COVID-19

[GASabresIUFAN]

F....ing Virus.

Just had to re-schedule my daughter's wedding one year.  Can't have dancing if everyone has to be 6 feet apart.  

 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

15 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

F....ing Virus.

Just had to re-schedule my daughter's wedding one year.  Can't have dancing if everyone has to be 6 feet apart.  

 

Sure you could... it's called line dancing.

But, I'd be more concerned about the removal of masks to eat and especially drink, lol.

[ubkev]

My parents will be at my house on July 7th. Hooray! I'm an enormous hypocrite and piece of *****! They're coming from Florida where they have partied like spring breakers for the past 7 months. They won't dare ask me if it's ok to stay at my house on their return trip to NY. Nope! They ask my wife. My wife who can't say no to anything ever! "Oh they've done so much for us!" Yeah, I ***** know they have! Doesn't mean I want them to infect my wife and son. Then when they get to NY they'll claim they're coming from Pennsylvania to avoid self quarantine. This sucks! They suck! And I suck! *****, I hate myself!

[Ogre]

FTR, I believe that the sacrifices made by the people doing the right thing and staying home had the biggest role in NY’s recovery. 
How the hell did Ontario county, being 300+ miles from NYC, get herd immunity? If you really think that’s the case, and not that the good people of NY did the right thing, then I’d like talk to you about some land for sale. It isn’t full of glacial gravel and rocks. I swear. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

9 minutes ago, ubkev said:

My parents will be at my house on July 7th. Hooray! I'm an enormous hypocrite and piece of *****! They're coming from Florida where they have partied like spring breakers for the past 7 months. They won't dare ask me if it's ok to stay at my house on their return trip to NY. Nope! They ask my wife. My wife who can't say no to anything ever! "Oh they've done so much for us!" Yeah, I ***** know they have! Doesn't mean I want them to infect my wife and son. Then when they get to NY they'll claim they're coming from Pennsylvania to avoid self quarantine. This sucks! They suck! And I suck! *****, I hate myself!

What in the blazes are you all thinking, man?

If I were you I'd leave town and let them find an abandoned house.

Edited June 30, 2020 by New Scotland (NS)

[Claude_Verret]

2 hours ago, Curt said:

Not entirely addressing you specifically, sorry.

Just the whole back and forth with some saying we should be following medical/scientific guidelines more stringently, and others saying that we don’t REALLY know FOR SURE, that would help at all.

Come on people, I don’t REALLY know  FOR SURE that I’m going to wake up tomorrow morning, but I’m pretty sure of it, and I probably should plan accordingly.

I am saying that we should follow the guidelines stringently AND that we don't know for sure to what extent they are helping. Because we dont. Without getting into the weeds of molecular virology,  this pandemic and its spread goes beyond just public health mitigation measures, as important as they are.

[ubkev]

2 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

What in the blazes are you all thinking, man?

If I were you I'd leave town and let them find an abandoned house.

I have an awful misguided sense of loyalty to family. I'd burn the world down for them. I told you, I suck!

[ubkev]

After an hour on the phone I've finally convinced my parents to be tested. They're going tomorrow and they can't come up unless they've passed. No visiting me in PA and no skipping me and going straight home to NY.

[SwampD]

13 minutes ago, ubkev said:

After an hour on the phone I've finally convinced my parents to be tested. They're going tomorrow and they can't come up unless they've passed. No visiting me in PA and no skipping me and going straight home to NY.

Nice work. My mom’s 80th birthday is in two weeks. I think I’m going to get tested before I go.

[SABRES 0311]

3 hours ago, ubkev said:

My parents will be at my house on July 7th. Hooray! I'm an enormous hypocrite and piece of *****! They're coming from Florida where they have partied like spring breakers for the past 7 months. They won't dare ask me if it's ok to stay at my house on their return trip to NY. Nope! They ask my wife. My wife who can't say no to anything ever! "Oh they've done so much for us!" Yeah, I ***** know they have! Doesn't mean I want them to infect my wife and son. Then when they get to NY they'll claim they're coming from Pennsylvania to avoid self quarantine. This sucks! They suck! And I suck! *****, I hate myself!

Why would you say you hate yourself?

[Doohicksie]

3 hours ago, Claude_Verret said:

I am saying that we should follow the guidelines stringently AND that we don't know for sure to what extent they are helping. Because we dont. Without getting into the weeds of molecular virology,  this pandemic and its spread goes beyond just public health mitigation measures, as important as they are.

But we do.

No, we don't know all the microscopic details, but we have empirical evidence from states and countries that have suppressed the spread of the disease.  Various countries have enacted combination of testing, contact tracing, social distancing, disinfecting and mask use to reduce the spread and shrink the number of cases.  I don't need to know the details if I can look at it from a macro level and see that it worked for a whole state or whole country.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Doohickie

[Claude_Verret]

10 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

But we do.

No, we don't know all the microscopic details, but we have empirical evidence from states and countries that have suppressed the spread of the disease.  Various countries have enacted combination of testing, contact tracing, social distancing, disinfecting and mask use to reduce the spread and shrink the number of cases.  I don't need to know the details if I can look at it from a macro level and see that it worked for a whole state or whole country.

Ok. Google is certainly the way most folks are tracking this pandemic  I'll continue using pubmed.

