Ducky Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 1 hour ago, LGR4GM said: Whenever anyone argues vaccine effectiveness I just ask them one simple question... Got Polio? Or tetanus, smallpox, chickenpox, diptheria, measles, mumps, whooping cough, etc... 1
That Aud Smell Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 Cole Beasley is apparently looking to take some heat off of his QB
Scottysabres Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 1 hour ago, PASabreFan said: That would have been a good slogan. Still could be. WE with a heart around it, ME encircled and struck through. While I am currently between the first and second Moderna shots, I find the entire mind set of shaming over vaccinations completely repugnant. Seriously, this society is so F'd up, for example, at family conversations the same die hard "my body, my choice" voices are demanding other family members get the vaccination and actually espouse it should be forcibly done by the government if necessary. I just sit back, shake my head and chuckle at it. The hypocrisy of it all. 1
That Aud Smell Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 1 hour ago, LGR4GM said: Whenever anyone argues vaccine effectiveness I just ask them one simple question... Got Polio? 10 minutes ago, Ducky said: Or tetanus, smallpox, chickenpox, diptheria, measles, mumps, whooping cough, etc... 1
Sabres Fan in NS Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 COVID has really taken off here in NS during this Ramadan month. It's terrible and very scary. We are isolating in a very nice spot to do that.
LGR4GM Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 41 minutes ago, Scottysabres said: While I am currently between the first and second Moderna shots, I find the entire mind set of shaming over vaccinations completely repugnant. Seriously, this society is so F'd up, for example, at family conversations the same die hard "my body, my choice" voices are demanding other family members get the vaccination and actually espouse it should be forcibly done by the government if necessary. I just sit back, shake my head and chuckle at it. The hypocrisy of it all. It's not your body your choice because let's say a hypothetical you isn't vaccinated and you pass it on... you now have taken your body and forced that choice onto someone else. Better yet what happens if Covid mutates because it has enough vectors to keep spreading, not your body or choice anymore as you spread that mutation around starting this entire GD thing over again. You in this necessary is a hypothetical person, not you specifically Scotty. 2
miles Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: It's not your body your choice because let's say a hypothetical you isn't vaccinated and you pass it on... you now have taken your body and forced that choice onto someone else. Better yet what happens if Covid mutates because it has enough vectors to keep spreading, not your body or choice anymore as you spread that mutation around starting this entire GD thing over again. You in this necessary is a hypothetical person, not you specifically Scotty. That argument was the same exact Argument i was using with my wife before we got vaccine. she was going out with her sister, who wasn't doing safe stuff. She kept saying that i am choosing to stay home and she is comfortable with doing whatever. I kept telling her that by her doing it, she is taking my choice away. If she gets it, i will get it. I never won the argument because at the end of the day she does what she wants. Even her own mother told her she was wrong. That we have been married a long time and that i was really concerned and it was selfish of her to not even consider my feelings. Thankfully when she asked her mother's opinion i was there to hear it. Didn't change anything though. Then when she started coming down with a cold, i told her to get a covid test to be sure and she was mad i didn't drive with her. Im like why would I go with you in a really tiny enclosed place when im high risk and you aren't. I maybe over paranoid but she was too careless Edited May 13, 2021 by Mike Honcho 1 1
fiftyone Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 21 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: It's not your body your choice because let's say a hypothetical you isn't vaccinated and you pass it on... you now have taken your body and forced that choice onto someone else. Better yet what happens if Covid mutates because it has enough vectors to keep spreading, not your body or choice anymore as you spread that mutation around starting this entire GD thing over again. You in this necessary is a hypothetical person, not you specifically Scotty. To play devils advocate here -- is it not true (honestly am asking, don't know) that the vaccine doesn't stop anyone from getting the virus or even passing it on? It just prevents you from dying, essentially? I believe that's what i've read. Assuming that's true, doesn't that change the thought process of vaccinated vs not? Once you've been vaccinated, you will (probably) no longer die from the virus. But you can still get it and pass it along, whether that be from another vaccinated person or an unvaccinated person?
SwampD Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, fiftyone said: To play devils advocate here -- is it not true (honestly am asking, don't know) that the vaccine doesn't stop anyone from getting the virus or even passing it on? It just prevents you from dying, essentially? I believe that's what i've read. Assuming that's true, doesn't that change the thought process of vaccinated vs not? Once you've been vaccinated, you will (probably) no longer die from the virus. But you can still get it and pass it along, whether that be from another vaccinated person or an unvaccinated person? No. That is not true.
fiftyone Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, SwampD said: No. That is not true. So you can't get it if you have had the vaccine?
LGR4GM Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, fiftyone said: So you can't get it if you have had the vaccine? The chances of you getting or passing it on after you have been vaccinated appear low but the science is undecided on that. The passing on part is a key factors as we have decent evidence at this point even if you get Covid after vaccination you have far better health outcomes.
