LTS Posted May 6, 2021 Report Posted May 6, 2021 10 minutes ago, #freejame said: https://www.foxnews.com/sports/bills-gm-brandon-beane-says-consider-cutting-unvaccinated-players.amp I'm not surprised by this. Companies have to manage risk. People don't want to hear about it but those are facts. imagine having to pay Jeff Skinner $9M while he's out with COVID because he wouldn't get vaccinated. Our company adopted a policy of paying field techs while they were out with COVID. It was a nice gesture given that they were our front line and still entering people's homes, etc. At this point they can all be vaccinated, so they are debating how long do they continue that policy. These techs aren't well paid athletes but we have our fair share who are anti-vaccine. Got my second shot this morning. Just waiting for any impacts now! They are closing down some of the URMC sites because no one is showing up so there's no point in staffing it any longer. Both times I went I just walked in, got my shot, observed for 15, walked out. Not once was there a line. 2
Weave Posted May 6, 2021 Report Posted May 6, 2021 6 minutes ago, LTS said: I'm not surprised by this. Companies have to manage risk. People don't want to hear about it but those are facts. imagine having to pay Jeff Skinner $9M while he's out with COVID because he wouldn't get vaccinated. Our company adopted a policy of paying field techs while they were out with COVID. It was a nice gesture given that they were our front line and still entering people's homes, etc. At this point they can all be vaccinated, so they are debating how long do they continue that policy. These techs aren't well paid athletes but we have our fair share who are anti-vaccine. Got my second shot this morning. Just waiting for any impacts now! They are closing down some of the URMC sites because no one is showing up so there's no point in staffing it any longer. Both times I went I just walked in, got my shot, observed for 15, walked out. Not once was there a line. My employer is reverse incentivizing (unintentional, I am sure). You get to come back to the office when you are vaccinated. LOL I work in the southern tier. Was vacinated last month. Walked in, filled out a questionairre, got stuck, waiting 15 minutes, and gone. No waiting. At the time of my first dose I ouldn't find a vaccine in my home county beuase they were being claimed so fast. Demand definitley dropped off earlier is some areas than others.
miles Posted May 6, 2021 Report Posted May 6, 2021 I dont want to sound like a jerk, but if people dont want to get vaccine, its their choice. Maybe its time to open up fully with no mask required. Lets see how many change their minds 1
That Aud Smell Posted May 6, 2021 Report Posted May 6, 2021 4 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said: I dont want to sound like a jerk, but if people dont want to get vaccine, its their choice. Refusing a vaccination without some good cause (like a real medical issue that makes getting the vaccination a bad idea) will help ensure that the virus becomes endemic and possibly mutates into a variant that will defeat existing vaccinations. Refusing a vaccination is maybe not sounding like a jerk, but it's acting like one.
nfreeman Posted May 6, 2021 Report Posted May 6, 2021 The question of whether people should be allowed back to work/school/sports events/stores/other public settings without being vaccinated is interesting. Private companies will most likely be able to handle this however they choose. I would expect most, but not all, will require vaccinations. Public schools and government offices though? There will be plenty of political pressure both ways. I would be shocked if NYC public schools or government offices require the vaccine in the same way they require the measles/TB/other vaccines.
nfreeman Posted May 6, 2021 Report Posted May 6, 2021 Just now, That Aud Smell said: Refusing a vaccination without some good cause (like a real medical issue that makes getting the vaccination a bad idea) will help ensure that the virus becomes endemic and possibly mutates into a variant that will defeat existing vaccinations. Refusing a vaccination is maybe not sounding like a jerk, but it's acting like one. This view presupposes that "the science is settled" and that the vaccine has been proven to be effective and not dangerous. That isn't really the case -- e.g. when I (and I would expect most here) got vaccinated, I received a disclaimer handout at the vaccination site from NYS stating that the vaccine has not been approved by the FDA.
