2020 Off-season gameplan

[Weave]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

One overlooked element of the direction this team is going: speed.

Staal has slowed, and can't match Mojo, but Larsson, IMO, was our slowest forward.

Hall, Reider and Cozens can flat-out fly. Big upgrade in that area over Kahun, Frolik and Vesey

Yup.  Larsson and Kahun didn't fit the type of team they wanted to ice.

[Shootica]

I've got to imagine that part of the reason that Hall chose to sign here was some sort of verbal agreement that he'd be playing (or at least get a very long look) next to Jack.  So I'm going to assume that they're together until proven otherwise.

I like the lines that @Gabrielor put together, obviously assuming that Cozens comes in at camp and shows he's ready for that role.

I think our attention needs to turn to defense and goaltending now.  If we can get another solid bottom 4 LHD and find a replacement for Hutton, we'll be in pretty good shape.

[Gabrielor]

9 hours ago, Taro T said:

Cozens is NOT starting the year as the 2RW.  If he earns it during the year, awesome.  But he's not starting there.

I'd MUCH rather start our promising rookie on the wing with 2 veteran all stars, than Cody Eakin.

Think of Skinner-Staal-Cozens and Thompson-Eakin-Reinhart as two middle six lines, not a 2nd/3rd line. 

This setup is significantly better balanced, and puts guys in a better position to succeed than arbitrarily putting Cozens on a '3rd line' just because 'he should be there'. Rubbish. 

[Gabrielor]

27 minutes ago, Shootica said:

I've got to imagine that part of the reason that Hall chose to sign here was some sort of verbal agreement that he'd be playing (or at least get a very long look) next to Jack.  So I'm going to assume that they're together until proven otherwise.

I like the lines that @Gabrielor put together, obviously assuming that Cozens comes in at camp and shows he's ready for that role.

I think our attention needs to turn to defense and goaltending now.  If we can get another solid bottom 4 LHD and find a replacement for Hutton, we'll be in pretty good shape.

Oh yeah, I'm consistent on that. If Cozens looks like Mittelstadt circa 2018/2019 camps, you send him back to the WHL, and probably roll:

Skinner-Staal-Thompson

Ruotsalainen-Eakin-Reinhart

 

I have a lot more faith in Cozens in y1 though, specifically because he'll have the support cast Mittelstadt never did, and because he's a better prospect than Mitts.

[GASabresIUFAN]

59 minutes ago, Gabrielor said:

Oh yeah, I'm consistent on that. If Cozens looks like Mittelstadt circa 2018/2019 camps, you send him back to the WHL, and probably roll:

Skinner-Staal-Thompson

Ruotsalainen-Eakin-Reinhart

 

I have a lot more faith in Cozens in y1 though, specifically because he'll have the support cast Mittelstadt never did, and because he's a better prospect than Mitts.

Cozens is not a better prospect then Mitts.  They were drafted in the same slot and honestly Cozens is a complete unknown right now.  We don't know if he is NHL ready or not.  Mitts has over 100 NHL games under is belt and improved significantly over the course of last season. You can't discount the NHL experience and the lessons learned from it.  Cozens may certainly become a better player someday, and if he makes the Sabres, he will certainly have a better cast around him then Mitts did, but right now Mitts is probably ahead of him on the development curve.

Also neither guy is guaranteed a slot on the NHL team this coming season.   We have 4 centers Eichel, Staal, Eakin and Lazar, 4 LW Hall, Skinner, VO and Girgensons and 4 RW Reinhart, KO, Thompson and Rieder.  Mitts and Cozens are going to have to beat out someone to make the team.  Honestly Thompson and Lazar are probably the weakest links. Rieder was brought in for a PK/defensive roll and should make the team because of it.  However KA just gave Thompson a 3 year deal, so he must have confidence that he is ready to contribute at the NHL level.

Should be an interesting camp, but if I had to guess, Cozens goes back to Jrs and Mitts to the AHL (or alternative training site if no AHL), with Mitts being the first callup. 

[LGR4GM]

Cozens is absolutely a better prospect than Mitts. 

I would be shocked if Cozens went back to the WHL. 

[WildCard]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Cozens is not a better prospect then Mitts.

Cozens is 10000% a better prospect

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

They were drafted in the same slot

Which means nothing

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Mitts has over 100 NHL games under is belt and improved significantly over the course of last season. You can't discount the NHL experience and the lessons learned from it. 

Mitts hasn't improved at all, that's the issue

Edited October 12, 2020 by WildCard

[LGR4GM]

Just now, WildCard said:

Cozens is 10000% a better prospect

I think it depends on how we define prospect but Cozens has a lot more going than Mitts did. Mitts right now is no longer a prospect in my eyes. He is in a make a break year where he needs to show something. 

