2020 Off-season gameplan

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Seems like he's a bit of a DB, but isn't Erik Haula pretty much the perfect UFA signing for the Sabres?

Two-way 30-40 point centre who can shift to the wing if needed and move up and down the lineup.

Skinner Eichel XXX

Olofsson Staal Reinhart

XXX Haula XXX

XXX XXX Okposo

Lazar

XXX= Kahun, Cozens, Mittelstadt, Thompson, Asplund, plus a Girgensons type acquisition.

I'd flip Skinner and Olofsson, but that's a nitpick. 

Haula seems pretty risky to me due to recent injury concerns. I'd look other spots first, personally. That lineup is definitely still lacking a checking line RW that I wouldn't be comfortable giving to any of the players you mentioned. 

I mean, it can be a bonafide top 6 W as well, but seeing as those are harder to come by, I'd settle for that two-way, more defensive player. 

I can see the LW/RW spots on the 3rd line being filled by Kahun and Cozens, and the 4th line LW by a Girgensons, and I'd actually be good with Lazar as the 4C I think if we get a good defensive 3C (Fantasy Land Copp, for example). 

Like I said, aside from that C, I'm hoping for that strong-defensively RWer. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Thorny

[Curt]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

As a Sabre would you consider him worth the price? And do you consider him to be a second-line caliber of player? If he is a second line player and plays a more hard charging style of play then the price quotes that you posted would make him a reasonable player to acquire. 

I think he is pretty good, versatile top-6 player.  I don’t think he has a hard charging style though.

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I'd flip Skinner and Olofsson, but that's a nitpick. 

Haula seems pretty risky to me due to recent injury concerns. I'd look other spots first, personally. That lineup is definitely still lacking a checking line RW that I wouldn't be comfortable giving to any of the players you mentioned. 

I mean, it can be a bonafide top 6 W as well, but seeing as those are harder to come by, I'd settle for that two-way, more defensive player. 

Not the "girgensons-type acquisition?" And I thought Okposo was the checking line RW?

And Staal has addressed your "fix the centre-spine first" concerns?

[Thorner]

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not the "girgensons-type acquisition?" And I thought Okposo was the checking line RW?

And Staal has addressed your "fix the centre-spine first" concerns?

The Girgensons type I have at 4th line LW. And yes KO is on RW on a checking line. 

I really shouldn't have used the word "checking" there, I clarified after but it muddled my point. It's not so much a "checking line" RWer I want, but a defensively sound winger that (while accumulating a large number of points is not an necessity) facilitates offence - allowing the skilled players to "do their thing". Like how Panarin's line exploded with the inclusion of Fast. 

Sticking someone like Thompson or whoever into the top 6 is too likely to involve the other line mates having to actively make up for him. 

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

And Staal has addressed your "fix the centre-spine first" concerns?

It addresses the hole, before Larsson made another one. Confusing again on my part - when I said "spots" I meant look other spots for that CENTRE. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Thorny

[dudacek]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It addresses the hole, before Larsson made another one. 

This is what I think too. That's why I'd rather add a Haula-type than a Fast-type —  3C is more important than M6W.

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

This is what I think too. That's why I'd rather add a Haula-type than a Fast-type —  3C is more important than M6W.

We need both I think. If the goal is playoffs, I think we need both, yes. 

We only have 2 NHL RWers right now, and one plays on the 4th line. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Thorny

[Thorner]

We aren't asking for the moon anymore like we were with Botterill. Not only because KA has proven he can actually brining in a C, but he already did it for no extra cost, we have the cap to add these two players, and they aren't exactly unicorn additions. 

I don't have a problem with expecting them to add two more forwards, a defensive C and defensive RW. UFA is even an option here, and we have a D surplus to mitigate. 

Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart

Skinner - Staal - XXX

Kahun - XXX - Cozens

Girgensons - Lazar - Okposo

Dahlin - Jokiharju

McCabe - Ristolainen/Miller/Montour

Samuelsson - Ristolainen/Miller/Montour

...we need to move a D-man, if we pick up one of the two F assets we need in that swap, we are looking at one reasonable UFA move for the other. There's even still time to look at the bottom pair on the left side and goalie. 

                        

Edited September 22, 2020 by Thorny

[Thorner]

Olofsson, Kahun, Cozens, Dahlin, Jokiharju, Samuelsson....that's enough "kids" to be getting on with. 

Thompson can be the 13th forward. That isn't a bench riding position, there are always going to be injuries. 

