COVID-19

[North Buffalo]

I wear an N95 mask under my cloth mask at work to preserve it a bit  because we only get one a shift... Not great, but when this first started we were told to keep each one for a week... I managed to scavenge one for each shift... not ideal and PPE gowns were worn for a week.  It was crazy... not surprised I got sick and glad I got better to quote Monte Python... I'm not dead... and by better, I mean health wise.  Mentally, I guess I was prepared better than most having gone thru 911 in DC, anthrax and the sniper shooter and the Ricin scare as well.  So the PTSD stuff seems a little less, plus I see my colleagues regularly so it means I actually have some socialization.  Still stopped at a gas station to pick up some things and at the mini mart a lady walked in without a mask... frickin idiot.  I said something... she didn't seem to care and the night worker had a mask hanging from 1 ear..  Guess I won't be going back there anytime soon.  Cloth masks do help if double layered things from infecting others.  So if you ask me will there be a second wave... I am can see it happening.  

[LTS]

11 hours ago, Ogre said:

I’m too tired and also accidentally fell into the hot tub so I’m not reposting that link from my laptop tonight. It still works fine for me. I will share this link though. All of OSHA‘s news releases since Covid became a pandemic. I pulled it a few clicks into the link to OSHA’s website that I shared. OSHA really is our friend. 

https://www.osha.gov/news/newsreleases/search?title_body=coronavirus&field_press_date_from_nrsearch=&field_press_date_to_nrsearch=

I wish I had a hot tub to fall into accidentally. ?

So, as one would expect, there are articles and conversations every day about the efficacy of cloth masks. They range on both sides. You have statements from respected organizations that say "last resort", "better than nothing".  You have others saying "75% effective" "67% effective" ">50% effective". Of course they all come with the "when worn properly and accompanied by good hygiene".  There are studies out there trying to figure out what the impact of NOT washing your hands would be while still wearing a mask and vice versa.  

The studies I accept. They are what I want to see. I want to see those details.  But given all the back and forth it begins to wreak of behind the scenes manipulation of society to affect a certain outcome.  I have no idea what it would be, but usually these things are tied to longer end game items.  I'm not being conspiracy theory like here.  I think we all know that messages and initiatives are played out on the public in order to condition responses.  This is especially true after large disasters.

 

8 hours ago, North Buffalo said:

I wear an N95 mask under my cloth mask at work to preserve it a bit  because we only get one a shift... Not great, but when this first started we were told to keep each one for a week... I managed to scavenge one for each shift... not ideal and PPE gowns were worn for a week.  It was crazy... not surprised I got sick and glad I got better to quote Monte Python... I'm not dead... and by better, I mean health wise.  Mentally, I guess I was prepared better than most having gone thru 911 in DC, anthrax and the sniper shooter and the Ricin scare as well.  So the PTSD stuff seems a little less, plus I see my colleagues regularly so it means I actually have some socialization.  Still stopped at a gas station to pick up some things and at the mini mart a lady walked in without a mask... frickin idiot.  I said something... she didn't seem to care and the night worker had a mask hanging from 1 ear..  Guess I won't be going back there anytime soon.  Cloth masks do help if double layered things from infecting others.  So if you ask me will there be a second wave... I am can see it happening.  

I wore a mask to my auto shop... I could have figured that none of them would be wearing masks.  They have chairs in front of the counter but the sign reads:

Quote

Please stay back from counter 6 feet. "For your safety".

Putting for your safety in quotes really underscored their belief in things.

 

[Stoner]

6 minutes ago, LTS said:

I wish I had a hot tub to fall into accidentally. ?

So, as one would expect, there are articles and conversations every day about the efficacy of cloth masks. They range on both sides. You have statements from respected organizations that say "last resort", "better than nothing".  You have others saying "75% effective" "67% effective" ">50% effective". Of course they all come with the "when worn properly and accompanied by good hygiene".  There are studies out there trying to figure out what the impact of NOT washing your hands would be while still wearing a mask and vice versa.  

The studies I accept. They are what I want to see. I want to see those details.  But given all the back and forth it begins to wreak of behind the scenes manipulation of society to affect a certain outcome.  I have no idea what it would be, but usually these things are tied to longer end game items.  I'm not being conspiracy theory like here.  I think we all know that messages and initiatives are played out on the public in order to condition responses.  This is especially true after large disasters.

 

I wore a mask to my auto shop... I could have figured that none of them would be wearing masks.  They have chairs in front of the counter but the sign reads:

Putting for your safety in quotes really underscored their belief in things.

