COVID-19

[Wyldnwoody44]

2 hours ago, Curt said:

To me, this potentially makes some sense.  They are trying to walk a line between limiting exposure and providing as good an education as possible.  Fewer kids in school less often = less potential exposure.  Some in person instruction = better learning than zero in person instruction.  It’s what most NYS schools are doing I think.  My mother’s school is doing something very similar.

The example you gave with your nurse makes zero sense and is actually insane.

The example you gave with patients’ test results is illogical and an unfortunate/sad result of stupid red tape.

I've come around to basically agreeing to some of the measures, granted I'm still not 100% bought in, and I certainly won't be all in, mentally; but I can respect both sides and as a health care professional I have an obligation to health. 

I just get very off kilter each week something new like this happens and just seems to go without any stir. Meanwhile people are getting much more upset over much more minor things. 

[drnkirishone]

3 hours ago, carpandean said:

A key part of these plans is that half the kids will be on one two-day pattern, while the other half will be on a different one.  So, it will look like:

• Monday: Group A in school, Group B online
• Tuesday: Group A online, Group B in school
• Wednesday: Group A and B online, School cleaned heavily
• Thursday: Group A in school, Group B online
• Friday: Group A online, Group B in school

This reduces the maximum number of students on buses, in school, etc, to half.  Plus, it gives a good cleaning in between.

wouldn't the one thing both groups have in common be the teacher? That seems to be a very likely way for both groups to get infected and spread the infection thru both groups homes

[carpandean]

1 hour ago, drnkirishone said:

wouldn't the one thing both groups have in common be the teacher? That seems to be a very likely way for both groups to get infected and spread the infection thru both groups homes

In some cases, that might be true.  However, in many cases, there are (or can be) some multiple of two number of classes (homerooms) per grade.  So, you have half the homerooms' teachers there on M/Th and half on T/F.  On their off days, they are teaching online.  It gets harder with more specialized teachers in older grades.

Edited July 25, 2020 by carpandean

[Eleven]

3 hours ago, drnkirishone said:

wouldn't the one thing both groups have in common be the teacher? That seems to be a very likely way for both groups to get infected and spread the infection thru both groups homes

 

2 hours ago, carpandean said:

In some cases, that might be true.  However, in many cases, there are (or can be) some multiple of two number of classes (homerooms) per grade.  So, you have half the homerooms' teachers there on M/Th and half on T/F.  On their off days, they are teaching online.  It gets harder with more specialized teachers in older grades.

Come on.  The biology teacher still is going to be the biology teacher. I know, carp, that you acknowledge this with your last sentence, but still, even in elementary school, they have different teachers for different subjects.  

 

I'm with Woody.  Either open the schools or don't.  Half of a solution is not a solution.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Eleven

[SwampD]

51 minutes ago, Eleven said:

 

Come on.  The biology teacher still is going to be the biology teacher. I know, carp, that you acknowledge this with your last sentence, but still, even in elementary school, they have different teachers for different subjects.  

 

I'm with Woody.  Either open the schools or don't.  Half of a solution is not a solution.

I completely disagree with this. At the risk of offending, I find this thinking somewhat ridiculous.

Edited July 26, 2020 by SwampD

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

 

Come on.  The biology teacher still is going to be the biology teacher. I know, carp, that you acknowledge this with your last sentence, but still, even in elementary school, they have different teachers for different subjects.  

 

I'm with Woody.  Either open the schools or don't.  Half of a solution is not a solution.

They do???  Is this new?  When I was in elementary school (90s) we stayed with the same teacher all day.

Also, why is an all or nothing approach automatically the only thing that makes sense?  It is not logical that perhaps limited up person teaching is better for learning than no in person, while also limiting the number of kids in school at one time, so that social distancing is possible, where it would be impossible with a full school.  Is it totally crazy that it might be the best way forward right now?

[JujuFish]

7 minutes ago, Curt said:

They do???  Is this new?  When I was in elementary school (90s) we stayed with the same teacher all day.

My roommate is an elementary school teacher and I can tell you Eleven is mostly wrong in her school. Aside from specialty teachers (art, music, language), students are with the same teacher all day.

[Eleven]

56 minutes ago, Curt said:

They do???  Is this new?  When I was in elementary school (90s) we stayed with the same teacher all day.

