COVID-19

[shrader]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

 

It's comforting to know that random people didn't know how to wear them back then either.

[SwampD]

1 minute ago, shrader said:

It's comforting to know that random people didn't know how to wear them back then either.

I had the same thought.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

 

I wonder if they were rational and without tribalism or righteousness?

[shrader]

5 minutes ago, Weave said:

I wonder if they were rational and without tribalism or righteousness?

I bet they weren't too crazy about Spain.

[Neo]

I’m really at a loss for words.  If you conflate anything in the article with mask ignorance, I can’t help you.  I hope you didn’t read the article and just decided to post, unable to resist snark.   If you did read, and drew that conclusion, you’re on your own.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Neo

[SwampD]

46 minutes ago, Neo said:

I’m really at a loss for words.  If you conflate anything in the article with mask ignorance, I can’t help you.  I hope you didn’t read the article and just decided to post, unable to resist snark.   If you did read, and drew that conclusion, you’re on your own.

I was unable to read that article. Pretty sure Weave was reacting to your post and not the article.

Just because you don't say things directly, doesn't mean that you don't say them. We're too smart to realize that you're too smart to not know what you are doing. Many a post has had to be moved because you didn't say something that you said.

[Neo]

8 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I was unable to read that article. Pretty sure Weave was reacting to your post and not the article.

Just because you don't say things directly, doesn't mean that you don't say them. We're too smart to realize that you're too smart to not know what you are doing. Many a post has had to be moved because you didn't say something that you said.

A good poster once suggested I over think.  Get back to me after you’ve read the article.

[WildCard]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

I bet they weren't too crazy about Spain.

There's debate about if it even came from Spain, or it came from somewhere else and people brought it to Spain in WW1 where others contracted it there and brought it home with them.

[carpandean]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

A good poster once suggested I over think.  Get back to me after you’ve read the article.

Unless a poster has a WSJ subscription, they can't read it.  Sounds interesting, but ...

[Curt]

1 hour ago, WildCard said:

There's debate about if it even came from Spain, or it came from somewhere else and people brought it to Spain in WW1 where others contracted it there and brought it home with them.

I think the real deal was that it spread all over the world during WWI, wherever it originated from.  Most major countries were involved in the war and suppressed their newspapers from writing about how bad the pandemic was there.  They didn’t want to expose national weaknesses in the midst of the largest war in the history of the world.

Spain on the other hand was not involved in the war and their papers were publishing everything about it when no one else was.  The pandemic became permanently linked to the country putting out the most information about it.

[Neo]

28 minutes ago, carpandean said:

Unless a poster has a WSJ subscription, they can't read it.  Sounds interesting, but ...

Usually available later in the day, or next day.

Opens:

George­town Uni­ver­sity has given all its fac­ulty, in­clud­ing me, the op­tion to teach in the class­room or re­motely via com­puter dur­ing the fall se­mester. Even though my age places me in the high-risk cat­e­gory, I’ve elected to teach in per­son. I feel I have an oblig­a­tion to do so.

Continues:

For the past four months, I have watched peo­ple younger than my­self risk in­fec­tion for my ben­e­fit. Peo­ple who are of­ten the age of my stu­dents have kept gro­cery stores open for me, cooked and de­liv­ered food to my home, worked in ware­houses, loaded and dri­ven trucks to de­liver pack­ages to me, worked in meat-pro­cess­ing plants and other links in the sup­ply chain to en­sure that I have what I need for a com­fort­able life, and worked in hos­pi­tals so that I can get treat­ment if I get sick. I would feel un­gen­er­ous if I were un­will­ing to run some risk of in­fec­tion my­self to pro­vide my ser­vices to them.

Closes:

I un­der­stand why my col­leagues, es­pe­cially those in high-risk cat­e­gories, would choose to teach re­motely. My com­ments re­flect only my own eval­u­a­tion of risks and re­wards and are not in­tended as crit­i­cism of those who’ve made a con­trary de­ci­sion. But when classes start up again in Au­gust, I will be at the podium, ready to look my stu­dents in the eye, which is all that will be vis­i­ble above their masks, and get back to work.

————————————————

Rational.  Not tribal.  Not righteous.   

Edited July 14, 2020 by Neo

[Weave]

3 hours ago, SwampD said:

I was unable to read that article. Pretty sure Weave was reacting to your post and not the article.

Just because you don't say things directly, doesn't mean that you don't say them. We're too smart to realize that you're too smart to not know what you are doing. Many a post has had to be moved because you didn't say something that you said.

Yes.  To all of this post.

3 hours ago, Neo said:

A good poster once suggested I over think.  Get back to me after you’ve read the article.

Apparently I have struck a nerve. I''ve struggled with how I want to respond.  I like and respect you and mean no ill will.  You assumed Eleven's intentions were to keep "his people" healthy.  The message was more simple than that, "keep as many as you can healthy".  Rather than consider that maybe the response was more general in nature you've spent the ensuing weeks throwing tribalism and righteous around as thinly veiled slurs, all the while being self righteous yourself.  Noone meant to insult or judge or disparage.  It was all well meaning advice with society as a whole in mind that has lead to this eloquent,  simmering perturbation. 

