COVID-19

[JujuFish]

3 hours ago, fiftyone said:

If they went through the same testing concurrently, they would have been FDA approved and not emergency use. No?

Pfizer is nearing FDA approval.  Do you really think that will change people's minds?

[Huckleberry]

2 hours ago, SwampD said:

Good question. I don’t know. Maybe time is a factor and they just aren’t fully approved yet.

The FDA is a good thing. Like, really good thing. Like, sets the standard around the world kinda thing.

Pretty sure we don’t want to go back to bone shavings in the coconut, and missing digits in the sausage.

maybe 40 years ago, but the world has caught up and leaped over the USA a long time ago.   Working together with certain countries might be a more accurate description.

But even the trust level even between European and USA government instances is at an all time low.     
I think the FAA was the last bastion that could say this and they ***** up really bad with the 737 max.

[Brawndo]

50 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

maybe 40 years ago, but the world has caught up and leaped over the USA a long time ago.   Working together with certain countries might be a more accurate description.

But even the trust level even between European and USA government instances is at an all time low.     
I think the FAA was the last bastion that could say this and they ***** up really bad with the 737 max.

I can think of another reason why trust between The US and Europe is so low

10 hours ago, Doohickie said:

That was a situation where one in a million who received it got blood clots, but there was a common demographic (women under 50 years old).  After some investigation, the CDC allowed vaccinations to continue with an advisory for women in that demographic.  My son got J&J, no unusual or serious side effects.

15-20% of Covid Patients are diagnosed with blood clots 

10 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I'm not.  That doubt has bled into the popular culture from anti-vaxxers.  I've gotten vaccines all my life, from the childhood ones to tetanus shots to yearly flu shots and I've never had a concern with the long term effects.  There is nothing about the Covid vaccine to indicate to me it is any different.  It's all just anti-vaxxer concerns.

Most serious adverse side effects from vaccines are seen within 8 weeks of administration 

10 hours ago, Doohickie said:

If I recall correctly it was on the order of 6 people out of 6 million vaccinated at that time.

I think that's interesting that in the U.S. they are adamant that for multidose vaccines they be the same vaccine but in Canada they allow (maybe even urge) two different ones.

That was more of a take what you can get approach. 
 

The US began Phase III Trials of Covid Vaccines on July 27th, 2020 meaning they have over a year’s worth of data, they are safe and the best way out of this mess. 
 

 

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, JujuFish said:

Pfizer is nearing FDA approval.  Do you really think that will change people's minds?

I can hope.

5 hours ago, darksabre said:

The fact that so much of the work had already been done on coronaviruses in general absolutely helped.

If this situation had been some other newer, weirder virus, maybe we're still waiting on a vaccine. Right?

Luck definitely played its part.

Coronaviruses don't appear out of nowhere just like man didn't appear out of nowhere.

[Doohicksie]

Rolling Stone:  Texas Venue Called ‘Hitler’ for Hosting Vax-Only Jason Isbell Concert

A friend of mine is at this concert as I type this.

[darksabre]

2 hours ago, Eleven said:

I can hope.

Coronaviruses don't appear out of nowhere just like man didn't appear out of nowhere.

What is the point you're trying to make 

[miles]

 

 

i got my 2nd shot on march 12th. i have developed a side effect that has not gone away. i get these bumps on my skin that look like very large mosquito bites. they really hurt when i touch it. i never seem to get more than 1 at a time, and they seem to last a few days or so and then they go away for a while and come back randomly in a different spot. i never had this prior to the vaccine. they dont have any gross liquid or anything inside of them, just a hard bump that goes away on its own. they dont really bother me enough to go to the skin doctor, and with it being so hard to get an appointment quickly, there is no guarantee that when they happen when my appointment rolls around.

i found online this is listed as a very rare side effect of the vaccine.

with that said, i am still glad i got the vaccine and having the sense of truly being protected...vs a $0.01 cent paper mask that really isnt offering me any real protection.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Mike Honcho

[Doohicksie]

On 8/13/2021 at 10:37 AM, darksabre said:

I disagree. A lot of this business exists entirely outside the conservative propaganda sphere. You should read up on the links between wellness influencers and QAnon if you want to feel real hopeless.

All aspects of the same ecosystem.

[Huckleberry]

We will see what happens, but Israel that has most of its population fully vaccinated and is doing a 3rd dose already for the elderly and weak is in the midst of a 4th covid wave.    So how much are these vaccines still worth it ? at some point we should do what should have done at the start, short pain and shut the world down 3 weeks.

Now we end up paying the big pharma billions for vaccines that in the end will still fail.

Also hate to say it, but seems Trump was right and the virus did escape from a lab.

