COVID-19

[SABRES 0311]

Went to Panera today and saw a couple people eating in the back. I asked the employee if we were good to eat there and she said yes. As we are leaving another employee said we weren’t supposed to eat in the restaurant. Oh well, food was good. 

[Ogre]

How were you able to eat out in public with your mask on?

[SABRES 0311]

59 minutes ago, Ogre said:

How were you able to eat out in public with your mask on?

Only required to wear it if you are unable to maintain six feet distance. Restaurants were given the go ahead to open up today as well. Most people I’ve seen here only wear a mask when it’s required for entry. Other than that the world keeps turning.

Edit: To clarify there are establishments that require a mask to patronize and you are supposed to wear it if you cant maintain six feet. 

Edited May 23, 2020 by SABRES 0311

[Doohicksie]

Texas is about two weeks ahead of y'all.

In Texas restaurants have been open at 25% capacity the last two weeks, with a requirement of 6 feet minimum distance between groups (of maximum 6 people).  Today they went up to 50% capacity and bars are allowed to open at 25%.  I went by my local craft brewer today to pick up some beer and their taproom was open, so I had a brew there.  When you enter they have someone that squirts hand sanitizer on your hands.  The floor is marked with lines every 6 feet for the queue to order beer at the bar.  They only have a few tables set up.  Their patio was similarly sparse.

 

If this keeps up for long I suspect beer prices will increase substantially because the brewery taprooms will become places to see and be seen in, assuming that the people come out.

[Ogre]

29 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Only required to wear it if you are unable to maintain six feet distance. Restaurants were given the go ahead to open up today as well. Most people I’ve seen here only wear a mask when it’s required for entry. Other than that the world keeps turning.

Edit: To clarify there are establishments that require a mask to patronize and you are supposed to wear it if you cant maintain six feet. 

Oh. I see. 
 
My institution has been granted the gift of resuming in person training. Seven of us including Instructor separated in excess of six feet at all times and we all wear masks at all times, even when we move outside to get rowdy and make some good old Ironworker noise. 
 

We wear masks the whole time because we are accustomed to hard living. Fear is a reaction to being unprepared and we prepare like mother ***** so you can probably guess what fear level an Ironworker approaches the world with. 
 

We’re also very smart despite the disclaimer that I include with my posts. We understand that we need to exceed expectations to keep everyone safe. It’s not a macho thing. It’s a *****jng sensible thing. Not everyone gets to go home sometimes.

As for the masks, as a simple guy that respects his USDOL authorization to train,  I’ve spent hundreds and hundreds of hours learning about masks and air currents and decon...and it has all been to teach people to protect themselves, but this time, we’re wearing them to protect other people. It’s a very simple thing to do. It’s also very uncomfortable but as Ironworkers, we accept  it as every day life. We‘ve been deemed essential and have folks out there doing the most grueling work on the planet in masks and face shields, even when there’s six feet or more of separation. 
 

You do it you’re way, but it’s really about sacrifice now to end this thing. 
 

But whatever.

[SABRES 0311]

7 minutes ago, Ogre said:

Oh. I see. 
 
My institution has been granted the gift of resuming in person training. Seven of us including Instructor separated in excess of six feet at all times and we all wear masks at all times, even when we move outside to get rowdy and make some good old Ironworker noise. 
 

We wear masks the whole time because we are accustomed to hard living. Fear is a reaction to being unprepared and we prepare like mother ***** so you can probably guess what fear level an Ironworker approaches the world with. 
 

We’re also very smart despite the disclaimer that I include with my posts. We understand that we need to exceed expectations to keep everyone safe. It’s not a macho thing. It’s a *****jng sensible thing. Not everyone gets to go home sometimes.

As for the masks, as a simple guy that respects his USDOL authorization to train,  I’ve spent hundreds and hundreds of hours learning about masks and air currents and decon...and it has all been to teach people to protect themselves, but this time, we’re wearing them to protect other people. It’s a very simple thing to do. It’s also very uncomfortable but as Ironworkers, we accept  it as every day life. We‘ve been deemed essential and have folks out there doing the most grueling work on the planet in masks and face shields, even when there’s six feet or more of separation. 
 

You do it you’re way, but it’s really about sacrifice now to end this thing. 
 

But whatever.

Well the situation on the ground dictates the gear  I use. Things I consider are the laws governing where I’m at, who I’m with, the activity and the risk.
 

As for sacrifice and responsibility I appreciate the lesson. I wouldn’t know with four deployments to Afghanistan and a few to other places, one missed birth, a few missed Christmas’ and birthdays, sleeping in snow, rain and goat $#!t with armed men looking for you. The sound of 7.62 snapping by a few times and leading other men in those situations didn’t teach me much either.

But whatever.

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

Texas is about two weeks ahead of y'all.