 

Regarding that article, or the portions of it you excerpted anyway...... my take is that professor, like so many others, are perceiving risk as an inward hazard, when it is really an outward hazard.  The message that is trying to be sent is not "protect yourself".  It is "protect others".  I suppose you can make a case that his profession may be essential and therefore the risk may be justifiable, but I'm not convinced given the ability to perform his functions remotely.  He's portraying his plight as that of a heroic victim.  The idea is to prevent him from turning his students into heroic victims. 

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Weave

[Neo]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Yes.  To all of this post.

Apparently I have struck a nerve. I''ve struggled with how I want to respond.  I like and respect you and mean no ill will.  You assumed Eleven's intentions were to keep "his people" healthy.  The message was more simple than that, "keep as many as you can healthy".  Rather than consider that maybe the response was more general in nature you've spent the ensuing weeks throwing tribalism and righteous around as thinly veiled slurs, all the while being self righteous yourself.  Noone meant to insult or judge or disparage.  It was all well meaning advice with society as a whole in mind that has lead to this eloquent,  simmering perturbation. 

 

Regarding that article, or the portions of it you excerpted anyway...... my take is that professor, like so many others, are perceiving risk as an inward hazard, when it is really an outward hazard.  The message that is trying to be sent is not "protect yourself".  It is "protect others".  I suppose you can make a case that his profession may be essential and therefore the risk may be justifiable, but I'm not convinced given the ability to perform his functions remotely.  He's portraying his plight as that of a heroic victim.  The idea is to prevent him from turning his students into heroic victims. 

 

Well, you didn’t strike a nerve as that phrase is traditionally used.  I acknowledged - I can over think.  My subsequent references were designed to point out that over thinking wasn’t required in that particular instance and that I’m not alone when I do over think.   Candidly, I smiled when you wrote it.

I can’t comment on what you believe I was trying to say in response to what you believe someone else was trying to say.   That’s an equation with too many variables for me to solve.

I would use the phrase “person willing to freely assemble with others willing to freely assemble” instead of “heroic victim”.   I leave it there because I have no expertise, no vision of how and when this ends, that suggests one set of choices is better than another.  No one’s shown me a vision, either.  I thirst and am unable to make a less self righteous statement than that.

Banks released earnings, today.  They’re prepared for tsunamis of loss.   Each loss is a family, home, health care, day care, and retirement.  It’s not the banks that are screwed.

You don’t want people working?  What’s the end game and when does it arrive?  I hear what you don’t want.  What do you want, how long will you wait, at what cost to families, and how will you know when you’re finished?

In the meantime, I’m going to work tomorrow.  I’ll wear my mask, of course.  I’m having lunch at Ocean Prime.  My server for years, Pepper, won’t be there.  She moved back home in May, out of work and unable to afford living on her own.  I hope she’s well.  I now count eight servers, friends, who are gone.  Some were moms and dads.  On my way home, I’ll drop off dry cleaning with Sandy or Brenda.  They’re both still working, “thank God” as they say.   The drive will be comfortable because Tom at Firestone recharged my air conditioning last weekend.  His bays were packed.

Heroic victims?  I’m not sure they’d agree with your assessment.  They seem to be people who want to live and work when they don’t see an alternative.   I’m not getting an anti-intellectual, selfish, vibe from Brenda or Sandy.  Maybe I’m insensitive.

I have no quarrel with those who choose to stay home.  Twenty percent of my team does.  Best wishes, total respect.

Lastly, if you see, sense or feel any ‘heroic victim” in the writing, you’ve not read the piece you’re  discussing.  I like and respect you, too.  ?  

 

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Neo

[SwampD]

Neo, I’ve been going to work everyday throughout this. I even changed my schedule to work more than some just so that I would be the only one to work in a certain room. I’m part of probably 15 percent of the company that don’t work from home.

There is a huge difference between socially distancing and safe practices at a smart office, and having to serve thirty tables a day of people not wearing masks who think Covid is a hoax. I’m glad Pepper is home. At least she is alive. That should be enough.

And I will not weep for banks. Seems like they did just fine this quarter.

Edited July 15, 2020 by SwampD

[Weave]

@Neo  I won't burden the thread with a full quote. 

We certainly have burgeoning evidence that strongly suggests the journey to the end with person's freely willing to assemble being quite less manageable than the journey to the end with person's minimizing risky behavior.  Again, it's not inward risk.  It is outward risk.  Person's choosing to freely assemble are affecting the lives of person's who do not make that choice.  I'll posit that a true libertarian would not freely assemble in this environment because a true libertarian would not pursue a course of action that has a fair degree of possibility that the results of their action would affect another negatively.  Free assembly in this environment is NOT libertarian at all.

