COVID-19

[pi2000]

1 hour ago, Indabuff said:

I considered not posting about this in the event someone here is going through a similar situation (or has gone through it).  I don't want to discourage anyone from feeling optimistic as each scenario is different but it doesn't look favorable for my mother.  She's been on a ventilator for 20 days now.  Although nothing appears to be getting worse nothing appears to be getting better either.  I suppose that should likely be considered a win but it sure as hell doesn't feel like it.  The worst part is the heartbreaking emotion of not being able to comfort a person in their time of need who has comforted you your entire life.  If I've taken anything away from this it's not to underestimate what we're up against.  I haven't had time (or the heart) to read posts here in a while but for anyone who is going through this or already has stay strong and hopefully everything works out.  If you've lost someone I'm sorry, stay strong and I hope you find peace.

Sorry to hear this.   Hoping for the best for your mother 🙏.  Stay strong, friend.

[nfreeman]

Hang in there @Indabuff.  We are pulling for her.  

[Brawndo]

On 2/27/2021 at 9:30 AM, LTS said:

But no one really calls it the flu vaccine anymore right?  It's the flu shot because it hopefully prevents the strains they believe would be dominant that particular year. Unlike a vaccine that would actually prevent it right?  With all the variants in COVID, will we end up in that scenario?  I know we don't know yet, but I keep waiting for them to find a variant that the current vaccines don't work against.

Let's be honest.  If you are asymptomatic how would you ever know you had anything? 

I am curious, and I am asking this not to dismiss your point but for understanding it better, have more people been infected with COVID this year than are normally infected with influenza in a given year?  Or, what I am asking is that while you are saying 10 times the flu deaths is it also a 10x death rate or just quantity of deaths?

I stopped looking at statistics a long time ago.  I knew the rate was higher, but expected it to go down as more people were infected with COVID.

The CDC, National Institute of Health and a vast majority of the Medical Community still refer to it as Influenza Vaccine. 

[LTS]

17 hours ago, Brawndo said:

The CDC, National Institute of Health and a vast majority of the Medical Community still refer to it as Influenza Vaccine. 

Okay, circles I don't spin in.  But, does it make sense? Not even trying to be snarky.  I think if you call something a vaccine it evokes images of absolute prevention and when it fails to prevent people will use that as claims of its being ineffective, useless, or worse.

Not a huge deal by any means, just a curious thought on using the word.

[SDS]

How long has this discussion been so… reasonable and adult-like? I tuned out long ago when people were still sniping at each other.

It’s really nice to see people exchanging helpful information in good faith. ❤️ 

[LTS]

3 hours ago, SDS said:

How long has this discussion been so… reasonable and adult-like? I tuned out long ago when people were still sniping at each other.

It’s really nice to see people exchanging helpful information in good faith. ❤️ 

There's hope for us yet?

[Stoner]

3 hours ago, SDS said:

How long has this discussion been so… reasonable and adult-like? I tuned out long ago when people were still sniping at each other.

It’s really nice to see people exchanging helpful information in good faith. ❤️ 

I can tell you the turning point.

[drnkirishone]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

I can tell you the turning point.

Can you? Or does it violate board rules?

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

I can tell you the turning point.

When I stopped posting on SS for a month?  😛

(I doubt it since no one seemed to notice.)

[Brawndo]

15 hours ago, LTS said:

Okay, circles I don't spin in.  But, does it make sense? Not even trying to be snarky.  I think if you call something a vaccine it evokes images of absolute prevention and when it fails to prevent people will use that as claims of its being ineffective, useless, or worse.

Not a huge deal by any means, just a curious thought on using the word.

They are called vaccines, because they are indeed vaccines based on medical journals and Merriman Webster definitions 

Vaccines are only effective when a large enough percentage of the population receives them to achieve herd immunity. If there are no more hosts to infect the disease rates of transmission drop dramatically. If not enough people get it, the disease spreads. The best example of this is the influenza vaccine, generally only 50% of the eligible population receives it, that’s why at times it appears ineffective. Studies have shown even in years that the vaccine is not as effective, the mortality and morbidity rates are lower in patients who contract influenza and have had the vaccine. 
 