In Texas restaurants have been open at 25% capacity the last two weeks, with a requirement of 6 feet minimum distance between groups (of maximum 6 people).  Today they went up to 50% capacity and bars are allowed to open at 25%.  I went by my local craft brewer today to pick up some beer and their taproom was open, so I had a brew there.  When you enter they have someone that squirts hand sanitizer on your hands.  The floor is marked with lines every 6 feet for the queue to order beer at the bar.  They only have a few tables set up.  Their patio was similarly sparse.

 

If this keeps up for long I suspect beer prices will increase substantially because the brewery taprooms will become places to see and be seen in, assuming that the people come out.

I hope it keeps.

I hope not, but I think we’re due for an uptick.

[Stoner]

8 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Well the situation on the ground dictates the gear  I use. Things I consider are the laws governing where I’m at, who I’m with, the activity and the risk.
 

As for sacrifice and responsibility I appreciate the lesson. I wouldn’t know with four deployments to Afghanistan and a few to other places, one missed birth, a few missed Christmas’ and birthdays, sleeping in snow, rain and goat $#!t with armed men looking for you. The sound of 7.62 snapping by a few times and leading other men in those situations didn’t teach me much either.

But whatever.

Whose risk do you consider?

[Ogre]

7 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Well the situation on the ground dictates the gear  I use. Things I consider are the laws governing where I’m at, who I’m with, the activity and the risk.
 

As for sacrifice and responsibility I appreciate the lesson. I wouldn’t know with four deployments to Afghanistan and a few to other places, one missed birth, a few missed Christmas’ and birthdays, sleeping in snow, rain and goat $#!t with armed men looking for you. The sound of 7.62 snapping by a few times and leading other men in those situations didn’t teach me much either.

But whatever.

After all you’ve experienced, I don’t understand why wearing a mask the entire time you’re in public is such a big deal!

Regardless of the law on the ground, this is a pandemic that affects everyone. I’m dying to get everything open and back to normal too. Unfortunately that has to go on the wish list. I want same but I have no problems comprising.

About wearing masks. Your law on the ground (and those signs at business entrances) telling you to wear a mask isn’t a mandate telling you to protect yourself, they are telling you to protect everyone else. Those face coverings are not PPE. They are to prevent your respiratory discharge from spreading. Those N95 masks with the exhaust valve? You should have a covering over the discharge valve! 
 
I like to expand a bit on respiratory discharge. That six foot rule comes from tests done in a sterile (in terms of real life air circulation scenarios). Real life indoor air currents bring the virus much farther than that. OSHA’s TWA  (time weighted average) really should be the concept that is put into practice. At the least we should all consider it. Think of it this way, the longer the carrier is in that indoor space breathing out virus, the lower you should make the TWA. Same for the non-infected person. The longer the possible exposure the lower the TWA. 
 

As for sacrifice, I chose my very dangerous line of work many years ago for my own reasons. I have never asked that what I do in the course of my employment be considered a sacrifice. It ain’t. When I talk about sacrifice I talk about doing the everyday hard things we need to do as a society to get this mother ***** under control and get as many of those poor bastards that lost their lives BACK out there without sacrificing human life.

For the Love of Creation, people. WEAR THE *****IN MASK!!! It’s the least that we can do!

[Zamboni]

A New Entry in the Race for a Coronavirus Vaccine: Hope
 

Scientists are increasingly optimistic that a vaccine can be produced in record time. But getting it manufactured and distributed will pose huge challenges.

In a medical research project nearly unrivaled in its ambition and scope, volunteers worldwide are rolling up their sleeves to receive experimental vaccines against the coronavirus — only months after the virus was identified.

Companies like Inovio and Pfizer have begun early tests of candidates in people to determine whether their vaccines are safe. Researchers at the University of Oxford in England are testing vaccines in human subjects, too, and say they could have one ready for emergency use as soon as September.

Moderna on Monday announced encouraging results of a safety trial of its vaccine in eight volunteers. There were no published data, but the news alone kindled hopes and sent the company’s stock soaring.

Animal studies have raised expectations, too. Researchers at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center on Wednesday published research showing that a prototype vaccine effectively protected monkeys from infection with the virus.

The findings will pave the way to development of a human vaccine, said the investigators. They have already partnered with Janssen, a division of Johnson & Johnson.

In labs around the world, there is now cautious optimism that a coronavirus vaccine, and perhaps more than one, will be ready sometime next year.

Scientists are exploring not just one approach to creating the vaccine, but at least four. So great is the urgency that they are combining trial phases and shortening a process that usually takes years, sometimes more than a decade.

The coronavirus itself has turned out to be clumsy prey, a stable pathogen unlikely to mutate significantly and dodge a vaccine.