Scottysabres Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 31 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: It's not your body your choice because let's say a hypothetical you isn't vaccinated and you pass it on... you now have taken your body and forced that choice onto someone else. Better yet what happens if Covid mutates because it has enough vectors to keep spreading, not your body or choice anymore as you spread that mutation around starting this entire GD thing over again. You in this necessary is a hypothetical person, not you specifically Scotty. This is not an actual vaccine in the sense that it is a preventative measure from the virus itself, at least, not yet in any event. So to insert it in to a bundle, such as the polio vaccination is premature. But, it has proven an effective profilictate to the impact if contracted. From the CDC's own site, posted merely 3 days ago: "Although COVID-19 vaccines are effective at keeping you from getting sick, scientists are still learning how well vaccines prevent you from spreading the virus that causes COVID-19 to others, even if you do not have symptoms. Early data show that vaccines help keep people with no symptoms from spreading COVID-19, but we are learning more as more people get vaccinated. We’re also still learning how long COVID-19 vaccines protect people. For these reasons, people who have been fully vaccinated against COVID-19 should keep taking precautions until we know more, like wearing a mask in indoor public places, avoiding large indoor gatherings, and washing your hands often. Vaccinated people do not need to wear masks outside except in crowds." So, as you can see, they openly state they are unsure if it affects the contiguous side of the subject. Also, if you've been vaccinated, by their own admission, you can still contract covid 19. Therefore, prudence lends itself to getting vaccinated, for the good of the many. But in the end, it's still an individual personal choice.
fiftyone Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 Just now, LGR4GM said: The chances of you getting or passing it on after you have been vaccinated appear low but the science is undecided on that. The passing on part is a key factors as we have decent evidence at this point even if you get Covid after vaccination you have far better health outcomes. Both of these more or less are what I have read/heard as well. And with that said, it does kind of go back to my question earlier. If you've protected yourself from death and a good chance of even getting it at all, it seems like the level of concern for vaccinated people coming into contact with unvaccinated people should be pretty low? Still a small chance you get it, and will not die, after coming into contact with anyone - vaccinated or not? Like you said, there is a whole lot more that we don't know about this than we do know. Especially with the new variants part -- that seems like a complete guessing game at this point.
Doohicksie Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Scottysabres said: the same die hard "my body, my choice" voices are demanding other family members get the vaccination and actually espouse it should be forcibly done by the government if necessary. Your body, your choice ends at the point where you can kill someone by coughing on them.
Scottysabres Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 Just now, Doohickie said: Your body, your choice ends at the point where you can kill someone by coughing on them. I see, so, your pro forced vaccinations then? Even if that entails breaking down your door, physically tackling your 18 yr old daughter, your wife, in their own home, to accomplish the deed?
Doohicksie Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 47 minutes ago, fiftyone said: To play devils advocate here -- is it not true (honestly am asking, don't know) that the vaccine doesn't stop anyone from getting the virus or even passing it on? It just prevents you from dying, essentially? I believe that's what i've read. Vaccinated people are less likely to contract the disease. If they do contract it, they are less likely to need hospitalization and are infectious for a shorter period of time. But yes you can still get it, which is why I still mask up even though I got my second Moderna shot in March. If I get it I don't want to pass it on.
Doohicksie Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 35 minutes ago, Scottysabres said: But in the end, it's still an individual personal choice with societal consequences. fify
#freejame Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 CDC says vaccinated people don’t need to wear masks inside. Wonder how long it takes for states and businesses to follow.
Scottysabres Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 Just now, Doohickie said: fify Sure, there are consequences for every action a living entity does.
Doohicksie Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Scottysabres said: I see, so, your pro forced vaccinations then? Even if that entails breaking down your door, physically tackling your 18 yr old daughter, your wife, in their own home, to accomplish the deed? Don't be ridiculous.
SwampD Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, Scottysabres said: I see, so, your pro forced vaccinations then? Even if that entails breaking down your door, physically tackling your 18 yr old daughter, your wife, in their own home, to accomplish the deed? Ah, the old “take it to the extreme” argument. 1
Scottysabres Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, SwampD said: Ah, the old “take it to the extreme” argument. I hardly see an argument here, if the government decrees vaccinations mandatory, and roughly 30 to 50 million adult citizens with children refuse to comply, what do you see as the likely outcome given the urgency of the situation, considering a mandatory scenario? Do you honestly believe they are all going to do so willingly, peaceably? And if they don't, then what? 8 minutes ago, Doohickie said: Don't be ridiculous. Is it so ridiculous? History says its unlikely, but not impossible.
SwampD Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Scottysabres said: I hardly see an argument here, if the government decrees vaccinations mandatory, and roughly 30 to 50 million adult citizens with children refuse to comply, what do you see as the likely outcome given the urgency of the situation, considering a mandatory scenario? Do you honestly believe they are all going to do so willingly, peaceably? And if they don't, then what? Is it so ridiculous? History says its unlikely, but not impossible. Not let them go to school, daycare,... like they already do with other vaccines. Not sure why the jump right to goon squads. 1
Doohicksie Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Scottysabres said: Is it so ridiculous? History says its unlikely, but not impossible. Yes, you're being ridiculous.
bg17 Posted May 13, 2021 Report Posted May 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, Scottysabres said: I hardly see an argument here, if the government decrees vaccinations mandatory, and roughly 30 to 50 million adult citizens with children refuse to comply, what do you see as the likely outcome given the urgency of the situation, considering a mandatory scenario? Do you honestly believe they are all going to do so willingly, peaceably? And if they don't, then what? Some here might be too young to know Elian Gonzalez.
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