Claude_Verret Posted July 2, 2020 Report Posted July 2, 2020 4 hours ago, North Buffalo said: Not following guidelines including quarantining if coming from or living in a hotspot... not just mask wearing, social distancing and hand washing. Yeh it doesnt preclude other reasons for the spread but it has shown stats wise if not purely scientifically to reduce the spread. Problem is scientist dont know who is carrying it so controlled studies are still being evaluated. Though the reduction in cases in NY and Westchester all suggest if not prove the point of wearing a damn mask... socially distancing reduces your potential exposure or transmitting. All I need to know is my wife and kids didnt get it because I went to a hotel room at first sign of a fever. We wore masks inside around kids when virus first hit. And my wife and I work different shifts. Washed hands cleaned surfaces, bagged scrubs as soon as we came inside. Wiped down inside of cars. We both were in the middle of it in hospitals. Me more than her. So go ahead and ignore protocols at your own risk. This debate is inane and frankly pisses me off after seeing so many deaths. Scientifically proven debate at this point is a waste of time when stats show mask wearing and social distancing works even if not perfectly. Anyone who denies the benefits of social distancing, mask wearing, hand washing etc. is ignoring the established science. At the same time, anyone who pins an increase of positive cases SOLELY on not adhering to the guidelines is ignoring the scientific method and they are wrong. Im not sure how I can make my position on this any clearer. The above two concepts are not mutually exclusive. 1
SwampD Posted July 2, 2020 Report Posted July 2, 2020 38 minutes ago, Claude_Verret said: Anyone who denies the benefits of social distancing, mask wearing, hand washing etc. is ignoring the established science. At the same time, anyone who pins an increase of positive cases SOLELY on not adhering to the guidelines is ignoring the scientific method and they are wrong. Im not sure how I can make my position on this any clearer. The above two concepts are not mutually exclusive. Nobody does not understand what you are saying. Isn't it kind of a moot point, though?
Claude_Verret Posted July 2, 2020 Report Posted July 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, SwampD said: Nobody does not understand what you are saying. Isn't it kind of a moot point, though? Not if you're an epidemiologist or public health official who wants the clearest picture and understanding of how the virus is evolving so as to implement the best methods to combat it going forward. And nobody? I think we've had a few posters who cleary didn't and possibly still don't understand the arguments im making.
SwampD Posted July 2, 2020 Report Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Claude_Verret said: Not if you're an epidemiologist or public health official who wants the clearest picture and understanding of how the virus is evolving so as to implement the best methods to combat it going forward. And nobody? I think we've had a few posters who cleary didn't and possibly still don't understand the arguments im making. Still a moot point. We get it. There may be other reasons for an uptick and epidemiologists need to figure that out. But just as there is no study that proves that, there is no study that says that easing of wearing masks and social distancing isn't the reason (which you said). Therefore we shouldn't use it as a reason not to wear them. Edited July 2, 2020 by SwampD
North Buffalo Posted July 2, 2020 Report Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Claude_Verret said: Anyone who denies the benefits of social distancing, mask wearing, hand washing etc. is ignoring the established science. At the same time, anyone who pins an increase of positive cases SOLELY on not adhering to the guidelines is ignoring the scientific method and they are wrong. Im not sure how I can make my position on this any clearer. The above two concepts are not mutually exclusive. Chappaqua would beg to differ...https://www.theexaminernews.com/covid-19-cluster-from-greeley-graduation-rises-to-19-positive-cases/ Soley yeh it can spread on surfaces that is why we wipe everything down coming into house as well. Edited July 2, 2020 by North Buffalo
Claude_Verret Posted July 2, 2020 Report Posted July 2, 2020 45 minutes ago, North Buffalo said: Chappaqua would beg to differ...https://www.theexaminernews.com/covid-19-cluster-from-greeley-graduation-rises-to-19-positive-cases/ Soley yeh it can spread on surfaces that is why we wipe everything down coming into house as well. How is anything in that article inconsistent with anything that I've posted?