“It’s an easier target, which is terrific news,” said Michael Farzan, a virologist at Scripps Research in Jupiter, Fla.

An effective vaccine will be crucial to ending the pandemic, which has sickened at least 4.7 million worldwide and killed at least 324,000. Widespread immunity would reopen the door to lives without social distancing and face masks.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, Ogre said:

After all you’ve experienced, I don’t understand why wearing a mask the entire time you’re in public is such a big deal!

Regardless of the law on the ground, this is a pandemic that affects everyone. I’m dying to get everything open and back to normal too. Unfortunately that has to go on the wish list. I want same but I have no problems comprising.

About wearing masks. Your law on the ground (and those signs at business entrances) telling you to wear a mask isn’t a mandate telling you to protect yourself, they are telling you to protect everyone else. Those face coverings are not PPE. They are to prevent your respiratory discharge from spreading. Those N95 masks with the exhaust valve? You should have a covering over the discharge valve! 
 
I like to expand a bit on respiratory discharge. That six foot rule comes from tests done in a sterile (in terms of real life air circulation scenarios). Real life indoor air currents bring the virus much farther than that. OSHA’s TWA  (time weighted average) really should be the concept that is put into practice. At the least we should all consider it. Think of it this way, the longer the carrier is in that indoor space breathing out virus, the lower you should make the TWA. Same for the non-infected person. The longer the possible exposure the lower the TWA. 
 

As for sacrifice, I chose my very dangerous line of work many years ago for my own reasons. I have never asked that what I do in the course of my employment be considered a sacrifice. It ain’t. When I talk about sacrifice I talk about doing the everyday hard things we need to do as a society to get this mother ***** under control and get as many of those poor bastards that lost their lives BACK out there without sacrificing human life.

For the Love of Creation, people. WEAR THE *****IN MASK!!! It’s the least that we can do!

Well said.  All those folks treating mask guidelines as an opportunity to show our government officials that they won’t be controlled are choosing the protest over the health of everyone around them.  The mask doesn’t protect the wearer, it protects the people around them from the wearer.  Your mask catches what you exhale, not what I exhale.
 

Going maskless is selfish.  Period.  You are choosing your convenience and your “freedom” (quotes very much intended here) over the well being of everyone around you.  I wear my mask to protect you from me.  Thank you very not at all for not returning the basic courtesy.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Weave

[Stoner]

Well said, Ogre and Weave. Promoting that six-foot rule while not pushing for masks early on was a mistake. Unfortunately I don't think we've learned all that much. I read about these restaurants who plan to keep groups of people six feet apart. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Scottysabres]

My sister-in-law and her 2 children are covid negative. 3 tests in the past 2 weeks.

So, all 3 tested positive awhile back, Trish is a nurse, she is back working the covid wing. All three had x-rays on their lungs throughout their ordeal, Trish and her son show extensive permanent lung damage, they are now on some type of inhaler. The daughter surprisingly does not.

All 3 are now taking Hydroxiquarquine, Trish tells me every Doctor she knows up at St. Joseph's is quietly telling the staff to do so before they start working with covid patients.

[SABRES 0311]

5 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Whose risk do you consider?

Anyone I can affect. 

[nfreeman]

So Japan, which did not impose a lockdown or undertake widespread testing, has evidently come through the worst of it without many casualties:  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-22/did-japan-just-beat-the-virus-without-lockdowns-or-mass-testing?utm_source=url_link&fbclid=IwAR3KgVaweOFTLSYqWoovnHXDom1vRSrBGhM84y8Rfx79wn8OO4QsdLZwZnI

 

Quote

 

No restrictions were placed on residents’ movements, and businesses from restaurants to hairdressers stayed open. No high-tech apps that tracked people’s movements were deployed. The country doesn’t have a center for disease control. And even as nations were exhorted to “test, test, test,” Japan has tested just 0.2% of its population -- one of the lowest rates among developed countries.

Yet the curve has been flattened, with deaths well below 1,000, by far the fewest among the Group of Seven developed nations. In Tokyo, its dense center, cases have dropped to single digits on most days. While the possibility of a more severe second wave of infection is ever-present, Japan has entered and is set to leave its emergency in just weeks, with the status already lifted for most of the country and likely to exit completely as early as Monday.

 

 

[SABRES 0311]

31 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

So Japan, which did not impose a lockdown or undertake widespread testing, has evidently come through the worst of it without many casualties:  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-22/did-japan-just-beat-the-virus-without-lockdowns-or-mass-testing?utm_source=url_link&fbclid=IwAR3KgVaweOFTLSYqWoovnHXDom1vRSrBGhM84y8Rfx79wn8OO4QsdLZwZnI

 

 

From what I saw in Okinawa (not Japan proper) they are hard working and I guess meticulous. Every morning they sweep the sidewalk in front of their business. The bathrooms are so much cleaner than most places I’ve been to.