The population you mentioned generally are already skeptical about vaccines. They will believe Dr Andrew Weil over Dr Anthony Fauci, they will believe Moms Against Vaccines Facebook Groups over the CDC. 
 

Absolute prevention is a flawed concept because no vaccine is 100% effective one hundred percent of the time.

Polio is the closest at 99%, however there were close to 500 cases last year worldwide. 

There have been measles outbreaks in the US recently as rates of children getting MMR Vax have declined in some populations.  Measles and Rubella have efficacy rates of over 90%, Mumps is only around 71% which has lead to outbreaks amongst a certain sports league a few years ago. 
 

 

 

[LTS]

8 hours ago, Brawndo said:

They are called vaccines, because they are indeed vaccines based on medical journals and Merriman Webster definitions 

Vaccines are only effective when a large enough percentage of the population receives them to achieve herd immunity. If there are no more hosts to infect the disease rates of transmission drop dramatically. If not enough people get it, the disease spreads. The best example of this is the influenza vaccine, generally only 50% of the eligible population receives it, that’s why at times it appears ineffective. Studies have shown even in years that the vaccine is not as effective, the mortality and morbidity rates are lower in patients who contract influenza and have had the vaccine. 
 

The population you mentioned generally are already skeptical about vaccines. They will believe Dr Andrew Weil over Dr Anthony Fauci, they will believe Moms Against Vaccines Facebook Groups over the CDC. 
 

Absolute prevention is a flawed concept because no vaccine is 100% effective one hundred percent of the time.

Polio is the closest at 99%, however there were close to 500 cases last year worldwide. 

There have been measles outbreaks in the US recently as rates of children getting MMR Vax have declined in some populations.  Measles and Rubella have efficacy rates of over 90%, Mumps is only around 71% which has lead to outbreaks amongst a certain sports league a few years ago. 
 

 

 

I appreciate the response.  A few more questions..

If the purpose of a vaccine is to achieve herd immunity then wouldn't it also be possible for that to happen naturally?  What is the percentage of the population that needs to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity? It seems contradictory to say that herd immunity can be achieved naturally and yet also acknowledge that something that is still highly vaccinated against, such as MMR.  You note the effectiveness rates, so clearly mumps has a 29% chance of being ineffective, rubella and measles less than 10%.  It seems that you also point out though that outbreaks are occurring not because of an ineffective vaccine so much as those who chose to not be vaccinated.  This, of course, makes sense, but it seems to also work against the concept of herd immunity.

At least with the flu shot I can speak anecdotally. I had it twice in my life and both times I ended up with the flu (diagnosed) that year. For whatever reason I've never had it otherwise. Hard to say why, but each of us is unique. I certainly do not believe the shot caused the flu, only that it failed, twice, to prevent it.  I also didn't get the flu immediately after the shot, it was at least a month or more later.

I'm not an anti-vaxxer by any means. My kids are vaccinated.  I am just skeptical of some claims when my personal experience has indicated otherwise.

As for how people become anti-vaxxers.. I think the lunatics will believe anything.  But there is a segment of the population, with experiences like mine, who would tend to think critically about using the term vaccine for something that is acknowledged to be questionably effective (compared to MMR for example).

 

[Doohicksie]

On 3/1/2021 at 7:17 AM, LTS said:

I think if you call something a vaccine it evokes images of absolute prevention and when it fails to prevent people will use that as claims of its being ineffective, useless, or worse.

Vaccines have never, ever been 100% effective.  They can be effective in stopping a virus within a population, but they've never been 100% effective among 100% of individuals.  Flu vaccines are only 40-60% effective.  It does appear that Covid vaccines, while not 100% effective in preventing illness, are 100% effective (or very, very close to it) in preventing death from the disease.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Doohickie

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

If the purpose of a vaccine is to achieve herd immunity then wouldn't it also be possible for that to happen naturally? 