[Cascade Youth]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

We will see what happens, but Israel that has most of its population fully vaccinated and is doing a 3rd dose already for the elderly and weak is in the midst of a 4th covid wave.    So how much are these vaccines still worth it ? at some point we should do what should have done at the start, short pain and shut the world down 3 weeks.

Now we end up paying the big pharma billions for vaccines that in the end will still fail.

Also hate to say it, but seems Trump was right and the virus did escape from a lab.

There is so much wrong with this post I don’t even know where to begin…

- preventing infection is not the primary goal of vaccines

- in what universe is it practical to “shut the world down for three weeks”?

- what evidence exists that a three week global shutdown would even have worked?

- the vaccines are doing the opposite of failing and it’s highly concerning that a human brain is capable of concluding otherwise 

- the public-private partnership that led to a fast-tracked vaccine is a singular achievement in human history

- Putting aside the “T Word,” you need to provide evidence if you’re going to spread the view that e virus came from a lab 

Just a horrible and depressingly ignorant take all around honestly.  Humans are careening toward mass extinction because of flawed thinking like this.  
 

Sorry for the rant and sorry it’s coming across as disrespectful - I like your hockey takes - but please, it’s so exhausting to endure all of this misinformation on a daily basis.  It’s just so depressing.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Cascade Youth

[Doohicksie]

2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

We will see what happens, but Israel that has most of its population fully vaccinated and is doing a 3rd dose already for the elderly and weak is in the midst of a 4th covid wave.    So how much are these vaccines still worth it ? at some point we should do what should have done at the start, short pain and shut the world down 3 weeks.

Now we end up paying the big pharma billions for vaccines that in the end will still fail.

Also hate to say it, but seems Trump was right and the virus did escape from a lab.

1.  A shot is a small price to pay for the protection it offers, and the Covid vaccines are far more effective than many other vaccines.  A third dose to the immunocompromised is more about their condition than the vaccine.  Considering the novelty of this virus and how it infects humans, the fact that the world's pharmas have developed several effective vaccines and rolled them out in less than a year is nothing less than miraculous to me.

2.  https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/07/19/1016005828/new-data-leads-to-rethinking-once-more-where-the-pandemic-actually-began

Quote

"I do think transmission from another species, without a lab escape, is the most likely scenario by a long shot," says evolutionary biologist Michael Worobey at the University of Arizona.

Worobey is one of the scientists who earlier said it could have been leaked from the lab (and signed a statement to that effect).

Edited August 15, 2021 by Doohickie

[Huckleberry]

3 hours ago, Cascade Youth said:

There is so much wrong with this post I don’t even know where to begin…

- preventing infection is not the primary goal of vaccines

- in what universe is it practical to “shut the world down for three weeks”?

- what evidence exists that a three week global shutdown would even have worked?

- the vaccines are doing the opposite of failing and it’s highly concerning that a human brain is capable of concluding otherwise 

- the public-private partnership that led to a fast-tracked vaccine is a singular achievement in human history

- Putting aside the “T Word,” you need to provide evidence if you’re going to spread the view that e virus came from a lab 

Just a horrible and depressingly ignorant take all around honestly.  Humans are careening toward mass extinction because of flawed thinking like this.  
 

Sorry for the rant and sorry it’s coming across as disrespectful - I like your hockey takes - but please, it’s so exhausting to endure all of this misinformation on a daily basis.  It’s just so depressing.

They are failing against what was promised though.

They told us if you got the vaccine you would not be able to transmit it to others <-- wrong
They told us if you got the vaccine you would not get sick <-- wrong
They told us if you got the vaccine people would be far less likely to die <-- wrong ( read up on Delta and Colombian variants causing havoc)

So yeah the vaccine failed in my view.

As it coming from a lab, those are statements the WHO just made, but also say hard to prove with China not allowing them with enough access.   They actually said they still haven't found prove from which animals it jumped, because the genome of the virus doesn't seem to show it jumping from animal to animal, but seems more created from a lab <-- recent WHO statement.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Huckleberry

[drnkirishone]

I find when someone shows a statement and follows it up with a dramatic "wrong" they are themselves generally mistaken with what they are saying.

[Doohicksie]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

They are failing against what was promised though.

They told us if you got the vaccine you would not be able to transmit it to others <-- wrong
They told us if you got the vaccine you would not get sick <-- wrong
They told us if you got the vaccine people would be far less likely to die <-- wrong ( read up on Delta and Colombian variants causing havoc)

So yeah the vaccine failed in my view.

Point by point:

1. Agree with your point.  However, vaccinated people are contagious for a shorter period so it still reduces transmission.