[Gabrielor]

11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Cozens is not a better prospect then Mitts.  They were drafted in the same slot and honestly Cozens is a complete unknown right now.  We don't know if he is NHL ready or not.  Mitts has over 100 NHL games under is belt and improved significantly over the course of last season. You can't discount the NHL experience and the lessons learned from it.  Cozens may certainly become a better player someday, and if he makes the Sabres, he will certainly have a better cast around him then Mitts did, but right now Mitts is probably ahead of him on the development curve.

Also neither guy is guaranteed a slot on the NHL team this coming season.   We have 4 centers Eichel, Staal, Eakin and Lazar, 4 LW Hall, Skinner, VO and Girgensons and 4 RW Reinhart, KO, Thompson and Rieder.  Mitts and Cozens are going to have to beat out someone to make the team.  Honestly Thompson and Lazar are probably the weakest links. Rieder was brought in for a PK/defensive roll and should make the team because of it.  However KA just gave Thompson a 3 year deal, so he must have confidence that he is ready to contribute at the NHL level.

Should be an interesting camp, but if I had to guess, Cozens goes back to Jrs and Mitts to the AHL (or alternative training site if no AHL), with Mitts being the first callup. 

Cozens is, and it isn't close. His D+1 (hell, D+0) vs Mitts' aren't close. 

Mittelstadt was significantly hurt by a dipshit GM making a horrible trade, then throwing the kid into the fire to fix it, but that doesn't change the fact that Mittelstadt pre-NHL vs. Cozens pre-NHL are at 2 different talent levels.

 

Agreed that Cozens shouldn't be guaranteed a spot, and neither should any prospect that isn't elite (Eichel and Dahlin are the exceptions in Buffalo's case).

[Weave]

What a weird change from the poster that spent most of the offseason proclaiming that the kids need to be on the roster.

If Cozens isn't a better prospect than Mitts, the team screwed the pooch twice at the draft.  And we're in deep doo doo in 21-22. 

[Gabrielor]

10 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Cozens is 10000% a better prospect

Which means nothing

Mitts hasn't improved at all, that's the issue

That's the key. He hasn't been able to play at NHL speed. His athleticism was bad, and hasn't improved enough. All he's got going for him is his draft status, and puck handling skills, and the latter isn't enough to guarantee a NHL trajectory.

This is a year where if Mittelstadt doesn't take it very seriously, he'll be a NHL journeyman at best, and completely out of the league at worst.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Weave said:

What a weird change from the poster that spent most of the offseason proclaiming that the kids need to be on the roster.

If Cozens isn't a better prospect than Mitts, the team screwed the pooch twice at the draft.  And we're in deep doo doo in 21-22. 

Cozens has 2 things Mitts does not. 1) He's played a team game at a high level for multiple years. Mitts played a team game... once he went to Rochester but in the NHL he literally couldn't because his skill wasn't good enough and his hockey IQ wasn't fast enough. 

2) Cozens IMPO has a drive to get better and be better that Mitts seems to lack. 

[sabresparaavida]

I would like a Risto for Copp trade now, with picks to balance it out.

 

Hall-Eichel-Thompson

Skinner-Staal-Reinhart

Oloffson-Copp-Cozens

Girgs-Eakin-Okposo

Lazar/Rieder 

 

[Gabrielor]

1 minute ago, sabresparaavida said:

I would like a Risto for Copp trade now, with picks to balance it out.

 

Hall-Eichel-Thompson

Skinner-Staal-Reinhart

Oloffson-Copp-Cozens

Girgs-Eakin-Okposo

Lazar/Rieder 

 

I would do this trade immediately.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Gabrielor

[French Collection]

I liked Mitts at that draft. I still have some hope for him but I see him going home to the Wild as a reclamation project for them.

He has some value as a cost controlled 1st round prospect.

[Gabrielor]

Just now, French Collection said:

I liked Mitts at that draft. I still have some hope for him but I see him going home to the Wild as a reclamation project for them.

He has some value as a cost controlled 1st round prospect.

If Lias Andersson for the 60th pick is any indication, Mittelstadt's value probably isn't great.

 

Granted, Mittelstadt will definitely have more value than Lias, for a couple of reasons, but probably not enough to get something of note in a trade.

 

The best thing we can do for Mittelstadt this year what exactly what they did with Thompson to start last year. Rochester immediately, you'll be back when you've earned it. In the meantime, you'll get the best minutes we have in Rochester. Don't waste them.