Mittelstadt and Asplund are literally non-entities until they FORCE their way into the lineup. "Looking to develop them" is not a priority for a team that knows it needs to make a run at the playoffs. 
 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Thorny

[Brawndo]

5 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

My bad. My source basically said that the deal at this point is pretty unlikely, that team is unlikely to sell both those assets at this point in time, and now that we have staal, there is no need to sell the farm for them. 
 

My source did say to keep an eye on Vegas and Calgary as possible trade teams- mentioned Marchessault as an under the radar player that could be dealt this offseason.

 

Thanks for sharing, I believe the Sabres were talking to Vegas about Marchessault around the trade deadline. 

Any updates on possible players for 8th OA? I believe you mentioned that KA was high on Rossi in the past.

 

On a different topic. What about Nino Niederreiter as a possible trade target? Lance Lysowski mentioned him as a possible target. Cap hit of 5.2 for the next two years but actually salary is 4.3 Million this year and 5.8 next.  Low point total, but has good defensive metrics and had success playing on Staal's Wing in Minnesota. Can play RW/LW

Skinner-Staal-Nino is a bonafide Second NHL Line 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Nino would be great, but how do you make the $ work.  Someone else has to go to bring in that kind of salary.  Are you better off with Nino or signing two $3 mill players?

[Brawndo]

10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Nino would be great, but how do you make the $ work.  Someone else has to go to bring in that kind of salary.  Are you better off with Nino or signing two $3 mill players?

There are a couple ways to look at this. Right now the Sabres have 47.3 Million on Their Cap right now. 19 Million of that has already been paid in the form of bonuses on July 1st. 

Trading Johansson for Staal saved the Sabres one million in actual cash and 1.2 Million in Cap Space

Plus Neiderreiter's actual money owed this season is 4.2 while his cap hit is 5.2. Between those two players there is a savings of 2 million in actual cash for the 2020-21 Season. 

Even if Pegula sets a 72.5 Million Cash Cap, KA could have a cap of 74.5 as the two extra million would not need to be paid in actual dollars.

Montour is projected at 4.8 Million AAV by Evolving Wild. Even if he gets a slight raise to 4 Million, there is no way they are keeping him and Risto's 5.4 Million Cap Hit.

 

[dudacek]

Vancouver sportsradio had goalie expert Kevin Woodley on talking about how Marc-Andre Fleury's career was resurrected by Mike Bales fixing some sloppy technique that had slipped into his game. He also said Fleury has not lost his athleticism, but those same technique holes have slipped in again. He said getting Fleury in the hands of the right coach could result in a great payoff.

Fleury for Hutton straight across gives the Knights a much-needed $4.2 million cap saving and the Sabres a $3.7 increase in actual dollars out. It also significantly improves our goaltending and gives us a tempting target to expose in the Seattle expansion.

Can we find another move that will improve our goaltending that much for less than $4 million?

Food for thought.

Edited September 23, 2020 by dudacek

[freester]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Vancouver sportsradio had goalie expert Kevin Woodley on talking about how Marc-Andre Fleury's career was resurrected by Mike Bales fixing some sloppy technique that had slipped into his game. He also said Fleury has not lost his athleticism, but those same technique holes have slipped in again. He said getting Fleury in the hands of the right coach could result in a great payoff.

Fleury for Hutton straight across gives the Knights a much-needed $4.2 million cap saving and the Sabres a $3.7 increase in actual dollars out. It also significantly improves our goaltending and gives us a tempting target to expose in the Seattle expansion.

Can we find another move that will improve our goaltending that much for less than $4 million?

Food for thought.

Vegas would have to add an asset or retain some salary. Huttons contract is only one year while MAF is for 2 years. 

[dudacek]

12 hours ago, freester said:

Vegas would have to add an asset or retain some salary. Huttons contract is only one year while MAF is for 2 years. 

It would be nice if we could leverage them into adding an asset (the fact they don't have to retain is what makes it attractive to Vegas), but the fact Fleury is 2 years isn't a bad thing from an expansion perspective. If Seattle doesn't pick him, he could still give us two years of good goaltending.

Edited September 23, 2020 by dudacek

[In The Buff]

Last week Guerin of the Wild said they wouldn't be bringing back Koivu. Wonder what some of you think about him being brought in as our "defensive 3C".