2. The vaccine is not effective with all people and yes, some people get full-blown Covid after vaccination.  However, the number of illnesses requiring hospitalization among vaccinated people is a small percentage compared to the unvaccinated (like, 99% of hospitalizations in the U.S. are unvaccinated, where roughly half the people are fully vaccinated). 

The vaccines are most effective against the systemic effects of Covid (i.e., once it gets into your blood) because the antibodies are blood borne.  Prior to the Delta variant that was fine because earlier variants were not as effective in infecting mucous membranes.  The Delta variant is more effective in mucous membranes which is why it's producing more infections among the vaccinated, but even though people are getting sick from the Delta variant, it's causing mostly respiratory and not internal systemic (blood borne) infection.

3. People with the vaccine *ARE* far less likely to die.  It's something like 1% of people with Covid infections die.  But among those deaths, only 1% are vaccinated people.  So yes, vaccines do make you far less likely to die.

[Cascade Youth]

14 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

They are failing against what was promised though.

They told us if you got the vaccine you would not be able to transmit it to others <-- wrong
They told us if you got the vaccine you would not get sick <-- wrong
They told us if you got the vaccine people would be far less likely to die <-- wrong ( read up on Delta and Colombian variants causing havoc)

So yeah the vaccine failed in my view.

As it coming from a lab, those are statements the WHO just made, but also say hard to prove with China not allowing them with enough access.   They actually said they still haven't found prove from which animals it jumped, because the genome of the virus doesn't seem to show it jumping from animal to animal, but seems more created from a lab <-- recent WHO statement.

None of those things were told to you.  And the death rate from Delta for vaccinated people is pretty close to zero.  Please stop getting your information from Facebook.

[Huckleberry]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

Point by point:

1. Agree with your point.  However, vaccinated people are contagious for a shorter period so it still reduces transmission.

2. The vaccine is not effective with all people and yes, some people get full-blown Covid after vaccination.  However, the number of illnesses requiring hospitalization among vaccinated people is a small percentage compared to the unvaccinated (like, 99% of hospitalizations in the U.S. are unvaccinated, where roughly half the people are fully vaccinated). 

The vaccines are most effective against the systemic effects of Covid (i.e., once it gets into your blood) because the antibodies are blood borne.  Prior to the Delta variant that was fine because earlier variants were not as effective in infecting mucous membranes.  The Delta variant is more effective in mucous membranes which is why it's producing more infections among the vaccinated, but even though people are getting sick from the Delta variant, it's causing mostly respiratory and not internal systemic (blood borne) infection.

3. People with the vaccine *ARE* far less likely to die.  It's something like 1% of people with Covid infections die.  But among those deaths, only 1% are vaccinated people.  So yes, vaccines do make you far less likely to die.

Far less likely ? the colombian variant just hit a nursing home a town over from me.    All died so there goes your 1%.  All were fully vaccinated.

Just now, Cascade Youth said:

None of those things were told to you.  And the death rate from Delta for vaccinated people is pretty close to zero.  Please stop getting your information from Facebook.

Im not on facebook ....

[Cascade Youth]

9 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Far less likely ? the colombian variant just hit a nursing home a town over from me.    All died so there goes your 1%.  All were fully vaccinated.

Im not on facebook ....

Six people in Belgium, definitely tragic, sounds like most had pre-existing conditions, still well under 1%.

[SwampD]

26 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

They are failing against what was promised though.

They told us if you got the vaccine you would not be able to transmit it to others <-- wrong
They told us if you got the vaccine you would not get sick <-- wrong
They told us if you got the vaccine people would be far less likely to die <-- wrong ( read up on Delta and Colombian variants causing havoc)

So yeah the vaccine failed in my view.

As it coming from a lab, those are statements the WHO just made, but also say hard to prove with China not allowing them with enough access.   They actually said they still haven't found prove from which animals it jumped, because the genome of the virus doesn't seem to show it jumping from animal to animal, but seems more created from a lab <-- recent WHO statement.

They have always stated that variants could become resistant to the vaccine. Always. That’s why it was important for everyone to get vaccinated. But people are blockheads.

Thanks, blockheads.

[Doohicksie]

 

10 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Far less likely ? the colombian variant just hit a nursing home a town over from me.    All died so there goes your 1%.  All were fully vaccinated.

This is flat out incorrect.  PLEASE stop peddling misinformation.  Per Reuters:

Seven residents of Belgian nursing home die after outbreak of B.1.621 lineage of COVID-19

Quote

 

Seven residents of a nursing home in Belgium have died after being infected with a variant of the coronavirus first detected in Colombia despite being fully vaccinated, the virology team that conducted tests said on Friday.

