COVID-19

[That Aud Smell]

42 minutes ago, fiftyone said:

That's certainly true for some portion of the population. For a good portion of it though, you're a little thirsty but have no chance of dying of thirst.

We need only imagine a scenario in which the young, healthy portion of society can (most likely) endure their thirst and therefore take a pass on available water, but, in so doing, will imperil more vulnerable populations through that individual choice.

[fiftyone]

3 minutes ago, Eleven said:

No analogy is perfect, and you have exposed the imperfection in mine:  thirst is not transmittable the way disease is.  Ok.  Still, it's an emergency.  Let's just do what we can for now, which is taking one of the numerous vaccines that have been developed, and work on getting even better later.  Perfect should not get in the way of good.

And like I said upthread, I got the vaccine. But I can certainly see the argument to be made on the other side. I don't see it as black and white as some people portray it. 

Anyway, good discussion. The numbers are declining rapidly. Hopefully we'll be out of the woods soon. 

Just now, That Aud Smell said:

We need only imagine a scenario in which the young, healthy portion of society can (most likely) endure their thirst and therefore take a pass on available water, but, in so doing, will imperil more vulnerable populations through that individual choice.

Again though -- if you've received the vaccine, isn't this not the case?

[That Aud Smell]

13 minutes ago, fiftyone said:

Again though -- if you've received the vaccine, isn't this not the case?

Not entirely.

And, the thing is: Viruses are tricky buggers. With every transmission, they (can) change. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.

[LTS]

16 hours ago, Curt said:

I agree that most everyone would ditch the mask if they thought it was no longer needed.  I don’t think anyone actually likes them.  That doesn’t mean that people are on the verge of freaking out.

To me it seems that people on average are much less uneasy and much less panicked than they were a year ago.

I just don’t see the overall mood of the country(s) as at max tension.  Things seemed to have calmed down a lot.

Where are there actual gas shortages?  Have you seen any gas stations with sold out signs?  I haven’t.  Heard a couple people at work mention this today but that was the first I’d heard about it.

Panic buying and grocery store shortages were commonplace for a few months last year.  That stuff isn’t happening now.

Didnt know anything about a chip shortage until I just googled it.

Am I living in a bubble???  Has this stuff been affecting the day to day lives of a lot of you people out there???

Yes, I think most would ditch it.  I am saying that the comments about "why do I still have to wear this thing" are becoming more common around me.  I also acknowledge that it's likely different elsewhere, but in my circle, the angst over it is definitely growing.

 

14 hours ago, rickshaw said:

I think vaccines are awesome. I roll up my sleeve yearly for the flu vaccine and I did for Covid for sure. 
As for masks, nobody really enjoys them but to me it’s no big deal. You see I work in the public and people are disgusting. So I like that they’re being worn. Where I live, Kelowna BC, masks are still mandated but it will end one day. Until then, I wear mine and do it knowing they probably don’t offer much protection but they offer some. And if it can keep them vulnerable people I’m happy to do it. 

But here’s some food for thought. The flu vaccine is based on what happens in Australia as they get it first. This year, the flu in Canada had a reported total of 66 people getting it. 66! Normally it’s 30000-40000 annually. Australia handled Covid extremely well and masks were worn too. Is it a coincidence that the flu was so low?  No. People were distanced, masks were worn and people finally stopped being soooo disgusting and started cleaning their hands. Shopping carts cleaned regularly etc. These all play a part. 
To me, these factors show that all theses measures help stop the spread.

And going forward. I’m totally gonna mask up when I’m inside a shopping mall or store when the winter comes along. I didn’t get sick at all in over a year. I think the measures taken surely helped with that. Asians have been doing it forever. I believe it’s just common courtesy to mask up of YOU are out and not feeling well. I can’t tell you how many sick people would come into my work and say, “I’m so sick” yet buying some beer was so important to put me in danger of catching your illness. 
 