 

The "last resort/better than nothing" wording, if I'm not mistaken, was CDC guidance very early on for healthcare workers who were being exposed to sick people with the virus — a large and long exposure. It dates back to late March or early April when PPE was in short supply, and the public was deliberately misinformed so there wasn't a run on masks.

I've heard this latest narrative about societal manipulation. The fact no one can explain the purpose of the manipulation is pretty telling.

As for the quote marks in the sign, auto mechanics aren't ironic people. Lots of people who didn't do so goodly in English class put quotes around words in order to emphasize them. "HUGE BOGO SALE TODAY!"

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Goodly sighting ... LOL!!

[Sabres Fan in NS]

10 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

The "last resort/better than nothing" wording, if I'm not mistaken, was CDC guidance very early on for healthcare workers who were being exposed to sick people with the virus — a large and long exposure. It dates back to late March or early April when PPE was in short supply, and the public was deliberately misinformed so there wasn't a run on masks.

I've heard this latest narrative about societal manipulation. The fact no one can explain the purpose of the manipulation is pretty telling.

As for the quote marks in the sign, auto mechanics aren't ironic people. Lots of people who didn't do so goodly in English class put quotes around words in order to emphasize them. "HUGE BOGO SALE TODAY!"

We are always and constantly being manipulated.  The manipulators never try, or have, to explain that manipulation.  That's all part of the manipulation.  We want to be manipulated and are willingly manipulated in everything and in every way.

 

[LGR4GM]

19 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

The "last resort/better than nothing" wording, if I'm not mistaken, was CDC guidance very early on for healthcare workers who were being exposed to sick people with the virus — a large and long exposure. It dates back to late March or early April when PPE was in short supply, and the public was deliberately misinformed so there wasn't a run on masks.

I've heard this latest narrative about societal manipulation. The fact no one can explain the purpose of the manipulation is pretty telling.

As for the quote marks in the sign, auto mechanics aren't ironic people. Lots of people who didn't do so goodly in English class put quotes around words in order to emphasize them. "HUGE BOGO SALE TODAY!"

If only there had been a national strategy for PPE production and distribution that didn't rely on being friends with certain people or having some PPE confiscated without warning for some unknown purpose (it was sold for a profit, let's be real). 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

On 5/27/2020 at 1:02 AM, Doohickie said:

I'm just letting mine grow out.  Thinking eventually a ponytail.

You've got the 'Balkan Stare' thingie down pat.

And, I thought that we were supposed to have a nice and functional 'work from home space' to help make it all work.  How do you function at all while working in the middle of a great big pile of junk?  Nice junk pile, though.

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

We are always and constantly being manipulated.  The manipulators never try, or have, to explain that manipulation.  That's all part of the manipulation.  We want to be manipulated and are willingly manipulated in everything and in every way.

 

Say manipulation again, Frank. num num num num num num

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 minute ago, PASabreFan said:

Say manipulation again, Frank. num num num num num num

You forgot the ... and kiss me ... (maybe that's the num num num num num num part)

[Taro T]

As of today at 1PM the 5 regions of NYS that entered Phase 1 2 weeks ago are officially in Phase 2.  (Will finally be able to get a hair cut.  Yea!!!!)

As all the other areas that entered Phase 1 already are still meeting the criteria, presumably they will get released to Phase 2 at the governor's press conference following their reaching that status.  (The results get reviewed upon fulfillment of 2 weeks good data by 2 international experts (don't recall their names but they are on the website)).

NYC is on track to enter Phase 1 on June 8.

Presumably, if there are no setbacks, those regions entering Phase 2 today will be allowed to enter Phase 3 in 2 weeks.

While in Phase 2, restaurants aren't allowed to seat patrons, even outdoors, but the governor & the guy that was on the dais with him said they were looking into allowing that for places where it makes sense & can be done in a social distancing manner.  So, for NYC or Albany, little chance when they reach that point; places like where Weave, Woody, or yours truly live, very likely with limitations.

So, it's a good Friday.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Taro T

[North Buffalo]

Though starting to see more suspected cases down county... nowhere near as bad but on the rise.

Edited May 29, 2020 by North Buffalo

[spndnchz]

 

[spndnchz]

I’ve lost count but I think ,it’s number 8..  son of a client. Washington State Doctor. 35. 

[LTS]

On 5/29/2020 at 9:46 AM, PASabreFan said:

The "last resort/better than nothing" wording, if I'm not mistaken, was CDC guidance very early on for healthcare workers who were being exposed to sick people with the virus — a large and long exposure. It dates back to late March or early April when PPE was in short supply, and the public was deliberately misinformed so there wasn't a run on masks.

I've heard this latest narrative about societal manipulation. The fact no one can explain the purpose of the manipulation is pretty telling.