Yes, but only with thousands of unnecessary deaths.  Eventually there was some level of herd immunity to the black death but only after a third of the population was wiped out.

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

Yes, but only with thousands of unnecessary deaths.  Eventually there was some level of herd immunity to the black death but only after a third of the population was wiped out.

But they kept the lamb wagons open!

[Doohicksie]

You sound like my illustrious governor.

[rickshaw]

I am from BC and we did a good job with everything in the beginning but now so many people are just too selfish and lazy to follow through and this virus hangs around.

Every weekend a group of anti maskers whining about 5G and their rights bla bla bla gather. It’s ridiculous.

I haven’t been sick in over a year (since I had what I believe was Covid- awful) and I’m pretty happy about it. I am a social person but I’m all for masks and distancing until this is over. The flu? What’s that. There’s pretty much zero flu here. Gee I wonder why?

I can say going fwd that every year I’ll start masking up when the seasons shift to fall/winter so I can avoid getting a nasty cold or other bug. I sick at being sick. 

But to the maniacs out there defiant in their big stand against the huge sacrifice of having to wear a mask, you know where you can stick it. I honestly can’t believe this is a sword people wanna fall on. The twits that gather here (and everywhere) should use that hour or two and try something constructive, like volunteering their time. Do some good instead of the Groundhog Day we are stuck in.

To those who lost loved ones, sorry. 
 

[miles]

I have a coworker that tested positive feb 15th. He had a mild case but his wifes case is much worse. 

He had symptoms of what he described as a head cold.  He never got retested and said he still feels like he has a head cold like he had, but he said the cdc says he should quarantined for 10 days so he is ok now and back in the office

 

I thought if you still had sickness that you weren't safe to go out. He never went back to get retested for a negative. He said because you could test positive for 3 months. 

 

Is it really safe for him to be out when he still has minor symptoms and his wife is still sick too?

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Mike Honcho

[LGR4GM]

Are there ever going to be vaccine appointments in Buffalo? I have checked every day, twice a day for weeks now and nothing. Meanwhile Syracuse has had multiple restocks. 

[miles]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Are there ever going to be vaccine appointments in Buffalo? I have checked every day, twice a day for weeks now and nothing. Meanwhile Syracuse has had multiple restocks. 

I dont know how far Syracuse is from buffalo but we had to drive for over 1 hour to get our vaccine. there is nothing in our area

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Mike Honcho said:

I dont know how far Syracuse is from buffalo but we had to drive for over 1 hour to get our vaccine. there is nothing in our area

between 2.5 and 3 hours

[miles]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

between 2.5 and 3 hours

Oh that is far. 

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Oh that is far. 

it says for me it is 2.5 hours almost exactly to the fairgrounds where the vaccine is. So that's 5 hours round trip and I need to do that twice. 

[Brawndo]

On 3/2/2021 at 9:32 AM, Doohickie said:

Yes, but only with thousands of unnecessary deaths.  Eventually there was some level of herd immunity to the black death but only after a third of the population was wiped out.

Not to mention those who do not die from the disease can have lasting effects rubella causing deafness, Mumps causing male infertility and a multitude of COVID related side effects.,

Vaccines offer herd immunity without the deaths and side effects 

[Doohicksie]

So my craft brewer friend got interviewed by CNN tonight about the lifting of the mask mandate here in Texas. Macy has been a staunch supporter of the mask mandate, social distancing, and sanitization. His taproom is one of the very few places I'll go in (although I usually get my beer and go back out to the patio).

Edited March 4, 2021 by Doohickie

[miles]

got my second moderna shot today. my wife got hers already a few days ago.

unfortunately, friday night she got a small head cold, we dont think its covid or anything, but she got tested just to be safe. all she has is a stuffy head. no cough, no loss of smell/taste or anything like that. just a stuffy nose. the kind of thing you would ignore, if it wasnt a pandemic.  hopefully she gets the results tomorrow. we live in a small apartment, so if she gets covid, im sure to get it too

 

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Mike Honcho