I can’t wait until this is all over but I do hope people will consider their habits going forward when feeling unwell. A bit of a ramble I know. But I just really want people to think of others. Here’s a good point to make the radicals think

I've eaten in restaurants where I've seen mice crawling around the floor, in the US. I've eaten in other countries that do not have the same food safety laws, etc. Hell, in the US we allow additives in our food that are likely more dangerous than what is on your server's hands.  For what it's worth, my first job was as a dishwasher and I was absolutely told to half-cycle the dishes and let them go back out being slightly unclean because the cooks would put food over those spots. 🙂

14 hours ago, Doohickie said:

The auto industry thought Covid would kill sales so they cut back on their orders.  That rippled through the industry and production lines were shut down.  It turns out they were wrong and it resulted in a pinch in the supply worldwide.  It absolutely was a result of Covid.

There's also been a massive increase in computer sales, networking equipment, and a lot of other items that all use chipsets.  Semiconductor supply was impacted because plants were shutdown at the same time.  This is what happened to steel, lumber, etc. 

The most common conversation in my job these days is around supply chain management of networking equipment.  We're being pushed to innovate on our product to drive more sales but we honestly have no idea if we'll have equipment to sell.  Our company is straight up buying (panic buying?) millions of dollars in equipment to ensure we can sell.  Most estimations are that it will get much, much worse before it begins to get better.

5 hours ago, #freejame said:

There has also been massive issues at terminals and ports throughout the country causing delays in transit times. You wouldn’t believe the amount of auto parts flying in from overseas because they can’t get in via ocean.

Indeed.  We have equipment that comes from Taiwan.  What used to be 6-8 week lead time is now 18-20 week and growing.  We've begun investigating the air freight over ocean freight but damn is it expensive.  That's only going to drive up our prices to customers or drive down our margins which means people in our company will not see increases any time soon or we need to let people go.  It's all an amazing balancing act.  The economy is so fragile.

[Weave]

The Yankees are experiencing a COVID outbreak even though the team was vaccinated. And Bill Maher has COVID.  He was vaccinated too.  I don’t understand the CDC statement re: masks.  Masks are intended to protect others.  Seems to me that until we get a critical mass vaccinated the masks are still needed.

 

[JujuFish]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

The Yankees are experiencing a COVID outbreak even though the team was vaccinated. And Bill Maher has COVID.  He was vaccinated too.  I don’t understand the CDC statement re: masks.  Masks are intended to protect others.  Seems to me that until we get a critical mass vaccinated the masks are still needed.

 

Seems to me that it's an attempt to incentivize people to vaccinate.

[Thorner]

Even got a little Bison 

[That Aud Smell]

16 hours ago, Weave said:

The Yankees are experiencing a COVID outbreak even though the team was vaccinated. And Bill Maher has COVID.  He was vaccinated too.  I don’t understand the CDC statement re: masks.  Masks are intended to protect others.  Seems to me that until we get a critical mass vaccinated the masks are still needed.

 

When I read about the Yankees, the details seemed unresolved in terms of how many of the cases were true “break through” cases.

As for masking: I recall the initial mantra that masks are intended to protect others. I think subsequent data suggested that masks protect the wearer as well.

And as @JujuFish suggests, the policy may partly be intended to encourage vaccination.

[LTS]

Following up on my CDC comments about them dropping the mask policy and its pressures..

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/shopping/2021/05/17/target-mask-policy-retailers-not-requiring-masks-fully-vaccinated-cdc/5111030001/

Wal-mart started

Target
Starbucks
Trader Joes
And more...

They will all still have to comply with local health guidelines, but the stores dropping the mandate will increase the pressure on officials.  Just like the holdouts who waited to require masks felt pressure, so too will those who hold out on dropping it.

I was also evaluating a trip to an out of state amusement park.  They've dropped their mask policy for vaccinated customers. No proof is required, it's the honor system. Which, to me, says... only those people who want to wear a mask will wear one.

 

[Eleven]

16 minutes ago, LTS said:

Following up on my CDC comments about them dropping the mask policy and its pressures..