As for the quote marks in the sign, auto mechanics aren't ironic people. Lots of people who didn't do so goodly in English class put quotes around words in order to emphasize them. "HUGE BOGO SALE TODAY!"

The last resort better than nothing wording is from a study in 2017.  

The social manipulation isn't played out in weeks or months, it's played out in years and decades.  The fact that it cannot be explained now does not mean that in 10 years the dots won't be connected.  To what end?  I honestly don't know.  Wearing a mask would certainly screw up face recognition algorithms, but what if the alternative given was, wear a mask or submit to loading a tracking application on your device so your location can be tracked?  How many people opt for the mask or the app?  That's not really a conversation for this thread, but it's just one potential thought right off the top of my head.

See, you have to know this auto mechanic.  While they try not to be TOO clear in demonstrating their political leanings, etc. Let's just say they have said enough to demonstrate they firmly fall in the "very conservative, screw Democrats and any social policy that infringes upon my rights group".  The quotes were very clearly there because they don't believe in the mask wearing.. hence none of them wearing masks.  Imagine that, the guy who drove my car around to test the brakes and then parked it in the lot was not wearing a mask and did not clean my car before leaving it for me to go get in and drive around.  Seems like that would go against guidance given in other areas of society and business, but that's exactly what happened. 

[Doohicksie]

On 5/29/2020 at 9:18 AM, New Scotland (NS) said:

You've got the 'Balkan Stare' thingie down pat.

More of a Slavic snoop.

On 5/29/2020 at 9:18 AM, New Scotland (NS) said:

And, I thought that we were supposed to have a nice and functional 'work from home space' to help make it all work.  How do you function at all while working in the middle of a great big pile of junk?  Nice junk pile, though.

I cleaned my workspace, but not the whole room.  Still working on that.  My back's been sore the last few days though so it slows me down.

[Stoner]

27 minutes ago, LTS said:

The last resort better than nothing wording is from a study in 2017.  

The social manipulation isn't played out in weeks or months, it's played out in years and decades.  The fact that it cannot be explained now does not mean that in 10 years the dots won't be connected.  To what end?  I honestly don't know.  Wearing a mask would certainly screw up face recognition algorithms, but what if the alternative given was, wear a mask or submit to loading a tracking application on your device so your location can be tracked?  How many people opt for the mask or the app?  That's not really a conversation for this thread, but it's just one potential thought right off the top of my head.

See, you have to know this auto mechanic.  While they try not to be TOO clear in demonstrating their political leanings, etc. Let's just say they have said enough to demonstrate they firmly fall in the "very conservative, screw Democrats and any social policy that infringes upon my rights group".  The quotes were very clearly there because they don't believe in the mask wearing.. hence none of them wearing masks.  Imagine that, the guy who drove my car around to test the brakes and then parked it in the lot was not wearing a mask and did not clean my car before leaving it for me to go get in and drive around.  Seems like that would go against guidance given in other areas of society and business, but that's exactly what happened. 

The following study from 2017 seems like it might be the one you're referencing. The study indicates that homemade and surgical masks significantly reduced the expelling of microoganisms, but surgical masks were three times better in that regard. "Better than no protection" is misleading because it gives the idea that cloth masks aren't doing much, when the study clearly showed otherwise. Anyway, I'm a little tired of debating whether cloth masks help during a pandemic of a respiratory disease. Next time you sneeze, pull up you shirt and sneeze into it. Did less material get expelled? I'm also weary of asinine conspiracy theories. In the end, I'm losing. No masking of workers at my Aldi now, no masking of postal clerk in my post office. I'll vote with my feet, and let the companies know I'm doing so.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24229526/

Abstract

Objective: This study examined homemade masks as an alternative to commercial face masks.

Methods: Several household materials were evaluated for the capacity to block bacterial and viral aerosols. Twenty-one healthy volunteers made their own face masks from cotton t-shirts; the masks were then tested for fit. The number of microorganisms isolated from coughs of healthy volunteers wearing their homemade mask, a surgical mask, or no mask was compared using several air-sampling techniques.

Results: The median-fit factor of the homemade masks was one-half that of the surgical masks. Both masks significantly reduced the number of microorganisms expelled by volunteers, although the surgical mask was 3 times more effective in blocking transmission than the homemade mask.

Conclusion: Our findings suggest that a homemade mask should only be considered as a last resort to prevent droplet transmission from infected individuals, but it would be better than no protection.

 

[SwampD]

[Stoner]

15 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I'm chuckling but not sure why.

[Stoner]

In case anyone's interested in what's actually going on with Covid-19 in the U.S., the CDC puts out weekly summary every Friday. The data continues to be generally good.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

[LTS]

On 5/30/2020 at 12:58 PM, PASabreFan said:

The following study from 2017 seems like it might be the one you're referencing. The study indicates that homemade and surgical masks significantly reduced the expelling of microoganisms, but surgical masks were three times better in that regard. "Better than no protection" is misleading because it gives the idea that cloth masks aren't doing much, when the study clearly showed otherwise. Anyway, I'm a little tired of debating whether cloth masks help during a pandemic of a respiratory disease. Next time you sneeze, pull up you shirt and sneeze into it. Did less material get expelled? I'm also weary of asinine conspiracy theories. In the end, I'm losing. No masking of workers at my Aldi now, no masking of postal clerk in my post office. I'll vote with my feet, and let the companies know I'm doing so.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24229526/

Abstract

Objective: This study examined homemade masks as an alternative to commercial face masks.

Methods: Several household materials were evaluated for the capacity to block bacterial and viral aerosols. Twenty-one healthy volunteers made their own face masks from cotton t-shirts; the masks were then tested for fit. The number of microorganisms isolated from coughs of healthy volunteers wearing their homemade mask, a surgical mask, or no mask was compared using several air-sampling techniques.

Results: The median-fit factor of the homemade masks was one-half that of the surgical masks. Both masks significantly reduced the number of microorganisms expelled by volunteers, although the surgical mask was 3 times more effective in blocking transmission than the homemade mask.

Conclusion: Our findings suggest that a homemade mask should only be considered as a last resort to prevent droplet transmission from infected individuals, but it would be better than no protection.

 

Yes, that line is quite clear.  It's better than nothing.  The real question is how much better?  Are people really safe because others are wearing masks or are they saf"er".  Which is to say, perhaps they have a 1% less chance because of a mask.  So yes, better than nothing, but not necessarily effective. 

Do you feel safe because someone is wearing a mask when you don't know how effective it is?

[Curt]

1 minute ago, LTS said:

Yes, that line is quite clear.  It's better than nothing.  The real question is how much better?  Are people really safe because others are wearing masks or are they saf"er".  Which is to say, perhaps they have a 1% less chance because of a mask.  So yes, better than nothing, but not necessarily effective. 

Do you feel safe because someone is wearing a mask when you don't know how effective it is?

The answer is obviously “safer“.  No PPE is going to keep a person 100% safe, especially not cloth masks.  It will help reduce the amount of virus that gets coughed/sneezed/breathed out into the air though, helping to keep people at least a little bit safer.

Really though, you are kind of missing the point if this is what you are focusing on.  The point of covering your face is not to keep everyone 100% safe or to make everyone feel safer.  It was/is to prevent a large mass of people all coming down with Covid-19 symptoms requiring hospitalization at the same time, exceeding available hospital resources, overwhelmingly the health care system, and cause many deaths due to unavailability of care.

[Stoner]

What Curt said plus no one is saying masks are the end all and be all. Masks. Social distancing. Stay at home as much as possible. Hand hygiene. yada yada yada

[Stoner]

3 hours ago, LTS said:

Yes, that line is quite clear.  It's better than nothing.  The real question is how much better?  Are people really safe because others are wearing masks or are they saf"er".  Which is to say, perhaps they have a 1% less chance because of a mask.  So yes, better than nothing, but not necessarily effective. 

Do you feel safe because someone is wearing a mask when you don't know how effective it is?

"Significantly reduced..." It starts and ends right there.

Two bonus reasons for wearing a mask: that healthcare worker who sees you thinks people care about them; masks remind people we're in a pandemic. (Not to mention the powdered psychotropic meds dusted on the masks.)

[Ogre]

3 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

"Significantly reduced..." It starts and ends right there.

Two bonus reasons for wearing a mask: that healthcare worker who sees you thinks people care about them; masks remind people we're in a pandemic. (Not to mention the powdered psychotropic meds dusted on the masks.)

I’ve trained many adult skeptics about PPE over the years. After I’ve had your full attention for 30 hours (I have no problem maintaining 30 hours of nail bitting lecture) you will certainly 1) Understand that a mask is low level PPE. 2) Your employer is responsible for PPE. 3) It is your duty under The Standards to protect your fellow worker and 4) Life is hard, we are a team and we do the little things so everyone goes home to a cold beer. 

The Standards are just the bare minimum too. I follow my own safety protocols when I’m on site. I assure you that they go above and beyond The Standard. Trust me. At this pointy in life I’m lucky to still be here. I’m going to minimize my exposure to Ironwork as best I can until I figure out how to get affordable health care as a 50ish year old.
 

Then I’m “pulling the pin”.....an old Ironworker term for being done with it. 
 

Life is really friggin hard...

[FogBat]

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