Claude_Verret Posted July 2, 2020 Report Posted July 2, 2020 56 minutes ago, SwampD said: Still a moot point. We get it. There may be other reasons for an uptick and epidemiologists need to figure that out. But just as there is no study that proves that, there is no study that says that easing of wearing masks and social distancing isn't the reason (which you said). Therefore we shouldn't use it as a reason not to wear them. This post indicates that you still don't understand what I'm saying. I retired from posting and talking to people about this stuff about a month into the pandemic. It became exhausting. Time to go back. Before I go back ill second Neos recommendation to check out The Great Influenza. Another good read would be Carl Sagan's the Demon Haunted World. Carry on fellow Sabre Spacers.
Weave Posted July 2, 2020 Report Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Claude_Verret said: This post indicates that you still don't understand what I'm saying. I retired from posting and talking to people about this stuff about a month into the pandemic. It became exhausting. Time to go back. Before I go back ill second Neos recommendation to check out The Great Influenza. Another good read would be Carl Sagan's the Demon Haunted World. Carry on fellow Sabre Spacers. I get you ? So, I occupy this weird space where, I'm a gun guy, but I hate the gun culture and the automatic far right agenda that goes with it. I mention this because of the political implications of mask wearing. I was in a gun store today. Not a single person, employee or customer, was wearing a mask. And they looked at me like I had 3 heads when I walked in with a mask. I considered leaving and taking my business elsewhere, but let's face it, in that line of business I wasn't going to find another location that would be in compliance with the mask requirements. WTF people. It's a health related issue, not a political one. Edited July 2, 2020 by Weave
SwampD Posted July 2, 2020 Report Posted July 2, 2020 39 minutes ago, Claude_Verret said: This post indicates that you still don't understand what I'm saying. I retired from posting and talking to people about this stuff about a month into the pandemic. It became exhausting. Time to go back. Before I go back ill second Neos recommendation to check out The Great Influenza. Another good read would be Carl Sagan's the Demon Haunted World. Carry on fellow Sabre Spacers. I really do understand what you are saying. I also understand that after rereading my posts, which I wrote while at work, I can’t even figure out what hell I was trying to say. 1
Weave Posted July 2, 2020 Report Posted July 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, SwampD said: I really do understand what you are saying. I also understand that after rereading my posts, which I wrote while at work, I can’t even figure out what hell I was trying to say. Welcome to my world.
North Buffalo Posted July 2, 2020 Report Posted July 2, 2020 42 minutes ago, Claude_Verret said: How is anything in that article inconsistent with anything that I've posted? Because you are implying that these things dont work by stating the science hasnt gotten there yet. When actually much of it has. The full mechanism and how virulent and all the mutations and who gets affected and infected and why isnt fully understood sure. But mask wearing has been tested and does reduce the viral load, close proximity to an infected increases exposure, touching contaminated surfaces and not washing hands reduces risk, viral load due too poor indoor ventilation are all known exposure risks for this or any other virus. You should be discussing more the scientific issues with coming up with a vaccine and why some besides age are more at risk than others... That is not yet figured out fully. And you have discussed some of that but you still imply doing all the above is not full proof. Actually it is, just we as humans dont do it perfectly and make mistakes or simply ignore the above. Cook your meat as well kills viruses and bacteria. Bleach wipes works. I was in a high viral area made some little mistakes and caught it. Luckily I survived. Still I didnt spread it to my family because I quarantined early, wore a mask at home even before symptoms and I still wipe everything down when I come in. It is tough to change behavior, I get it. But much of this could be ameliorated if folks would just do these basic things. 1