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/shopping/2021/05/17/target-mask-policy-retailers-not-requiring-masks-fully-vaccinated-cdc/5111030001/

Wal-mart started

Target
Starbucks
Trader Joes
And more...

They will all still have to comply with local health guidelines, but the stores dropping the mandate will increase the pressure on officials.  Just like the holdouts who waited to require masks felt pressure, so too will those who hold out on dropping it.

I was also evaluating a trip to an out of state amusement park.  They've dropped their mask policy for vaccinated customers. No proof is required, it's the honor system. Which, to me, says... only those people who want to wear a mask will wear one.

 

Yeah, we got stupid already.

[I-90 W]

On 5/14/2021 at 3:23 PM, Weave said:

The Yankees are experiencing a COVID outbreak even though the team was vaccinated. And Bill Maher has COVID.  He was vaccinated too.  I don’t understand the CDC statement re: masks.  Masks are intended to protect others.  Seems to me that until we get a critical mass vaccinated the masks are still needed.

 

Gleyber Torres had COVID, later was vaccinated, and then got COVID a second time. A great reminder that the vaccine essentially keeps people off ventilators and out of the hospital, but we can definitely still get it and pass it to others.

[nucci]

On 5/14/2021 at 9:02 AM, fiftyone said:

Again, devil's advocate. I've been vaccinated but can certainly see the other side of the coin.

Do you not think the rigorous and extensive process for developing and testing a vaccine under normal circumstances is necessary and important?

I don't think many people who are concerned are specifically worried about short-term issues with the vaccine - there's been enough shots given to know that there are very few issues within a few months. But from my understanding, the development process including clinical trials for a non-emergency use vaccine can last 10+ years. Combined with the fact that this was not done here and the fact that the technology used in the Pfizer/Moderna is new and relatively untested, and you can certainly see why some would be hesitant of the unknown well down the line.

I think for some people it's the emegency use of a relatively untested vaccine technology that is concerning - not always the thickheadedness. 

wasn't this how other vaccines were produced...under emergency conditions...polio for example?

[Eleven]

Just had lunch with a friend, whose four-year-old had a cold last week, and said four-year-old does not distinguish between "cold" and "COVID."  So the kid has been running around telling anyone who will listen that he had COVID last week, forcing his father do to a lot of damage control, to my amusement.

[Doohicksie]

At the peak in our county, 1 person in 500 was catching Covid every day.  Now it's more like 1 in 10,000 each day seems to be slowly decaying.  This is in Texas where there's a large anti-mask contingent, including up to the top of government.  The one thing the state was good with was that when the vaccine became available, they mobilized multi-faceted vaccination rollout- through the county public health departments, private health providers, pharmacies, etc.  At this point the vaccine is readily available for anyone who wants it with little or no waiting.  To date, 40% of Texans have had at least one dose and 32% have completed their vaccination regimen.  The rate of vaccination has slowed but people are still getting the shot.

The state government tried to "stay out of the way" to the greatest extent possible.  I think with the initial onset that resulted in preventable deaths, but now it means that the government is staying out of the way in terms of businesses that want to continue mandated mask use.  The result is that many businesses and their customers are still masking up, although the recent CDC guidance have more businesses going maskless.

This past weekend my wife joined me for lunch at a restaurant for the first time since the pandemic began.  We ate on the patio of the restaurant, but it was a first.  And last night I met some friends for a beer at a local bar.

I still wear a mask most places though, if having mask does not interfere with what I'm doing (like if I'm shopping).  I'm still cautious.  The CDC has enough data to make the call they did, but as fewer people mask up and the vaxed and un-vaxed mingle, I could see where guidance would evolve, and possibly tighten up again.

[fiftyone]

43 minutes ago, nucci said:

wasn't this how other vaccines were produced...under emergency conditions...polio for example?

I honestly don't know, it very well could have been. I'm not sure that changes my perspective though. Sure, you have to rush things to get the vaccine for those who are at serious risk. For those who aren't, though, it may be something to think about especially after those at risk have been taken care of.