 

[Stoner]

23 minutes ago, Claude_Verret said:

Ok. Google is certainly the way most folks are tracking this pandemic  I'll continue using pubmed.

 

Google isn't a way of tracking anything. It's a search engine. It even brings up results from pubmed.

[Claude_Verret]

16 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Google isn't a way of tracking anything. It's a search engine. It even brings up results from pubmed.

And how often do you read anything from pubmed beyond the abstract?

And Google is always all too willing to take you wherever your search string tells it to. You want data telling you that people not wearing masks is akin to murder? Google will take you there. Want data that says you should flush your masks down the toilet? Google will take you there too.

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by Claude_Verret

[Stoner]

45 minutes ago, Claude_Verret said:

And how often do you read anything from pubmed beyond the abstract?

And Google is always all too willing to take you wherever your search string tells it to. You want data telling you that people not wearing masks is akin to murder? Google will take you there. Want data that says you should flush your masks down the toilet? Google will take you there too.

 

The internet is not new. Anyone with half a brain knows by now how to evaluate sources and not just click on the first link as your answer.

This sounds like every doctor I've known over the age of 60.

[Eleven]

3 hours ago, ubkev said:

After an hour on the phone I've finally convinced my parents to be tested. They're going tomorrow and they can't come up unless they've passed. No visiting me in PA and no skipping me and going straight home to NY.

Thank you.

 

I didn't visit my parents inside their house until stage 3.  We would visit outside if it was warm enough.

[Two or less]

6 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Thank you.

 

I didn't visit my parents inside their house until stage 3.  We would visit outside if it was warm enough.

Same. My grandma lives with my parents and i didn't visit them from early March until stage 3. Even then it was mostly BBQ on the deck with some beers. Crazy times.

[Eleven]

29 minutes ago, Reino23 said:

Same. My grandma lives with my parents and i didn't visit them from early March until stage 3. Even then it was mostly BBQ on the deck with some beers. Crazy times.

I wouldn't even accept a glass of water from my mother until stage 3.  I'd bring a bottle of water if I was thirsty.  I didn't want anything to touch them or their things.

[North Buffalo]

Not visiting my 86 year old Dad til this thing has blown over.

[Claude_Verret]

8 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

The internet is not new. Anyone with half a brain knows by now how to evaluate sources and not just click on the first link as your answer.

This sounds like every doctor I've known over the age of 60.

Right. So youre validating your sources how exactly?  Im sure its by going to the peer reviewed literature and assessing the study design, methodology, results and conclusions. 

As usual, you're clueless.

 

[Weave]

Well, that went sideways.

If I understand Claude correctly, all he is saying is, the data re: masks is still being collected and evaluated so no firm conclusions should be made, BUT based on what has been observed so far, wearing masks appears to make sense as a reasonable deterrent to virus transfer in casual contact situations.

Or thats what I want Claude to be saying.  Either one.

[Claude_Verret]

Throw this into the pot as a potential cause for the rise in cases. As I said before changes on the micro level, in this case a single amino acid mutation in the spike protein domain involved in ACE2 receptor binding, can have effects as well. Appropriate grain of salt as this is a single study in a lab and has to be taken in context of all the other studies in this sub field being published.

 

In summary, we show that an S protein mutation that results in more transmissible SARS-CoV-2 also limits shedding of the S1 domain and increases S-protein incorporation into the virion. Further studies will be necessary to determine the impact of this change on the nature and severity of COVID-19.

 

https://www.scripps.edu/news-and-events/press-room/2020/20200611-choe-farzan-sars-cov-2-spike-protein.html

[Claude_Verret]

6 minutes ago, Weave said:

Well, that went sideways.

If I understand Claude correctly, all he is saying is, the data re: masks is still being collected and evaluated so no firm conclusions should be made, BUT based on what has been observed so far, wearing masks appears to make sense as a reasonable deterrent to virus transfer in casual contact situations.

Or thats what I want Claude to be saying.  Either one.

Kind of. There is certainly data out there in controlled lab environments that show that masks work to control the spread of virus. Im more saying that even knowing about this data, if you observe a rise in cases around the same time you see people not following recommended guidelines and you immediately pin that rise on the ignoring of guidelines, then that's unscientific reasoning and it ignores many of the other variables that could be contributing, like the study that I linked to above. Im not going to even pretend to be an epidemiologist, so I don't know how or if they even can tease out something like mask use and its impact from the data being gathered. The bottom line is that we can use the public health measures as best we can to get a handle on this thing, but the virus itself has a say in all of this as well.

[Weave]

14 minutes ago, Claude_Verret said:

Kind of. There is certainly data out there in controlled lab environments that show that masks work to control the spread of virus. Im more saying that even knowing about this data, if you observe a rise in cases around the same time you see people not following recommended guidelines and you immediately pin that rise on the ignoring of guidelines, then that's unscientific reasoning and it ignores many of the other variables that could be contributing, like the study that I linked to above. Im not going to even pretend to be an epidemiologist, so I don't know how or if they even can tease out something like mask use and its impact from the data being gathered. The bottom line is that we can use the public health measures as best we can to get a handle on this thing, but the virus itself has a say in all of this as well.

Got it.

[Curt]

I think Claude and some others are talking right past each other, with little attempt from either side to make themselves clearly understood or find common ground.

Basically, a totally unproductive dialogue.