2020 Off-season gameplan

[dudacek]

I'm glad it looks like there is no spot for Casey on this team. It's good for his development and it makes trading him easier.

But I would love it if he took a step and enabled a Tage/Casey/Cozens 4th line.

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I'm glad it looks like there is no spot for Casey on this team. It's good for his development and it makes trading him easier.

But I would love it if he took a step and enabled a Tage/Casey/Cozens 4th line.

If Mitts suddenly grew up and realized he's going to have to work harder than he's ever done to be an NHL player, it would be awesome. I think a year of the AHL might accomplish that and grow his game. 

[Brawndo]

One of the best offseason plans is having Your Franchise Defenseman bulk up to this. 

[Weave]

30 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If Mitts suddenly grew up and realized he's going to have to work harder than he's ever done to be an NHL player, it would be awesome. I think a year of the AHL might accomplish that and grow his game. 

I think he’s going to have to learn a new role, which will take ton of work and devotion.  As dynamic as his hands are, I don’t think the rest is NHL top 6 caliber.

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

One of the best offseason plans is having Your Franchise Defenseman bulk up to this. 

Omg, is that Dahlin? Looks like Dahlin. Dear lord, someone check on Nathan Gerbe, I think Rasmus got hungry. 

[Brawndo]

I’m seeing the term Thicc Boi used to describe him, I guess that’s a good thing 

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I’m seeing the term Thicc Boi used to describe him, I guess that’s a good thing 

If he increased his explosiveness on that first step he takes... my god, 60 pts is within reach. 

[dudacek]

15 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

One of the best offseason plans is having Your Franchise Defenseman bulk up to this. 

Come on man, Risto is not a franchise...

What? That's the other Rasmus?

[dudacek]

You know, the more I think about the forwards, the bigger my smile gets.

The 1st line (VO/Jack/Sam) was pretty damn good already and swapping Sam for Taylor makes it even better on paper.

I suspect Girgensons/Eakin/Okposo won't be a thing, but if it is we may lose more defensively than we gain offensively

I'd rather have Thompson/Cozens than Sheary/Vesey, but that's all projection. We had more bodies last year.

But the 2nd line has gone from Skinner/Mojo/Vlad to Skinner/Staal/Sam. Not only is that a ridiculous upgrade, it's the best non-Eichel line the Sabres have iced since Vanek/Roy/Pominville a decade ago.

[Gabrielor]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

One of the best offseason plans is having Your Franchise Defenseman bulk up to this. 

Yes. That's exactly what we're looking for.

Heiskanen and Makar looked like men last year. Dahlin still had that teenage-looking body. Once it's a fair fight, he'll be right on their level, or better.

[Thorner]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Cozens is not a better prospect then Mitts.  They were drafted in the same slot and honestly Cozens is a complete unknown right now.  We don't know if he is NHL ready or not.  Mitts has over 100 NHL games under is belt and improved significantly over the course of last season. You can't discount the NHL experience and the lessons learned from it.  Cozens may certainly become a better player someday, and if he makes the Sabres, he will certainly have a better cast around him then Mitts did, but right now Mitts is probably ahead of him on the development curve.

Also neither guy is guaranteed a slot on the NHL team this coming season.   We have 4 centers Eichel, Staal, Eakin and Lazar, 4 LW Hall, Skinner, VO and Girgensons and 4 RW Reinhart, KO, Thompson and Rieder.  Mitts and Cozens are going to have to beat out someone to make the team.  Honestly Thompson and Lazar are probably the weakest links. Rieder was brought in for a PK/defensive roll and should make the team because of it.  However KA just gave Thompson a 3 year deal, so he must have confidence that he is ready to contribute at the NHL level.

Should be an interesting camp, but if I had to guess, Cozens goes back to Jrs and Mitts to the AHL (or alternative training site if no AHL), with Mitts being the first callup. 

One spot difference, sorry, I'm too finicky. 

7 hours ago, Weave said:

What a weird change from the poster that spent most of the offseason proclaiming that the kids need to be on the roster.

If Cozens isn't a better prospect than Mitts, the team screwed the pooch twice at the draft.  And we're in deep doo doo in 21-22. 

This is a good call. It should be noted that at C, Cozens is still The Plan. 

[Thorner]

7 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Cozens has 2 things Mitts does not. 1) He's played a team game at a high level for multiple years. Mitts played a team game... once he went to Rochester but in the NHL he literally couldn't because his skill wasn't good enough and his hockey IQ wasn't fast enough. 

2) Cozens IMPO has a drive to get better and be better that Mitts seems to lack. 

3) I can only assume Cozens has a Rocky 4-like training regimen way up in Whitehorse, in contrast to Casey

[Thorner]

4 hours ago, Brawndo said:

One of the best offseason plans is having Your Franchise Defenseman bulk up to this. 