Indabuff Posted July 3, 2020 Author Report Posted July 3, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Weave said: I get you ? So, I occupy this weird space where, I'm a gun guy, but I hate the gun culture and the automatic far right agenda that goes with it. I mention this because of the political implications of mask wearing. I was in a gun store today. Not a single person, employee or customer, was wearing a mask. And they looked at me like I had 3 heads when I walked in with a mask. I considered leaving and taking my business elsewhere, but let's face it, in that line of business I wasn't going to find another location that would be in compliance with the mask requirements. WTF people. It's a health related issue, not a political one. There are many folks that work in the field of conservation who face a similar conundrum. They enjoy hunting which typically means owning and appreciating firearms but also believe in preservation and protection of natural resources which doesn't quite fit the narrative of the typical gun owning spectrum. As for the masks I wouldn't expect anything less from this politically toxic environment we're living in. If one political party identified a cure for cancer the other party would do everything in their power to make sure it never reached the people that needed it because their party didn't discover it. I believe politics is our own worst enemy. We need to get out of our own way to improve this country. I suppose this post falls in the political territory and I apologize. Just trying to get the conversation back on track. Edited July 3, 2020 by Indabuff TLDR:. ***** politics and this virus, wear a mask 1
freester Posted July 3, 2020 Report Posted July 3, 2020 4 hours ago, Weave said: I get you ? So, I occupy this weird space where, I'm a gun guy, but I hate the gun culture and the automatic far right agenda that goes with it. I mention this because of the political implications of mask wearing. I was in a gun store today. Not a single person, employee or customer, was wearing a mask. And they looked at me like I had 3 heads when I walked in with a mask. I considered leaving and taking my business elsewhere, but let's face it, in that line of business I wasn't going to find another location that would be in compliance with the mask requirements. WTF people. It's a health related issue, not a political one. Just curious, what state were you in?
North Buffalo Posted July 3, 2020 Report Posted July 3, 2020 BTW way... in Radiology we call this TDS... "time distance and shielding..." reduces your exposure... same applies here.
Eleven Posted July 3, 2020 Report Posted July 3, 2020 5 hours ago, freester said: Just curious, what state were you in? Inebriated, probably. (Just kidding, weave) 1 1
Weave Posted July 3, 2020 Report Posted July 3, 2020 6 hours ago, freester said: Just curious, what state were you in? NY 27 minutes ago, Eleven said: Inebriated, probably. (Just kidding, weave) You just made The List.
That Aud Smell Posted July 3, 2020 Report Posted July 3, 2020 19 hours ago, PASabreFan said: I blame Google. “What has [it] done wrong?” 1
That Aud Smell Posted July 3, 2020 Report Posted July 3, 2020 I’ve been following some contrarian types on Twitter, just to get a feel for other perspectives on how the pandemic is being managed. It’s making my head hurt. From a contrarian, I read that Arizona’s death rate per case is now well below 1%, whereas months ago it was well above 10%. Then I read a mainstream report that Arizona’s ICUs are approaching capacity. Oft times, I hardly know what to think or believe. But masks, distancing, and washing remain my touchstones.
DarthEbriate Posted July 3, 2020 Report Posted July 3, 2020 33 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said: “What has [it] done wrong?” Too many things to count in a single lifetime. ?
SDS Posted July 3, 2020 Report Posted July 3, 2020 1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said: I’ve been following some contrarian types on Twitter, just to get a feel for other perspectives on how the pandemic is being managed. It’s making my head hurt. From a contrarian, I read that Arizona’s death rate per case is now well below 1%, whereas months ago it was well above 10%. Then I read a mainstream report that Arizona’s ICUs are approaching capacity. Oft times, I hardly know what to think or believe. But masks, distancing, and washing remain my touchstones. I have a high school friend who lives in Florida who routinely talks about the death rate being less than 0.1%. He barely passed high school and came up with that number by dividing the number of deaths in Florida by the total number of people in Florida. 1
shrader Posted July 3, 2020 Report Posted July 3, 2020 1 hour ago, SDS said: I have a high school friend who lives in Florida who routinely talks about the death rate being less than 0.1%. He barely passed high school and came up with that number by dividing the number of deaths in Florida by the total number of people in Florida. He’s not wrong. There is a use for that figure, but it’s just a matter of how you try to use it.
SDS Posted July 3, 2020 Report Posted July 3, 2020 49 minutes ago, shrader said: He’s not wrong. There is a use for that figure, but it’s just a matter of how you try to use it. Trust me. He’s not using that figure in any meaningful way. But I would like to know what possibly use that figure could be.
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