Also, why is an all or nothing approach automatically the only thing that makes sense?  It is not logical that perhaps limited up person teaching is better for learning than no in person, while also limiting the number of kids in school at one time, so that social distancing is possible, where it would be impossible with a full school.  Is it totally crazy that it might be the best way forward right now?

 

47 minutes ago, JujuFish said:

My roommate is an elementary school teacher and I can tell you Eleven is mostly wrong in her school. Aside from specialty teachers (art, music, language), students are with the same teacher all day.

Elementary school was 40 years ago for me.  And yes, we went to different rooms / teachers for history, reading, health, etc.

It may be very different now.

[SABRES 0311]

49 minutes ago, Curt said:

They do???  Is this new?  When I was in elementary school (90s) we stayed with the same teacher all day.

Also, why is an all or nothing approach automatically the only thing that makes sense?  It is not logical that perhaps limited up person teaching is better for learning than no in person, while also limiting the number of kids in school at one time, so that social distancing is possible, where it would be impossible with a full school.  Is it totally crazy that it might be the best way forward right now?

Same here.

My kids did fine with a third of the year being distance learning. This includes one taking an AP class. I still want school to open but my family is able to accommodate distance learning. Other families are not as fortunate and school also allows kids an opportunity to develop socially. 

Long story short each school district should do what makes sense for their district. Full school, distance learning or a combination. One thing I learned as a parent is to question if seven hours at a school is necessary for my kids to learn and develop.

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

I completely disagree with this. At the risk of offending, I find this thinking somewhat ridiculous.

You're not offensive.  But still, I feel the same.  Open or don't.

[SwampD]

11 minutes ago, Eleven said:

You're not offensive.  But still, I feel the same.  Open or don't.

All or nothing thinking is what is wrong with this country (maybe, world.)

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

8 hours ago, SwampD said:

All or nothing thinking is what is wrong with this country (maybe, world.)

So, all being equal doesn't work for you?

[Eleven]

9 hours ago, SwampD said:

All or nothing thinking is what is wrong with this country (maybe, world.)

Not everything has to be all or nothing, but it seems that opening schools should be.  

[Stoner]

Covid 19 — still not the flu.

Quote

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention acknowledged Friday that a significant number of COVID-19 patients do not recover quickly, and instead experience ongoing symptoms, such as fatigue and cough.

The report also pointed out that in contrast, "over 90 percent of outpatients with influenza recover within approximately two weeks" after a positive flu test.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/monumental-acknowledgment-cdc-reports-long-term-covid-19-patients-n1234814

[Curt]

2 hours ago, Eleven said:

Not everything has to be all or nothing, but it seems that opening schools should be.  

Why do you think it seems like that?

[SwampD]

33 minutes ago, Curt said:

Why do you think it seems like that?

Yeah. If you’re a parent, you know that getting those little ***** out of the house for even only 2 days a week is a godsend.

And not sure why schools should have it figured out when nowhere else has.

[Taro T]

21 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Yeah. If you’re a parent, you know that getting those little ***** out of the house for even only 2 days a week is a godsend.

And not sure why schools should have it figured out when nowhere else has.

There are a significant number of businesses that are open & seem to have figured out how to stay open without apparently significantly increasing risks to their employees, customers, nor vendors.  

It seems that organizations tasked with education as their service should be able to figure out how to deliver that service within 6 months of knowing their customers expect them to be able to deliver it.  The other sectors didn't have a 6 month buffer to figure out how to reopen.

If the area the school is located in isn't having a surge, keep the school open.  Alter that plan should the area face a surge.  Once it is past, reopen.  My 2 cents.

[SwampD]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

There are a significant number of businesses that are open & seem to have figured out how to stay open without apparently significantly increasing risks to their employees, customers, nor vendors.  

It seems that organizations tasked with education as their service should be able to figure out how to deliver that service within 6 months of knowing their customers expect them to be able to deliver it.  The other sectors didn't have a 6 month buffer to figure out how to reopen.

If the area the school is located in isn't having a surge, keep the school open.  Alter that plan should the area face a surge.  Once it is past, reopen.  My 2 cents.

What businesses are open at full capacity?

And they are delivering through remote learning.

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, SwampD said:

What businesses are open at full capacity?

A ton of B-2-B's are essentially at full capacity but with revamped floor plans & limitations on how many people can be in formerly large capacity rooms.