LabattBlue Posted May 6, 2021 Report Posted May 6, 2021 5 hours ago, nfreeman said: I wonder if you'll ever be able to have a conversation with someone who disagrees with you without getting hysterical? Hahaha. That is never going to happen. 1
Brawndo Posted May 6, 2021 Report Posted May 6, 2021 1 hour ago, nfreeman said: This view presupposes that "the science is settled" and that the vaccine has been proven to be effective and not dangerous. That isn't really the case -- e.g. when I (and I would expect most here) got vaccinated, I received a disclaimer handout at the vaccination site from NYS stating that the vaccine has not been approved by the FDA. Pfizer is expected to ask for Full FDA Approval by the End of May. If granted Their Version of the Covid Vaccine would be moved into the same category as MMRs, Varicella, Polio and others. This would allow private companies, government agencies and schools to possibly mandate the vaccine. I imagine Moderna and J&J will follow closely
That Aud Smell Posted May 6, 2021 Report Posted May 6, 2021 1 hour ago, nfreeman said: This view presupposes that "the science is settled" and that the vaccine has been proven to be effective and not dangerous. That isn't really the case -- e.g. when I (and I would expect most here) got vaccinated, I received a disclaimer handout at the vaccination site from NYS stating that the vaccine has not been approved by the FDA. Nah. Not really. I find this line of thinking to be less than intellectually honest. But, hey: A big shoutout to all the statistics and logical guys and gals out there. And here's to a world where COVID-19 is ever with us. Viruses like polio and small pox must be bummed that they're confined to a super secure CSC lab location in Atlanta. 1
SwampD Posted May 6, 2021 Report Posted May 6, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, nfreeman said: This view presupposes that "the science is settled" and that the vaccine has been proven to be effective and not dangerous. That isn't really the case -- e.g. when I (and I would expect most here) got vaccinated, I received a disclaimer handout at the vaccination site from NYS stating that the vaccine has not been approved by the FDA. That’s not “science being settled.” That’s “government regulation not being settled.” I don’t even know who you are anymore.😂 As someone who’s been to several NASCAR races, they wear being a dumb redneck like a badge of honor (even those that aren’t.) They’re okay with you calling them that. I would also guess that their vaccination rates fall in line with pretty much everyone else,... they just might not admit it. Edited May 6, 2021 by SwampD
nfreeman Posted May 6, 2021 Report Posted May 6, 2021 1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said: Nah. Not really. I find this line of thinking to be less than intellectually honest. But, hey: A big shoutout to all the statistics and logical guys and gals out there. And here's to a world where COVID-19 is ever with us. Viruses like polio and small pox must be bummed that they're confined to a super secure CSC lab location in Atlanta. You seem to have concluded (before the FDA has) that the vaccine is indeed safe and effective, and, regrettably, that those who have concerns in this regard are either foolish or dishonest. Leaving aside the snark, why specifically are you so confident? Certainly it is the case that no one alive has had the vaccine in his/her body for more than 6 months or so. It’s also worth noting that the Moderna vaccine (and one other — I think Pfizer but not sure) is based on an entirely new, mRNA-based approach to innoculation. Does one have to be a charlatan or a dumb redneck to harbor concerns?
Curt Posted May 6, 2021 Report Posted May 6, 2021 7 hours ago, nfreeman said: Well, NYC isn't exactly NASCAR country, and vaccine rates here are below the national average, so you might want to check your facts before assuming it's all just dumb rednecks who aren't getting vaccinated. 7 hours ago, PASabreFan said: Are you assuming NASCAR fans are dumb rednecks? Most of my family are rural rednecks of varying intelligence, and they are pretty much all getting vaccinated. 2
Doohicksie Posted May 7, 2021 Report Posted May 7, 2021 8 hours ago, Mike Honcho said: I dont want to sound like a jerk, but if people dont want to get vaccine, its their choice. You sound like a jerk. An ignorant one at that. 1
Doohicksie Posted May 7, 2021 Report Posted May 7, 2021 4 hours ago, nfreeman said: Does one have to be a charlatan or a dumb redneck to harbor concerns? Yes. That or a fool.
Eleven Posted May 7, 2021 Report Posted May 7, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, nfreeman said: Well, NYC isn't exactly NASCAR country, and vaccine rates here are below the national average, so you might want to check your facts before assuming it's all just dumb rednecks who aren't getting vaccinated. You really need some introspection if this was your takeaway. And most of the rest of your comments would have been removed BY YOU as opaquely political. Edited May 7, 2021 by Eleven 2
LGR4GM Posted May 7, 2021 Report Posted May 7, 2021 I didn't expect a response. Get called out, pretend it didn't happen. Seriously did Tucker write a strategery guide? 1
North Buffalo Posted May 7, 2021 Report Posted May 7, 2021 9 hours ago, Mike Honcho said: I dont want to sound like a jerk, but if people dont want to get vaccine, its their choice. Maybe its time to open up fully with no mask required. Lets see how many change their minds Interesting idea but I bet a lot of places still keep mask policy in place.
North Buffalo Posted May 7, 2021 Report Posted May 7, 2021 5 hours ago, nfreeman said: You seem to have concluded (before the FDA has) that the vaccine is indeed safe and effective, and, regrettably, that those who have concerns in this regard are either foolish or dishonest. Leaving aside the snark, why specifically are you so confident? Certainly it is the case that no one alive has had the vaccine in his/her body for more than 6 months or so. It’s also worth noting that the Moderna vaccine (and one other — I think Pfizer but not sure) is based on an entirely new, mRNA-based approach to innoculation. Does one have to be a charlatan or a dumb redneck to harbor concerns? Concerns sure but not to the point of not getting vaxed. PS I had covid last spring and been vaxed. Granted I am front line employee... but you have to do a risk analysis and for most people unless you have a reaction on the first vax or are severely immune compromised gotta say it doesnt make sense to avoid getting vaxed. PS for those who think this is solely a right wing issue there are plenty on far left that are just as out there on this. Not impugning anything on you.... just saying there are folks that are just paranoid by government and the medical industry... 2
JujuFish Posted May 7, 2021 Report Posted May 7, 2021 5 hours ago, North Buffalo said: PS for those who think this is solely a right wing issue there are plenty on far left that are just as out there on this. Not impugning anything on you.... just saying there are folks that are just paranoid by government and the medical industry... My roommate's mom is left wing and has been eligible for a long time due to age and health issues, but is surprisingly anti-vax. The only argument I have ever gotten into with her was over vaccines. Fortunately, I found out yesterday that she's agreed to get the J&J shot today.