[Doohicksie]

1 minute ago, fiftyone said:

I honestly don't know, it very well could have been. I'm not sure that changes my perspective though. Sure, you have to rush things to get the vaccine for those who are at serious risk. For those who aren't, though, it may be something to think about especially after those at risk have been taken care of.

We're kind of that point now in the U.S. I believe.  Everyone who was clamoring for the vaccine now has it, and at least here locally it's readily available.  Anyone in a decent sized Texas city who hasn't been vaccinated is now due to their preference, not availability of vaccine.

[miles]

Nj is still requiring masks. However i read ny plans to stop the requirement starting Wednesday, so im sure the nj governor will do the same thing a couple days later. It seems like he follows ny governor like a lost puppy

[LTS]

3 hours ago, Mike Honcho said:

Nj is still requiring masks. However i read ny plans to stop the requirement starting Wednesday, so im sure the nj governor will do the same thing a couple days later. It seems like he follows ny governor like a lost puppy

Interesting.  Can't wait for the great NY debate to begin!

 

[darksabre]

36 minutes ago, LTS said:

Interesting.  Can't wait for the great NY debate to begin!

 

It's already going in the Twitter comments. There are a lot of people who seem concerned about unvaxxed people going maskless and I guess I don't understand the hubbub?

The pandemic has been largely combatted not by some people doing as much as possible, but by many people doing the absolute bare minimum. It was enough. So for those of us getting vaxxed, we're doing the bare minimum, and the results will be the results. It's been this way the whole pandemic. The unvaxxed people going without masks have likely been acting recklessly the whole time, and they were never not going to. There's really nothing that could have been done about them. 

[dudacek]

8 hours ago, Doohickie said:

At this point the vaccine is readily available for anyone who wants it with little or no waiting.  To date, 40% of Texans have had at least one dose and 32% have completed their vaccination regimen.  The rate of vaccination has slowed but people are still getting the shot.

I find this shocking.

In British Columbia, we didn’t start vaccinating the general population (under 70 and not high-risk, or working in front-line care) until April.

We have now vaccinated 55 percent of our eligible population with a first dose, although only about 5% have 2 doses (because we have priorized 1st doses and stretched the time between shots to the limit.)

People have been lining up to get them as fast as they are being made available.

That 60 per cent of your population has yet to get a first shot despite little to no waiting times disturbs my faith in humanity.

[miles]

35 minutes ago, dudacek said:

That 60 per cent of your population has yet to get a first shot despite little to no waiting times disturbs my faith in humanity.

I dont understand it myself. people in india are dying in record numbers and the us have people who wont take the shot. Im not talking about medical reasons, but for political or whatever reason. dont people want this to end already. i know i have had enough.

 

Im honestly not in any real rush to drop the mask requirements other than because i dont like fact that we have to have when in nj its been required since day 1 and yet we have constantly had the highest numbers in the country. i think realistically masks aren't doing much. I know its conflicting of me, but thats because im conflicted on it. The nervous part of me thinks i need it, the logical part thinks they really don't do much

Edited May 18, 2021 by Mike Honcho

[Doohicksie]

52 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I find this shocking.

Yeah, it kind of is.

[Doohicksie]

Texas is ranked 43rd.  Bleck.

And yet our case numbers are steadily falling.

[darksabre]

54 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I find this shocking.

In British Columbia, we didn’t start vaccinating the general population (under 70 and not high-risk, or working in front-line care) until April.

We have now vaccinated 55 percent of our eligible population with a first dose, although only about 5% have 2 doses (because we have priorized 1st doses and stretched the time between shots to the limit.)

People have been lining up to get them as fast as they are being made available.

That 60 per cent of your population has yet to get a first shot despite little to no waiting times disturbs my faith in humanity.

America's addiction to the myth of rugged individualism will eventually be its downfall. 

[Doohicksie]

Over 10% of the population of Texas has had Covid, so maybe that helps toward herd immunity?  I dunno.

2 minutes ago, darksabre said:

America's addiction to the myth of rugged individualism will eventually be its downfall. 

Oh yeah.  Texas loves that *****.