsense. What's even more frightening is not that some people can be swayed to their detriment to the point where their life is endangered but it is the number of people who fall in that ignorant category. (I am not using the word ignorant to gratuitously mock anyone.) It's the size of this group that falls in this gullible category. That worries me a lot. Reasoning and facts simply don't penetrate this hardcore faction. 

[triumph_communes]

1 hour ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

I have a colleague visiting from Mississippi currently, stopped by the hospital here, was telling me that the situation in Mississippi is pretty bad. He works ICU and hospital floors. Also the nursing short staffing is getting brutal down there and it's contributing to the giant mess that is 2021.

Rural hospitals are hit hard half because traveling nurse jobs to the cities became so lucrative the locals all are leaving for 4x pay.  Same going on here in rural Kentucky- the nurses are all making bank elsewhere. 

[triumph_communes]

3 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Source for this assertion?

 

Again, sources?

 

I do understand this to a point, but your assertions at the beginning of this post are, as far as I'm concerned, tinfoil hat stuff (until proven otherwise).

I don’t have the TWIV podcast # off the top of my head that went through the specific studies. It’s searchable.  But TWIV is about as far from tin foil as you’re going to get on the subject. They don’t outright say the tinfoil hat: oh look hydroxychloroquine works they were right after all, there’s too much cognitive dissonance there, but they do give it a good pause after listing off the genetics the mechanistic studies pointed to.  You can say I give it a tinfoil hat bow on top, but the source is solid. 

Edited August 23, 2021 by triumph_communes

[triumph_communes]

3 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Source for this assertion?

 

Again, sources?

 

I do understand this to a point, but your assertions at the beginning of this post are, as far as I'm concerned, tinfoil hat stuff (until proven otherwise).

For the flu- just search. Top search for 2017-2018 all the cases treated in tents all across the country:

 

https://news.yahoo.com/hospitals-overwhelmed-flu-patients-treating-192834539.html

 

[SwampD]

19 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

For the flu- just search. Top search for 2017-2018 all the cases treated in tents all across the country:

 

https://news.yahoo.com/hospitals-overwhelmed-flu-patients-treating-192834539.html

 

This shows nothing. I was in an ER that year for another reason. There were beds in the hallway. It was really bad. The same hospital for this built 8 more ICUs (from 4 to 12) and the entire hospital went to Covid only.

To imply that the only difference is news coverage is moronic, or it’s agenda driven crap. 

[Wyldnwoody44]

31 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Rural hospitals are hit hard half because traveling nurse jobs to the cities became so lucrative the locals all are leaving for 4x pay.  Same going on here in rural Kentucky- the nurses are all making bank elsewhere. 

I know some nurses that are making more than me right now, it's crazy, but good for them, get it while they can. Once the pandemic is over those jobs will dry up 

[drnkirishone]

51 minutes ago, JohnC said:

It's really sad that some people are so out of touch with the real world and allow themselves to be influenced with such nonsense. What's even more frightening is not that some people can be swayed to their detriment to the point where their life is endangered but it is the number of people who fall in that ignorant category. (I am not using the word ignorant to gratuitously mock anyone.) It's the size of this group that falls in this gullible category. That worries me a lot. Reasoning and facts simply don't penetrate this hardcore faction. 

traveling salesmen (snake oil sellers) have been peddling dangerous goods for a long time. Companies also have peddled deadly goods under the guise of being healthy for a long time. What stops it is regulation and punishing people/companies that do so. Shills have a history of being punished as well and fox news is certainly shilling for the snake oil sellers

[John Tucker]

At least I no longer need to be worried about getting the flu virus.... Whew.  That was close!

[darksabre]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Disseminating false information is not necessarily illegal. However, it can be if the claim is made by a doctor. If someone is so ignorant to act on false statements that are so absurdly outlandish I don't see where it is a crime. What it means is that stupid behavior can be deadly to the practitioner. If a parent gave these animal vitamins to a child in order to protect a child from the virus that would be a crime associated with negligence. But if an adult person is ignorant enough to believe something so ridiculous and act on it I don't see where it is a crime. 

 

I think the catch here is if the dangerous ignorance of enough people starts leading to harm amongst the rest of the community. Case in point is the unvaccinated who are filling hospital beds that other people need? What if a small rural hospital has to treat a bunch of morons who drink poison and it overwhelms their facility/staff?

This stuff has consequences outside of the individual. 

[triumph_communes]

43 minutes ago, SwampD said:

This shows nothing. I was in an ER that year for another reason. There were beds in the hallway. It was really bad. The same hospital for this built 8 more ICUs (from 4 to 12) and the entire hospital went to Covid only.

To imply that the only difference is news coverage is moronic, or it’s agenda driven crap. 

Using your individual anecdote has even littler value that an AP news article with anecdotes from across the country, but okay go straight for the kill shot and show your true colors.