JujuFish Posted May 7, 2021 Report Posted May 7, 2021 11 hours ago, nfreeman said: You seem to have concluded (before the FDA has) that the vaccine is indeed safe and effective, and, regrettably, that those who have concerns in this regard are either foolish or dishonest. Leaving aside the snark, why specifically are you so confident? Certainly it is the case that no one alive has had the vaccine in his/her body for more than 6 months or so. It’s also worth noting that the Moderna vaccine (and one other — I think Pfizer but not sure) is based on an entirely new, mRNA-based approach to innoculation. Does one have to be a charlatan or a dumb redneck to harbor concerns? Initial trials started over a year ago, not 6 months. The vaccines have been proven to be safe and effective in the short term, and are on track for full approval faster than any prior vaccine. We have millions of points of data for them, as well. More than any vaccine has ever had prior to approval. And while the two mRNA vaccines are the first ever of their kind to be given authorization, they are not the first ever to be tested. The tech has been built on for years, and prior mRNA vaccines have been trialed over the past few years. We have more understanding of them than your news exposure wants you to believe, because we have to make everything political in this country these days. 1
miles Posted May 7, 2021 Report Posted May 7, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, Doohickie said: You sound like a jerk. An ignorant one at that. at what point do we lift restrictions, or do we keep them forever now? it has to come at some point. you shouldnt need to incentivize a lifesaving vaccine. that should be enough incentive. me being jerk and ignorant aside, at what point do you think? also, my comments are not for people with medical reasons to not get it. Edited May 7, 2021 by Mike Honcho
nfreeman Posted May 7, 2021 Report Posted May 7, 2021 1 hour ago, JujuFish said: Initial trials started over a year ago, not 6 months. The vaccines have been proven to be safe and effective in the short term, and are on track for full approval faster than any prior vaccine. We have millions of points of data for them, as well. More than any vaccine has ever had prior to approval. And while the two mRNA vaccines are the first ever of their kind to be given authorization, they are not the first ever to be tested. The tech has been built on for years, and prior mRNA vaccines have been trialed over the past few years. We have more understanding of them than your news exposure wants you to believe, because we have to make everything political in this country these days. This is a fair response, although you have no idea what "your news exposure" I've had on this point, and that type of comment contributes to the silly, destructive and unnecessary politicization of this issue in this discussion. (For the record, the mRNA point I made came from reading an article in the Economist, a center-left publication that is far from anti-vax.) Having said that, the facts remain that these are new vaccines that have not been around long enough for their long term effects to be known and that the mRNA vaccines are built on new technology that, as you note, has not been used previously on any kind of scale. My wife and I are vaccinated and our kids are in the process, so as @North Buffalo describes we have decided that on balance it makes sense to do so, but I understand why some people have reservations.
miles Posted May 7, 2021 Report Posted May 7, 2021 https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html Quote Researchers have been studying and working with mRNA vaccines for decades. Interest has grown in these vaccines because they can be developed in a laboratory using readily available materials. This means the process can be standardized and scaled up, making vaccine development faster than traditional methods of making vaccines.
nucci Posted May 7, 2021 Report Posted May 7, 2021 The people that say they won't get the vaccine because they don't know what's in it and are concerned for their health are waiting in the drive thru at McDonalds smoking a cigarette 1 2 1
miles Posted May 7, 2021 Report Posted May 7, 2021 (edited) my mother was a really long hold out. she didnt want to get it, even though she was very high risk (previous cancer) very elder, and not in good health. she spoke to her doctor, who told her that he was shocked she didnt get it, and said she needed to get it right away. she got it 2 days later, and she is ready to get on with her life. i keep telling her she has 6 weeks to go, she only got her first dose of 2 (Moderna) i understand that people dont want to get it, and again, that is their choice, but i dont want fear to win out over science when it comes to re-opening. i have all the compassion in the world for people who are nervous. i didnt go out for 1 year, and now that i have the vaccine (fully), i am starting to go out. I still wear a mask (3 masks actually), and i try to stay away from people, but i realize, it can't be like this forever. i also see the numbers in NJ are half what they were just 1 month ago. part of it is people are outside more, and part is the vaccine. Edited May 7, 2021 by Mike Honcho 1
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