[Tondas]

3 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

My sister-in-law and her 2 children are covid negative. 3 tests in the past 2 weeks.

So, all 3 tested positive awhile back, Trish is a nurse, she is back working the covid wing. All three had x-rays on their lungs throughout their ordeal, Trish and her son show extensive permanent lung damage, they are now on some type of inhaler. The daughter surprisingly does not.

All 3 are now taking Hydroxiquarquine, Trish tells me every Doctor she knows up at St. Joseph's is quietly telling the staff to do so before they start working with covid patients.

Sorry to hear that, man.  I'll keep a good thought for them all.

[Stoner]

46 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

As far as sacrificing to do our part I think that also means not letting fear cloud our judgement. This is not NYC. It’s a different situation therefore different measures. You can’t force the entire country to live as though the threat is the same everywhere. If I had to guess this is why people around the country are getting upset with local and state governments. 

It's not fear. It's logic. I don't buckle up when I drive out of any fear this is the day I'm going to have an accident.

Likewise, I wear my seat belt on the way to Tops down the street, not just on I-95.

[Stoner]

38 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

So Japan, which did not impose a lockdown or undertake widespread testing, has evidently come through the worst of it without many casualties:  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-22/did-japan-just-beat-the-virus-without-lockdowns-or-mass-testing?utm_source=url_link&fbclid=IwAR3KgVaweOFTLSYqWoovnHXDom1vRSrBGhM84y8Rfx79wn8OO4QsdLZwZnI

Maybe it's a stereotype, but I think of the Japanese culture and think of societal responsibility. Did people social distance without having to be told? Did they wear masks religiously, everywhere? Still, it's pretty interesting and will probably be studied extensively.

[Stoner]

3 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

My sister-in-law and her 2 children are covid negative. 3 tests in the past 2 weeks.

So, all 3 tested positive awhile back, Trish is a nurse, she is back working the covid wing. All three had x-rays on their lungs throughout their ordeal, Trish and her son show extensive permanent lung damage, they are now on some type of inhaler. The daughter surprisingly does not.

All 3 are now taking Hydroxiquarquine, Trish tells me every Doctor she knows up at St. Joseph's is quietly telling the staff to do so before they start working with covid patients.

Sorry to hear about their situation. I wonder what the thinking is re: taking hydroxychloroquine after recovery.

[freester]

55 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

So Japan, which did not impose a lockdown or undertake widespread testing, has evidently come through the worst of it without many casualties:  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-22/did-japan-just-beat-the-virus-without-lockdowns-or-mass-testing?utm_source=url_link&fbclid=IwAR3KgVaweOFTLSYqWoovnHXDom1vRSrBGhM84y8Rfx79wn8OO4QsdLZwZnI

 

 

Much less obesity and Diabetes than US. Also they didn’t have idiot governors sending covid positive patients back to nursing homes. This was largely responsible for the huge number of nursing home deaths. 

[SABRES 0311]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

It's not fear. It's logic. I don't buckle up when I drive out of any fear this is the day I'm going to have an accident.

Likewise, I wear my seat belt on the way to Tops down the street, not just on I-95.

There’s a fine line between fear and logic. Logic is doing what the situation in your area calls for. Fear is thinking everyone should abide by the maximum restrictions no matter what.

Theres a fine line between logic and stupidity. Going to a crowded bar and releasing prisoners but threatening imprisonments to business owners is stupid.

[Weave]

2 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

As far as sacrificing to do our part I think that also means not letting fear cloud our judgement. This is not NYC. It’s a different situation therefore different measures. You can’t force the entire country to live as though the threat is the same everywhere. If I had to guess this is why people around the country are getting upset with local and state governments. 

The only environment that really matters is proximity and time in enclosed spaces.  Plenty of rural opportunities for that environment too.  And if you are in an enclosed space for a significant amount of time it doesn’t matter if it is a rural Dollar General or a city office space.

[Doohicksie]

15 hours ago, SwampD said:

I hope not, but I think we’re due for an uptick.

I was expecting one here in Texas after the first wave of reopening.  The rate of new cases has stayed about the same.  I mean, we're supposed to be starving the virus to death by staying home and stuff, but then again, people have to live, work, etc.  I tend to be liberal in my politics and it pisses me off the way science has been politicized in this pandemic, but on the other hand, it's been interesting watching various communities try to balance public health against the economy.  If nothing else we're gathering data about what works and what doesn't, albeit not under controlled conditions.

[Scottysabres]

15 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Sorry to hear about their situation. I wonder what the thinking is re: taking hydroxychloroquine after recovery.

Trish says she can get the virus again. I did ask her if she could get pictures of her lung x-rays. She's a little pissed and upset about the lung damage, to say the least. Might not have been a good time to ask her.