B-2-C's are also, in many cases open.  Walmart has caps on how many they allow into the store at a time, but haven't seen those at Target, Wegmans, nor Tops or the liquor  stores.  And have seen a queue outside of Walmart exactly 3 times.

If these places and many others can figure it out, so should our school districts be able to figure it out.  IMHO.  Again, have a plan in place should things around them start to turn bad to go temporarily to a more distance learning environment, but if the area they are in is in good shape, they should be open, IMHO.

Nothing in this post nor the earlier one says don't take any precautions, go back to exactly the way they operated before.  But the schools should be open.

[SwampD]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

A ton of B-2-B's are essentially at full capacity but with revamped floor plans & limitations on how many people can be in formerly large capacity rooms.

B-2-C's are also, in many cases open.  Walmart has caps on how many they allow into the store at a time, but haven't seen those at Target, Wegmans, nor Tops or the liquor  stores.  And have seen a queue outside of Walmart exactly 3 times.

If these places and many others can figure it out, so should our school districts be able to figure it out.  IMHO.  Again, have a plan in place should things around them start to turn bad to go temporarily to a more distance learning environment, but if the area they are in is in good shape, they should be open, IMHO.

Nothing in this post nor the earlier one says don't take any precautions, go back to exactly the way they operated before.  But the schools should be open.

Soooo, full capacity, but with limitations,... that’s not full capacity.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

51 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Soooo, full capacity, but with limitations,... that’s not full capacity.

I think he's talking about when you go to a store and they have arrows to direct you through the store (such as Walmart) as revamped and limitations.

[Taro T]

52 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Soooo, full capacity, but with limitations,... that’s not full capacity.

<_<

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

There are a significant number of businesses that are open & seem to have figured out how to stay open without apparently significantly increasing risks to their employees, customers, nor vendors.  

It seems that organizations tasked with education as their service should be able to figure out how to deliver that service within 6 months of knowing their customers expect them to be able to deliver it.  The other sectors didn't have a 6 month buffer to figure out how to reopen.

If the area the school is located in isn't having a surge, keep the school open.  Alter that plan should the area face a surge.  Once it is past, reopen.  My 2 cents.

Well you show me a business where you have 500 clients a day who are as naturally unruly as children and I'll buy in. 

Kids don't follow school rules now, imagine adding 20 new ones. Middle school in particular is just organized chaos.

Edited July 26, 2020 by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

A ton of B-2-B's are essentially at full capacity but with revamped floor plans & limitations on how many people can be in formerly large capacity rooms.

B-2-C's are also, in many cases open.  Walmart has caps on how many they allow into the store at a time, but haven't seen those at Target, Wegmans, nor Tops or the liquor  stores.  And have seen a queue outside of Walmart exactly 3 times.

If these places and many others can figure it out, so should our school districts be able to figure it out.  IMHO.  Again, have a plan in place should things around them start to turn bad to go temporarily to a more distance learning environment, but if the area they are in is in good shape, they should be open, IMHO.

Nothing in this post nor the earlier one says don't take any precautions, go back to exactly the way they operated before.  But the schools should be open.

You've clearly never in your life worked in k12 education. 

I'm not saying that to be mean or nasty. Schools are chaos because kids, especially younger ones don't listen they throw tantrums, they don't understand why they can't, they will touch and lick and share. There's no plan you can create that's gonna work, it's not a walmart where you can stop Billy Badass from coming without his mask, Billy at school is licking his friends pencils because he was told not to. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by LGR4GM

[LTS]

Kids will be given the option to be in school or not.  They will be able to learn remotely as well.  Those who are comfortable sending their kids to school will do so.

The teachers have to deal with this the most. They are the one's who will be exposed. They are the one's who may not have a choice in the matter.  I know some teachers who have no intention of stepping foot in the school right now and some who are ready to go.  One can only hope that some balance occurs such that those who don't want to go in can teach the remote learners while those who will work in the school will teach those in school.

It's going to be a mess because the schools are that much more complicated than pretty much any other facet of society.  Handling kids is difficult. I'm watching how our local youth baseball league is doing handling a subset of these kids. It's exactly as Liger posts above... they have no clue what they are supposed to do.  The baseball league puts the onus on the parents to police their kids but they aren't doing it. It's chaos.  Now, add more of them to the mix.