It's incredible we aren't talking about Dahlin more. If he takes the jump we should expect, I'm imagining how hard we'll be to stop with a Heiskanen back there, after the F additions we've made. (A goalie, PLEASE, Mr. Kevyn)

They said when he was drafted he'd grow into trucking people. Photo confirmation. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Thorny

[Gabrielor]

30 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It's incredible we aren't talking about Dahlin more. If he takes the jump we should expect, I'm imagining how hard we'll be to stop with a Heiskanen back there, after the F additions we've made. (A goalie, PLEASE, Mr. Kevyn)

They said when he was drafted he'd grow into trucking people. Photo confirmation. 

He's easy to ignore while figuring out roster holes, but if you want to talk about 'what's the most important thing for the Sabres to be a playoff team?', outside of the obvious things like additions, Eichel still god, and health, Rasmus Dahlin taking the Eichel step into a top top player is the #1 important thing that needs to happen.

 

We need Dahlin to be one of the best defenseman in the league if we want to get where we want to go, and I have great confidence in Dahlin. Ralph needs to allow him more freedom though.

[Thorner]

10 minutes ago, Gabrielor said:

He's easy to ignore while figuring out roster holes, but if you want to talk about 'what's the most important thing for the Sabres to be a playoff team?', outside of the obvious things like additions, Eichel still god, and health, Rasmus Dahlin taking the Eichel step into a top top player is the #1 important thing that needs to happen.

 

We need Dahlin to be one of the best defenseman in the league if we want to get where we want to go, and I have great confidence in Dahlin. Ralph needs to allow him more freedom though.

I don't think we NEED Dahlin to be that, but I think if he takes the same relative trajectory as Eichel has, which is assuredly very uncommon (but nonetheless predicted of Dahlin), we are a Cup contender, every year, on day 1. Purposely not mentioning other roster elements here. 

The dream was always a franchise C AND D on the same team. This is something other teams just don't have I think? Tampa does, I suppose. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Thorny

[Gabrielor]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I don't think we NEED Dahlin to be that, but I think if he takes the same relative trajectory as Eichel has, which is assuredly very uncommon (but nonetheless predicted of Dahlin), we are a Cup contender, every year, on day 1. Purposely not mentioning other roster elements here. 

The dream was always a franchise C AND D on the same team. This is something other teams just don't have I think? Tampa does, I suppose. 

We do need it for a cup, imo, and I have a lot of faith in Dahlin. If he's man-sized now, it'll be even easier.

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I don't think we NEED Dahlin to be that, but I think if he takes the same relative trajectory as Eichel has, which is assuredly very uncommon (but nonetheless predicted of Dahlin), we are a Cup contender, every year, on day 1. Purposely not mentioning other roster elements here. 

The dream was always a franchise C AND D on the same team. This is something other teams just don't have I think? Tampa does, I suppose. 

Tampa has even more than that, but they're the only 1 ottomh that truly has a franchise C (or possibly 2) & a franchise D.  (Pretty darn close the franchise G too.)

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

Tampa has even more than that, but they're the only 1 ottomh that truly has a franchise C (or possibly 2) & a franchise D.  (Pretty darn close the franchise G too.)

I'm not sure Tampa has a franchise C at this point. Is Point a franchise C? I suppose it's just semantics. Especially when Kucherov is a franchise W. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Thorny

[Curt]

5 hours ago, Brawndo said:

One of the best offseason plans is having Your Franchise Defenseman bulk up to this. 

So, I think this picture demonstrates why it can be wrong to compare 19 yr old Dahlin directly to guys like Makar, Heiskanen, or Hughes, even though those guys are only 1-2 years older.  Guys regularly make huge physical gains between ages 19-22.  Especially a kind of lanky 19 yr old 6’3” guy compared to more compact 5’11”-6’0” guys.  Dahlin just had/has a lot more physical development ahead of him.

And in their primes, even with similar skating and puck skills, a 6’3” 210lb Dahlin has a lot more potential than a 5’11” 190lb guy.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Curt

[Gabrielor]

14 minutes ago, Curt said:

So, I think this picture demonstrates why it can be wrong to compare 19 yr old Dahlin directly to guys like Makar, Heiskanen, or Hughes, even though those guys are only 1-2 years older.  Guys regularly make huge physical gains between ages 19-22.  Especially a kind of lanky 19 yr old 6’3” guy compared to more compact 5’11”-6’0” guys.  Dahlin just had/has a lot more physical development ahead of him.

And in their primes, even with similar skating and puck skills, a 6’3” 210lb Dahlin has a lot more potential than a 5’11” 190lb guy.

100%. Makar and Heiskanen, especially, are full growth. Dahlin wasn't last year.