I don't equate servers and grocery workers with a Georgetown professor.  Only one of those has the ability to continue to earn a living in a way that doesn't put others at risk.  Brenda and Sandy aren't angling to be heroic victims.  They're just trying to make ends meet.  Dr. Professor is making a choice.  Brenda and Sandy aren't, really.

Noone wants people to not work.  Noone wants people to get sick either.  Some have a choice.  Some do not.  I have genuine empathy for those that do not have a choice.  I know many of them as well.  I call many of them friends as well.  And victims take many forms, some are economic and some are medical victims.  They are all real victims.  There is no need to create heroic victims.

I've only read what you posted.  I don't struggle with reading comprehension.  I may struggle with insufficient information at times.  It comes across as heroic victim to me. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Weave

[Neo]

Who thinks COVID’s a hoax?  Not I.  Some think the moon landing is a hoax.  You can believe it’s real and still have to pay the bills.  No one I mentioned thinks it’s a hoax.

I respect your choice to work. Me too.

Office work is nice, if you got it.  I do.   Those who don’t have offices have the real choices to make.  How long should Pepper stay home and who’s buying her kid’s diapers?  Can you socially distance in a sweaty garage, under hoods, sharing tools?  I dunno.

The banks weren’t the target of my sympathy.  I was thinking of the defeated dad, slumped on the sofa, his face in his hands .. and his kids asking “Mom, what’s wrong?”

 

[SwampD]

4 minutes ago, Neo said:

Who thinks COVID’s a hoax?  Not I.  Some think the moon landing is a hoax.  You can believe it’s real and still have to pay the bills.  No one I mentioned thinks it’s a hoax.

I respect your choice to work. Me too.

Office work is nice, if you got it.  I do.   Those who don’t have offices have the real choices to make.  How long should Pepper stay home and who’s buying her kid’s diapers?  Can you socially distance in a sweaty garage, under hoods, sharing tools?  I dunno.

The banks weren’t the target of my sympathy.  I was thinking of the defeated dad, slumped on the sofa, his face in his hands .. and his kids asking “Mom, what’s wrong?”

 

We are all buying her diapers, gladly. The stimulus checks have kept us all humming along. The economic impacts are scary, but we’ll get through this. I kinda think that those who have the most are scared the most.

And there are still plenty of people who think it’s a hoax.

Edited July 15, 2020 by SwampD

[Neo]

I’ve got to get ready for work!  If you have time, email me the essential jobs and the ‘need to work’ roles.  Careful where you put the college janitor and cafeteria worker.  No Professor, no class, no tacos,  no plastic forks.

1 minute ago, SwampD said:

We are all buying her diapers, gladly. The stimulus checks have kept us all humming along. The economic impacts are scary, but we’ll get through this. I kinda think that those who have the most are scared the most.

And there are still plenty of people who think it’s a hoax.

HUMMING ALONG!

[Weave]

Just now, Neo said:

I’ve got to get ready for work!  If you have time, email me the essential jobs and the ‘need to work’ roles.  Careful where you put the college janitor and cafeteria worker.  No Professor, no class, no tacos,  no plastic forks.

vs. no Aunt Ruth, no cousin Jimmy, no Daddy, no neighbor Carol.  Some things are temporary and replaceable.  Others, not so much.

[SwampD]

1 minute ago, Neo said:

I’ve got to get ready for work!  If you have time, email me the essential jobs and the ‘need to work’ roles.  Careful where you put the college janitor and cafeteria worker.  No Professor, no class, no tacos,  no plastic forks.

HUMMING ALONG!

Considering that the economy is shutdown to save lives, I can’t believe how well this country is faring. We do need some good news soon, though.

[Neo]

I’ve been Weaved into a Swamp.

[Weave]

Just now, Neo said:

I’ve been Weaved into a Swamp.

It's the journey, not the destination.

1 minute ago, SwampD said:

Considering that the economy is shutdown to save lives, I can’t believe how well this country is faring. We do need some good news soon, though.

I think you are on to something regarding the idea that those who have the most are most scared.

[SwampD]

4 minutes ago, Neo said:

I’ve been Weaved into a Swamp.

When it’s safe again, I’ll play the part of Pepper and serve up one of my signature manhattans. Consider yourself invited. I know Weave’ll have one.

[Weave]

2 minutes ago, SwampD said:

When it’s safe again, I’ll play the part of Pepper and serve up one of my signature manhattans. Consider yourself invited. I know Weave’ll have one.

In a couple of months the journey to do this may be more like a commute....

[Neo]

You’re on ....   I had a September trip to NYC planned.  Mrs. Neo and I were flying in to visit her girlfriends and their husbands.  We were going to see David Byrne at the Hudson Theater.  I don’t know the status of the trip.   My plan was to find you and go out with you and your brother.  You described his work while I watched The Met  on quarantine zoom.  Or was it Bocelli?  Or both?

Edited July 15, 2020 by Neo