The seven people who died at the nursing home in the Belgian town of Zaventem, near Brussels, were all in their 80s or 90s, and some of them were already in a poor physical condition, said Marc Van Ranst, a virologist at the University of Leuven which conducted tests on the virus found at the nursing home.

At the nursing home in Zaventem, 21 residents were infected with the variant along with several members of staff, Van Ranst told Reuters. The infected staff experienced only mild symptoms.

 

So no, NOT 100%.  If you have different, more recent, information, please provide a link.

The point is, the scientific community developed several effective vaccines in record time, but the virus is mutating and humans are stupidly ignoring measures (not only vaccines but masking, social distancing, etc.) that would reduce the impact of the mutations.  No measure is 100% effective in eliminating the virus but there are several measures that are effective in reducing transmission, but populations by and large are not taking full advantage of them.

[Stoner]

4 hours ago, Cascade Youth said:

There is so much wrong with this post I don’t even know where to begin…

- preventing infection is not the primary goal of vaccines

- in what universe is it practical to “shut the world down for three weeks”?

- what evidence exists that a three week global shutdown would even have worked?

- the vaccines are doing the opposite of failing and it’s highly concerning that a human brain is capable of concluding otherwise 

- the public-private partnership that led to a fast-tracked vaccine is a singular achievement in human history

- Putting aside the “T Word,” you need to provide evidence if you’re going to spread the view that e virus came from a lab 

Just a horrible and depressingly ignorant take all around honestly.  Humans are careening toward mass extinction because of flawed thinking like this.  
 

Sorry for the rant and sorry it’s coming across as disrespectful - I like your hockey takes - but please, it’s so exhausting to endure all of this misinformation on a daily basis.  It’s just so depressing.

 

[Doohicksie]

You don't think vaccines are effective?

Disclosure:  Alabama has about 6X the population of Vermont, but even if you multiply the numbers for Vermont by 6, the point still holds.

[Huckleberry]

34 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

 

This is flat out incorrect.  PLEASE stop peddling misinformation.  Per Reuters:

Seven residents of Belgian nursing home die after outbreak of B.1.621 lineage of COVID-19

So no, NOT 100%.  If you have different, more recent, information, please provide a link.

The point is, the scientific community developed several effective vaccines in record time, but the virus is mutating and humans are stupidly ignoring measures (not only vaccines but masking, social distancing, etc.) that would reduce the impact of the mutations.  No measure is 100% effective in eliminating the virus but there are several measures that are effective in reducing transmission, but populations by and large are not taking full advantage of them.

they were up to 15 last time I heard, those 7 were first few days.  

44 minutes ago, Cascade Youth said:

Six people in Belgium, definitely tragic, sounds like most had pre-existing conditions, still well under 1%.

lol no , its 15/21 now, that is not 1%.

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

They told us if you got the vaccine you would not be able to transmit it to others <-- wrong
They told us if you got the vaccine you would not get sick <-- wrong
They told us if you got the vaccine people would be far less likely to die <-- wrong ( read up on Delta and Colombian variants causing havoc)

I don't have any idea what the Belgian media / doctors / etc. are saying but neither of the first two were said (by anyone reliable) here in the US, and the third is correct.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Eleven

[Doohicksie]

11 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

they were up to 15 last time I heard, those 7 were first few days.  

lol no , its 15/21 now, that is not 1%.

of an isolated, highly vulnerable population, and very small sample size.

Note that it said the staff suffered only minor cases.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Full disclosure ... I am not yet vaccinated and am back and forth on it.

I am NOT a rabid anti-vaxxer.  I do NOT wear a tinfoil hat (well mostly not).  I am a guy that is hesitant because I know people that have had disasterous health outcomes after vaccinations.  I know these people very well.  We are close.  I have my doublts as to the long-term efficacy of these vaccines.  I can get it easily any time I want it here in NS, but I am waiting a bit more to see what happens.  We seem to have approximately 12 to 13% of the eligible population here in NS that are thinking the same thing.  Those numbers have been consistant for several weeks now.  Very few people are getting their first shot here now and mostly people are getting their second shots.  I do know some people that have had their first shot and are waiting for their second and a few that have said they won't get the second after some pretty bad reactions to the first shot.  Anyway ...

I am NOT a villian, so I do not like being villified.  Here in Canada and maybe in the States too I am being blamed for speading the Delta.  I am not.  I do not have COVID.  I have not been anywhere that I could have contacted COVID where there would not be some sign of it.  I very, very rarely leave my own little paradise here on the beautiful coast of NS.  When I do it is for as brief a time as possible and as safely as possible (double masking ...).