He's older than Staal, 37 years old, but would be a replacement for Larsson, could probably be had for $2-3m per. He's better at faceoffs & at blocking shots than Larsson & could put up 40 points with the right linemates and add more veteran leadership to this team. Adding Koivu wouldn't be my 1st choice, but he'd come relatively cheap & with Staal & Eichel we'd have 3 solid C's for our spine.

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, In The Buff said:

Last week Guerin of the Wild said they wouldn't be bringing back Koivu. Wonder what some of you think about him being brought in as our "defensive 3C".

He's older than Staal, 37 years old, but would be a replacement for Larsson, could probably be had for $2-3m per. He's better at faceoffs & at blocking shots than Larsson & could put up 40 points with the right linemates and add more veteran leadership to this team. Adding Koivu wouldn't be my 1st choice, but he'd come relatively cheap & with Staal & Eichel we'd have 3 solid C's for our spine.

I would kick the tires, but according to Craig Rivet it's not happening.

Most people said it was Minny or retire for Mikko; he's spent his entire career there. Rivet's also pretty tight with his brother Saku.

[In The Buff]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

I would kick the tires, but according to Craig Rivet it's not happening.

Most people said it was Minny or retire for Mikko; he's spent his entire career there. Rivet's also pretty tight with his brother Saku.

Well before we brought in Staal, those 'most people' believed he would retire too & that didn't happen. Not that I don't think its possible. At his age & stage in his career, he may not feel great about the challenges of joining us. We'd probably have to pay him the higher of that $2-3m range & make it a 2 year deal but he does have some connections to Buffalo. Staal an obvious one, but Pommers would put in a good word. We have a few Finns on our team too that would probably make a pitch & we have our secret weapon, Ralph Kruegers TED talks lol.

But if Rivet is that close to know I'd be inclined to believe him. I think we'd prefer to find someone younger, but players like Koivu who could be had on the cheaper end of the spectrum are guys I think we'd be looking to target for our bottom 6. Appreciate your insight

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

It would be nice if we could leverage them into adding an asset (the fact they don't have to retain is what makes it attractive to Vegas), but the fact Fleury is 2 years isn't a bad thing from an expansion perspective. If Vegas doesn't pick him, he could still give us two years of good goaltending.

I would be very Ok with this, but I would need a young player back, especially if they are helping to clear the deck for AP

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, In The Buff said:

Last week Guerin of the Wild said they wouldn't be bringing back Koivu. Wonder what some of you think about him being brought in as our "defensive 3C".

He's older than Staal, 37 years old, but would be a replacement for Larsson, could probably be had for $2-3m per. He's better at faceoffs & at blocking shots than Larsson & could put up 40 points with the right linemates and add more veteran leadership to this team. Adding Koivu wouldn't be my 1st choice, but he'd come relatively cheap & with Staal & Eichel we'd have 3 solid C's for our spine.

I think the Sabres should help Guerin with the Wild’s Quest to bring in Minnesota Players and offer Mittelstadt for Joel Eriksson Ek 

[thewookie1]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

It would be nice if we could leverage them into adding an asset (the fact they don't have to retain is what makes it attractive to Vegas), but the fact Fleury is 2 years isn't a bad thing from an expansion perspective. If Vegas doesn't pick him, he could still give us two years of good goaltending.

Hmm, I got Fleury and NJ's 3rd for Hutton. Would that be adequate?

[thewookie1]

How does this look

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/369354

[Curt]

25 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

How does this look

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/369354

Looks like the RFAs signed fairly cheaply.  I don’t know if you get that return from Vegas or Calgary.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

How does this look

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/369354

You are also likely $5 mill over the internal cap.  We also need to stop trying to solve all our problems with outside talent.  We need to let some of the kids play.  This is the same failed TM approach.  

Our core must be internal talent supplemented by a few trades or FA signings.  That's the only way this works long-term.  We also need to stop trying to convert our centers into wingers.  Cozen's future here is at center.  We don't need to shoe horn him into a RW slot.  If he isn't ready to play NHL center, then he goes back to Jrs. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[thewookie1]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

your also likely $5 mill over the internal cap.

Not necessarily depending on how you structure the contracts.

That team is at about 75/76mil salary

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, thewookie1 said:

Not necessarily depending on how you structure the contracts.

That team is at about 75/76mil salary

If the rumors and reporting are accurate, then the internal cap is somewhere between 70-72 mill in real $.  What you can do is trade for guys with big bonus that have already been paid, thus they have a high cap but low salary.  Not easy to find, but I've seen a list with a couple such guys.

Edited September 23, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN