COVID-19

[dudacek]

We had our Thanksgiving family dinner outside and are trying to find some way to make Christmas dinner work the same way

.

[ubkev]

I haven't had Thanksgiving with my family in 10 years. So this won't be a problem for me. Christmas however...gonna have to get that figured out. I hate missing Christmas with the family, although it does happen sometimes. That will probably be the case this year. 

[JujuFish]

My Thanksgiving will be hanging out with my roommate and her mom.  Nothing special.  Probably turkey and pie, and a couple games of Pandemic.

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, JujuFish said:

My Thanksgiving will be hanging out with my roommate and her mom.  Nothing special.  Probably turkey and pie, and a couple games of Pandemic.

We used to play pandemic with the kids and the odd thing now I think about it is our worst games where the pandemic won (so to speak) were when the red Asian zone went crazy on us. My daughter used to call it the "red boom theory" and so for those that haven't played it, that'd be China and then out from there.  Just saying.  

[Eleven]

41 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

We used to play pandemic with the kids and the odd thing now I think about it is our worst games where the pandemic won (so to speak) were when the red Asian zone went crazy on us. My daughter used to call it the "red boom theory" and so for those that haven't played it, that'd be China and then out from there.  Just saying.  

I have that game.  I've only played it once, and we won on the last possible turn.  It likely is the most fun I ever have had playing a board game.  It was a huge rush.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Eleven said:

I have that game.  I've only played it once, and we won on the last possible turn.  It likely is the most fun I ever have had playing a board game.  It was a huge rush.

It's a good one. There's an original and an expansion set (they might be sold together now since it's a few years old). The expansion is even better, you can have one person act as a bio terrorist as well as numerous other roles for people to choose. Makes it more complicated and challenging. 

[That Aud Smell]

22 hours ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

Maybe, but with the nazi style lockdowns coming down the chute, maybe not. 

22 hours ago, Weave said:

We're debating getting together.  Count case in my county is higher than it was in Spring.  And the county I work in is blowing up.  I really don't want to be the one who spreads it to my family.

Not going to happen for us. This thing is headed in the wrong direction, and in a bad way. Too many vulnerable people in our annual Thanksgiving Day roster.

[JohnC]

On 11/8/2020 at 9:44 AM, Wyldnwoody44 said:

Maybe, but with the nazi style lockdowns coming down the chute, maybe not. 

For someone who is involved in the medical field your response is extremely thoughtless. States and local authorities for the most part make decisions on public health issues. The federal government doesn't have unfettered authority to impose national public health rules. There are states that have seat belt laws and there are states that don't have seat belt laws. Where they do exist are those Nazi-like requirements? There are states that have motorcycle helmet laws and states that don't have them. Where they do exist do those laws reflect Nazi-like inclinations? Most local public health authorities don't allow people in restaurants without shoes or shirts? Are those Nazi-like rules? Most local public health authorities require the people who cook in food establishments to wear some sort of hair net to prevent hair getting into the food being cooked. Are those Nazi-like rules? Most public health authorities require the restaurant staff to wash their hands after using the bathroom. Are those hygiene requirements a reflection of Nazi-like government thinking? 

You can believe whatever you want to believe on this issue. That's your prerogative. However, for someone who claims to be involved in the health sector your response is very reckless and disappointing. 

[LGR4GM]

On 11/8/2020 at 9:44 AM, Wyldnwoody44 said:

Maybe, but with the nazi style lockdowns coming down the chute, maybe not. 

[Wyldnwoody44]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

For someone who is involved in the medical field your response is extremely thoughtless. States and local authorities for the most part make decisions on public health issues. The federal government doesn't have unfettered authority to impose national public health rules. There are states that have seat belt laws and there are states that don't have seat belt laws. Where they do exist are those Nazi-like requirements? There are states that have motorcycle helmet laws and states that don't have them. Where they do exist do those laws reflect Nazi-like inclinations? Most local public health authorities don't allow people in restaurants without shoes or shirts? Are those Nazi-like rules? Most local public health authorities require the people who cook in food establishments to wear some sort of hair net to prevent hair getting into the food being cooked. Are those Nazi-like rules? Most public health authorities require the restaurant staff to wash their hands after using the bathroom. Are those hygiene requirements a reflection of Nazi-like government thinking? 

You can believe whatever you want to believe on this issue. That's your prerogative. However, for someone who claims to be involved in the health sector your response is very reckless and disappointing. 

News flash, a majority of health care professionals share an opinion similar to mine. Not all, but more than one would think. It doesn't mean that I don't follow protocols, I don't do reckless things, I wear my mask, I take all precautions with my patients, etc etc. I'm not loving it. But it's an opinion and this is a Covid thread on the internet, venting is allowed. Last time I checked not everyone agrees on everything. I still think our response is poor and not based entirely in true science, which should be all that matters. Most of the nay sayers to my thoughts on this haven't worked in the medical or even scientific sector at all, it changes perspective 

[SwampD]

27 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

News flash, a majority of health care professionals share an opinion similar to mine. Not all, but more than one would think. It doesn't mean that I don't follow protocols, I don't do reckless things, I wear my mask, I take all precautions with my patients, etc etc. I'm not loving it. But it's an opinion and this is a Covid thread on the internet, venting is allowed. Last time I checked not everyone agrees on everything. I still think our response is poor and not based entirely in true science, which should be all that matters. Most of the nay sayers to my thoughts on this haven't worked in the medical or even scientific sector at all, it changes perspective 

My niece is a nurse in Bergen county, New Jersey.

I believe that she might actually fight you for having this opinion.

[JohnC]

48 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

News flash, a majority of health care professionals share an opinion similar to mine. Not all, but more than one would think. It doesn't mean that I don't follow protocols, I don't do reckless things, I wear my mask, I take all precautions with my patients, etc etc. I'm not loving it. But it's an opinion and this is a Covid thread on the internet, venting is allowed. Last time I checked not everyone agrees on everything. I still think our response is poor and not based entirely in true science, which should be all that matters. Most of the nay sayers to my thoughts on this haven't worked in the medical or even scientific sector at all, it changes perspective 

Your opinion is a distinct minority opinion. You are not part of the norm when it comes to the medical community's position on this medical issue. Even Trump's medical experts other than the kooks that were brought in don't support what you are espousing. 

I agree with you that not everyone agrees on everything. You want to know why? Because it is an impossibility. There are still people who believe that Martians live on the moon. 

Edited November 9, 2020 by JohnC

[miles]

with the holidays coming my wife and i are at odds. she thinks the covid thing is fine and has no issues with going to see her whole family at once, where i will not. unfortunately she is making my choice because she is going to see her family, and then coming home. her brother has a kid, that goes out with friends and hangs out all the time, which i dont believe a 14 year old is being safe. 

her brother already started the ***** of we want to host thanksgiving this year, etc. normally we dont even see them on thanksgiving, now all of a sudden they want everyone to drive 2 hours to their house to see them during a pandemic 

my brother in law is flying from puerto rico, which introduces a bigger risk to everyone

my wife didnt commit to going, but i know that i am not going. unfortunately, if she does go, she has the possibility of bringing it home to me. also, she has been doing shopping and other stuff, not just for necessities either.  we already had big arguments about it, but at the end of the day, she will  do what she wants.  even her mother has sided with me about this because she isnt taking my opinion into consideration when going out and risking her health and mine. its odd because she is normally very thoughtful when it comes to others feelings. on this, she doesnt care. to her, its not a big deal. 

Edited November 9, 2020 by miles

[LTS]

14 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Your opinion is a distinct minority opinion. You are not part of the norm when it comes to the medical community's position on this medical issue. Even Trump's medical experts other than the kooks that were brought in don't support what you are espousing. 

I agree with you that not everyone agrees on everything. You want to know why? Because it is an impossibility. There are still people who believe that Martians live on the moon. 

Frankly, what you are presented with in media and online is not necessarily the grand opinion of medical professionals. I doubt ANY of us are capable of having a widespread understanding of how they feel on the subject.

I know a few medical professionals who share the opinion that lockdowns, etc. are nothing more than placebo for the masses and do just as much damage as COVID does. They believe in the safety protocols, but the lockdowns are garbage.  They don't share those opinions openly because being derided and harassed by people is not something they want to take on given their already stressful lives.  I know medical professional who disagree with their opinion as well.

To pretend that anyone has the right answer is pure folly. Think of it this way.  Despite all the safety measures, the protocols, etc. Cases are rising. Why?  Are you going to pin on a few careless people or is it more likely that the safety protocols and lockdowns are not as effective?  Well, at least not as they are right now.  Certainly forcing everyone to live within their own sealed biosphere would be more effective, and I think that's really what those who oppose the lockdowns are getting at.  How far do the lockdowns have to go to be as effective as people want them to be and at that point are people giving up too much of their freedom and thus being impacted psychologically and in other ways?

Do you believe that the percentage of people who are against the lockdowns (and further increasing them) is roughly the same as the percentage of people who believe Martians live on the moon?  Asking since you are relating the two.

[bob_sauve28]

3 minutes ago, miles said:

with the holidays coming my wife and i are at odds. she thinks the covid thing is fine and has no issues with going to see her whole family at once, where i will not. unfortunately she is making my choice because she is going to see her family, and then coming home. her brother has a kid, that goes out with friends and hangs out all the time, which i dont believe a 14 year old is being safe. 

her brother already started the ***** of we want to host thanksgiving this year, etc. normally we dont even see them on thanksgiving, now all of a sudden they want everyone to drive 2 hours to their house to see them during a pandemic 

my brother in law is flying from puerto rico, which introduces a bigger risk to everyone

my wife didnt commit to going, but i know that i am not going. unfortunately, if she does go, she has the possibility of bringing it home to me. also, she has been doing shopping and other stuff, not just for necessities either.  we already had big arguments about it, but at the end of the day, she will  do what she wants.  even her mother has sided with me about this because she isnt taking my opinion into consideration when going out and risking her health and mine. its odd because she is normally very thoughtful when it comes to others feelings. on this, she doesnt care. to her, its not a big deal. 

Good luck! 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

Frankly, what you are presented with in media and online is not necessarily the grand opinion of medical professionals. I doubt ANY of us are capable of having a widespread understanding of how they feel on the subject.

I know a few medical professionals who share the opinion that lockdowns, etc. are nothing more than placebo for the masses and do just as much damage as COVID does. They believe in the safety protocols, but the lockdowns are garbage.  They don't share those opinions openly because being derided and harassed by people is not something they want to take on given their already stressful lives.  I know medical professional who disagree with their opinion as well.

To pretend that anyone has the right answer is pure folly. Think of it this way.  Despite all the safety measures, the protocols, etc. Cases are rising. Why?  Are you going to pin on a few careless people or is it more likely that the safety protocols and lockdowns are not as effective?  Well, at least not as they are right now.  Certainly forcing everyone to live within their own sealed biosphere would be more effective, and I think that's really what those who oppose the lockdowns are getting at.  How far do the lockdowns have to go to be as effective as people want them to be and at that point are people giving up too much of their freedom and thus being impacted psychologically and in other ways?

Do you believe that the percentage of people who are against the lockdowns (and further increasing them) is roughly the same as the percentage of people who believe Martians live on the moon?  Asking since you are relating the two.

The lockdown issue is not the real issue. By following the basic public health guidelines such as social distancing, wearing a mask, washing one hands and when called for quarantining infected people you can prevent the spread and avoid the more drastic action of selective lockdowns. It's not surprising to the public health experts that there was a surge of infectious cases after the motor cycle gathering in South Dakota, political rallies with large number of people not wearing a mask and tightly packed in a crowd  and even the White House where the basic public health protocols were not followed. 

There is no magic solution with this highly infectious virus. Even when an effective vaccine is developed the most effective manner to deal with this plague is to follow the public standard health guidelines. There are basic proscribed protocols for infectious viruses that are called for in order to contain (not necessarily eliminate) the spread.  What has damaged our ability to deal with this pandemic is the politicization of  public health protocols like wearing a mask when appropriate. 

This is what happens when you ignore the basic protocols. https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/09/politics/ben-carson-coronavirus/index.html

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by JohnC

[I-90 W]

Anyone else think that the vaccine timing looks really, really bad? I mean, I’m not even trying to imply anything political or whatever. But seriously. 

[JujuFish]

6 minutes ago, I-90 W said:

Anyone else think that the vaccine timing looks really, really bad? I mean, I’m not even trying to imply anything political or whatever. But seriously. 

Um, no?

[dudacek]

30 minutes ago, I-90 W said:

Anyone else think that the vaccine timing looks really, really bad? I mean, I’m not even trying to imply anything political or whatever. But seriously. 

I think it is really, really good. Having something available early in the new year was always the best case scenario, no?

[That Aud Smell]

The timing is such that people are bound to grouse that Pfizer held off on making its announcement until after the election.

I'm not buying it, for a few reasons. Among them: (1) Pfizer had been forecasting a mid-November announcement going back at least as far as late September/early October. (2) The financial incentives here are so huge that there's NFW a company (a public company, btw) would delay an announcement any longer than they absolutely had to for scientific/legal/regulatory reasons.   

[I-90 W]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think it is really, really good. Having something available early in the new year was always the best case scenario, no?

It’s a great thing!

It is just that there has been so many people saying something to the effect of “wait til the election is over, then this will all be gone”. This will convince them that they were right all along. 

[Eleven]

4 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

The timing is such that people are bound to grouse that Pfizer held off on making its announcement until after the election.

I'm not buying it, for a few reasons. Among them: (1) Pfizer had been forecasting a mid-November announcement going back at least as far as late September/early October. (2) The financial incentives here are so huge that there's NFW a company (a public company, btw) would delay an announcement any longer than they absolutely had to for scientific/legal/regulatory reasons.   

3.  The vaccine has to be stored at -70C and no one has solved that logistical problem yet; 

4.  They're only going to be able to provide 50 million doses by the end of the year, which sounds like a lot, but really isn't, since we need ~8 billion.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

10 minutes ago, Eleven said:

3.  The vaccine has to be stored at -70C and no one has solved that logistical problem yet; 

4.  They're only going to be able to provide 50 million doses by the end of the year, which sounds like a lot, but really isn't, since we need ~8 billion.

2doses/person = ~700,000,000

Unless of course you are counting all those entering the country after Jan 20th.

If you're counting the world then it's about 16 billion.

Edited November 9, 2020 by MakeSabresGrr8Again

[Wyldnwoody44]

9 minutes ago, Eleven said:

3.  The vaccine has to be stored at -70C and no one has solved that logistical problem yet; 

4.  They're only going to be able to provide 50 million doses by the end of the year, which sounds like a lot, but really isn't, since we need ~8 billion.

Question, can they force the vaccination on everyone? You know law, so that's why I ask. Private employers such as mine have the right to make me get one, just like the flu vaccine. I'm by no means an anti-vaxxer, quite the opposite, but I fear that this could get ugly soon if there is vaccination by force looming? 

3 hours ago, SwampD said:

My niece is a nurse in Bergen county, New Jersey.

I believe that she might actually fight you for having this opinion.

I'm a lover, not a fighter 

[Wyldnwoody44]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

Your opinion is a distinct minority opinion. You are not part of the norm when it comes to the medical community's position on this medical issue. Even Trump's medical experts other than the kooks that were brought in don't support what you are espousing. 

I agree with you that not everyone agrees on everything. You want to know why? Because it is an impossibility. There are still people who believe that Martians live on the moon. 

Idk if I'd call it distinct, I've chatted with many colleges around the globe and it's pretty evenly split 50/50 in my social circle. I've been getting backlash since March 8th, I don't mind really. My thoughts on this are well documented and I've previously put up some numbers in the past supporting my stance, obviously taken with a grain of salt, much like the other numbers we're seeing. Fact is at the end of the day, I save upwards of what, 50 lives a week, Covid or noncovid, I haven't knowingly got anyone sick, I stayed home when I had pneumonia last week,I follow guidelines even if I believe they're more fluff than substance. So my words are simply that, thoughts and opinion that are relatively harmless. It wouldn't hurt to think about this thing from both sides for a second.