[dudacek]

If we listen to Ralph and Kevyn, the lines will be dictated by primarily by creating the most favourable matchups.

Their composition might be dictated on what Thompson and Cozens can bring.

[Gabrielor]

Maybe this needs it's own thread, but now with the Hall news (showing the organization does indeed have a pulse):

 

I'd love to get Lawrence Pilut back

[irregularly irregular]

41 minutes ago, Gabrielor said:

If Lias Andersson for the 60th pick is any indication, Mittelstadt's value probably isn't great.

 

Granted, Mittelstadt will definitely have more value than Lias, for a couple of reasons, but probably not enough to get something of note in a trade.

 

The best thing we can do for Mittelstadt this year what exactly what they did with Thompson to start last year. Rochester immediately, you'll be back when you've earned it. In the meantime, you'll get the best minutes we have in Rochester. Don't waste them.

The best thing we can do for Mittelstadt this year what exactly what they did with Thompson to start last year. Rochester immediately, you'll be back when you've earned it. In the meantime, you'll get the best minutes we have in Rochester. Don't waste them. If you don't have what it takes to make it back to Buffalo next season, at least make yourself attractive to the good people of Seattle for the expansion draft. You can get your next contract from them. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by irregularly irregular
spelling

[GASabresIUFAN]

24 minutes ago, Weave said:

What a weird change from the poster that spent most of the offseason proclaiming that the kids need to be on the roster.

If Cozens isn't a better prospect than Mitts, the team screwed the pooch twice at the draft.  And we're in deep doo doo in 21-22. 

I want the kids and still do, but I can also read the tea leaves, look at KA has done and it’s clear putting kids on this team isn’t his priority.  
Mitts and Cozens are going to have to beat out guys like Rieder, Thompson and/or Lazar to make this team.  

All this BS that Mitts hasn’t improved is bull.  Taylor, his AHL coach and someone whose opinion we should respect says otherwise. He had Casey killing penalties and in the last 30 seconds to protect a one goal lead.  He has also stated that Casey got better without the puck and after a rough start his offense came around.  

No prospect’s development is a straight line and Casey was burdened by stupid expectations created by people like Pronman and our throwing him into a role he wasn’t ready for.  This kid has mad skills and if he gets in the right situation he’ll blossom into a top 6 forward.  That situation could be this coming season, especially if VO is moved to 2RW.  The biggest issue with Casey was physical and mental maturity.  Taylor said he has taken huge steps in those areas as well.
 

 

[Weave]

Bust.

 

😇

[Gabrielor]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I want the kids and still do, but I can also read the tea leaves, look at KA has done and it’s clear putting kids on this team isn’t his priority.  
Mitts and Cozens are going to have to beat out guys like Rieder, Thompson and/or Lazar to make this team.  

All this BS that Mitts hasn’t improved is bull.  Taylor, his AHL coach and someone whose opinion we should respect says otherwise. He had Casey killing penalties and in the last 30 seconds to protect a one goal lead.  He has also stated that Casey got better without the puck and after a rough start his offense came around.  

No prospect’s development is a straight line and Casey was burdened by stupid expectations created by people like Pronman and our throwing him into a role he wasn’t ready for.  This kid has mad skills and if he gets in the right situation he’ll blossom into a top 6 forward.  That situation could be this coming season, especially if VO is moved to 2RW.  The biggest issue with Casey was physical and mental maturity.  Taylor said he has taken huge steps in those areas as well.
 

 

Propsects should have to earn jobs. Mittelstadt is in the situation he's in, because the management team gave him a free pass in 2018, then started him with Tage Thompson and Vladimir Sobotka. Earning it, and fit, matter. There's your 'let the kids play' in action. Crushed in the NHL right away, loses confidence, hasn't recovered yet.

Cozens will have to earn it, but he has the decided edge in fit (Staal/Skinner vs. 2nd year-Thompson/Sobotka)

[LabattBlue]

With the cap space getting tighter, I think it's a good possibility KO gets bought out next summer.  Would only be a cap hit of $1mil for each of the next 4 years.

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/kyle-okposo

[LabattBlue]

I'd still like to see some physical play/grit added to the bottom 6 forwards and 3rd blueline pairing.  We were lacking there the last few years, and none of the off-season moves address this.

 

Even if they are signed as the 13th forward and 7th defenseman.

[LabattBlue]

17 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

With the cap space getting tighter, I think it's a good possibility KO gets bought out next summer.  Would only be a cap hit of $1mil for each of the next 4 years.

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/kyle-okposo

I read it wrong.  I was looking at the buyout cost, not the cap hit.  NVM.