[Thorner]

Dahlin was setting records for his age in his age 18 year, Heiskanen wasn't in the NHL yet during his 18th year. Dahlin's age 18 year was better than Heiskanen's age 19 year. Dahlin's age 19 year was much better than Heiskanen's age 19 year. 

Heiskanen really bumped up his game his age 20 year. I think Dahlin will too. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Thorny

[Thorner]

19-20 opening night roster. x = slotted above their reasonable expected capabilities

Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart

Skinner - Johansson (x) - Sobotka (x)

Vesey - Mittelstadt (x) - Sheary

Girgensons - Larsson - Okposo

 

20-21 projected

Hall - Eichel - Olofsson

Skinner - Staal - Reinhart

Thompson (x?) - Eakin - Cozens (x?)

Girgensons - Lazar - Okposo

 

Pushing the Xs down the lineup represents significant potential improvement. A betting man says we get at least one of those ? marks to go our way. I'd say we go from 3 spots inadequately filled to likely 1 or potentially zero, and the riskier propositions hold positions much less critical to success. 

Non negligible chance we have two wingers on the second line who are able to, with the addition of a true 2C in Staal (hopefully), actually exceed their role. 

 

[dudacek]

55 minutes ago, Thorny said:

19-20 opening night roster. x = slotted above their reasonable expected capabilities

Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart

Skinner - Johansson (x) - Sobotka (x)

Vesey - Mittelstadt (x) - Sheary

Girgensons - Larsson - Okposo

 

20-21 projected

Hall - Eichel - Olofsson

Skinner - Staal - Reinhart

Thompson (x?) - Eakin - Cozens (x?)

Girgensons - Lazar - Okposo

 

Pushing the Xs down the lineup represents significant potential improvement. A betting man says we get at least one of those ? marks to go our way. I'd say we go from 3 spots inadequately filled to likely 1 or potentially zero, and the riskier propositions hold positions much less critical to success. 

Non negligible chance we have two wingers on the second line who are able to, with the addition of a true 2C in Staal (hopefully), actually exceed their role. 

 

Separate from your point, which I completely agree with, but inspired by your lineup chart: don’t forget about Tobias Reider.

I expect he is penciled in right now in the starting 12. I think he has been handpicked to be on the first PK unit which will keep him in the lineup most nights.

He’s kinda like Eakin in the sense that he’s coming off a bad patch,  but he’s got a history of being trusted defensively and can score 10-15 goals and 30 points. He actually got 48 Selke votes one year. 

Remember how Ralph kind of resurrected Girgensons game last year? Rieder (and Eakin) approach the game with the same kinda mindset as Z. I can see scenarios where they are used as a line of terriers to hound the puck.

The year Zemgus had 15 goals, Rieder had 13 and Eakin 19. Unlike Zemgus, the other two have hit those numbers multiple times. Be interesting to see if Ralph can re-ignite their games.

I suspect Ralph will use them as hounds and tell Cozens, Thompson, Asplund and Mittelstadt that when they are as detailed and hustle as much as those three (and, I guess Lazar as well) they will be in the lineup.

Edited October 13, 2020 by dudacek

[dudacek]

58 minutes ago, Thorny said:

19-20 opening night roster. x = slotted above their reasonable expected capabilities

Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart

Skinner - Johansson (x) - Sobotka (x)

Vesey - Mittelstadt (x) - Sheary

Girgensons - Larsson - Okposo

 

20-21 projected

Hall - Eichel - Olofsson

Skinner - Staal - Reinhart

Thompson (x?) - Eakin - Cozens (x?)

Girgensons - Lazar - Okposo

 

Pushing the Xs down the lineup represents significant potential improvement. A betting man says we get at least one of those ? marks to go our way. I'd say we go from 3 spots inadequately filled to likely 1 or potentially zero, and the riskier propositions hold positions much less critical to success. 

Non negligible chance we have two wingers on the second line who are able to, with the addition of a true 2C in Staal (hopefully), actually exceed their role. 

 

Separate from your point, which I completely agree with, but inspired by your lineup chart: don’t forget about Tobias Reider.

I expect he is penciled in right now in the starting 12. I think he has been handpicked to be on the first PK unit which will keep him in the lineup most nights.

He’s kinda like Eakin in the sense that he’s in a bad patch but he’s got a history of being trusted defensively and can score 10-15 goals. He even got 48 Selke votes one year.

Edited October 13, 2020 by dudacek

[dudacek]

Remember how Ralph kinda reignited Girgensons game last year and saved Lazar’s career? There is the potential there for Rieder and Eakin. I can see them joining Z at times on a forechecking line of terriers.

Surprising to me, but they collectively scored nearly 50 goals (on different times, obviously) in 2015.

I would not be surprised if Ralph holds them up as hounds in front of Cozens, Casey, Thompson and Asplund and says “play that hard and with that much detail and you can play every night.”