2020 Off-season gameplan

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Well, hopefully Cozens is the Prince who was Promised, and takes over 2C in 2021-22.

If Strome can be had for a cheapo price in trade and then a bridge contract (he is RFA after this season), I'd be pretty happy to plug him in as 2C for next season, drop him to 3C the following year, and then decide whether he's worth a long-term deal.

It seems fairly likely that Strome will be in more or less the top 3 centers that change teams this offseason.  If the Sabres can get someone better?  By all means, I hope they do so.  But if not, I'd much rather they pick up Strome under the parameters described above than take the JB "hope for the best" approach and waste another year of Eichel's prime.

Sure, just so long as the acquire him at the price of a stopgap, as opposed to the price of a solution.

[Thorner]

Domi and Drouin for Reinhart and Mittelstadt adding either way is a guess 

[thewookie1]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Domi and Drouin for Reinhart and Mittelstadt adding either way is a guess 

That would be bad for Buffalo as we really wouldn't be acquiring a center but rather 2 wingers who have previously played center some.

[Thorner]

9 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

That would be bad for Buffalo as we really wouldn't be acquiring a center but rather 2 wingers who have previously played center some.

In addition, I'd be scratching my head at our lack of right shots.

Domi is arguably a better fit at C than W, though, (including in Domi's opinion) and this article https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canadiens-mailbag-max-domi-belong-centre-wing/sn-amp/ touches on why, and also on why, imo, he could be available. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Thorny

[thewookie1]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

In addition, I'd be scratching my head at our lack of right shots.

Domi is arguably a better fit at C than W, though, (including in Domi's opinion) and this article https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canadiens-mailbag-max-domi-belong-centre-wing/sn-amp/ touches on why, and also on why, imo, he could be available. 

I like Domi, just not enough to trade Reinhart to get him

[Thorner]

Skinner is supposed to be back with Jack according to our rumour breaker, right? Maybe it's cause he'll need him with Reino gone.

Skinner - Eichel - Olofsson

Drouin - Domi - Cozens/UFA/Trade

...does that upgrade our top 6 enough? Does converting a RW Reinhart asset into a (around equal?) C Domi asset, and adding Drouin (who's shown recent signs of life) enough? Does it depend on the potential trade/UFA on line 2?

We still have the RHD stable to consummate that deal, and/or add to the bottom 6. 

 

4 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I like Domi, just not enough to trade Reinhart to get him

I like Reinhart too. I wonder if the Pegula's have any opinions on how much they want to pay him, and when, and whether or not they've been informed of what risk pushing the deal back to next offseason could be inclusive of. 

[3putt]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

Sometimes you just don't like a player.

The best analogy I can think of is what you think of Risto, even discounting his analytics.

Risto looks the part on paper: he's big, he's aggressive, he's a strong skater, he works his tail off on both ends of the ice, he can play the PP and kill penalties, he puts up 40 points regularly, he wants to be a difference maker; he ticks all the boxes for a prototype defenceman. But when push comes to shove, he just can't carry the mail in a matchup role and you are looking to upgrade. (In Risto's case, the issue is IQ)

Strome is big, with silky smooth hands. He sees holes and delivers the puck to them with the right touch, he's got the size and wingspan to protect the puck, he puts up 50 points with ease, he can connect with elite players because he processes the game at their level; he has the tools of a top-six centre. But he can't carry the mail in a matchup role and you will be looking to upgrade. (In Strome's case, the issue is compete)

Play him with Pat Kane and he will put up points, but the line probably loses most of its matchups. Play him with Skinner and Mojo and we probably get caved.

He's a luxury.

I wouldn’t say compete, the desire is there. He is simply a sub par skater with no acceleration and and cannot play at the pace of a matchup center.  His most common linemates are Kane and DeBrincat who push the pace.  Without two excellent skaters on his wings he is not a driver.  I can think nothing worse than a center who is complimentary player. Strome is a product of his situation, not a catalyst in creating it.

[Taro T]

12 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

If you watch Dahlin is physical in his own end when retrieving pucks. I think there is a fiestiness to him. That said, I fully agree you can't teach aggression and Tage isn't going to suddenly start being a physical force... Cozens on the other hand will try and run you over. 

I think missing a 24 team playoff format and going home as a "loser" is good for the Dahlin's of the world. It drives them when they fail. 

Been saying since the WJC & his 1st training camp that he LOVES to play physical in his own end and when he finally gets man strength he's going to be very tough in front of his net.  He had that desire when he was still forced to wear a cage at the WJC.

Big part of the reason why a preferred comparison of ultimate ceiling is Potvin or Robinson.  Both were beasts at both ends of the ice.

[sabresparaavida]

I made a capfriendly team for fun, curious what you guys would think of the team/prices of players/the trade I made. Quite obviously, it is not the trade I was mentioning earlier.

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1823092

Edited August 7, 2020 by sabresparaavida
Forgot the link, oops

[LGR4GM]

12 hours ago, Taro T said:

Been saying since the WJC & his 1st training camp that he LOVES to play physical in his own end and when he finally gets man strength he's going to be very tough in front of his net.  He had that desire when he was still forced to wear a cage at the WJC.

Big part of the reason why a preferred comparison of ultimate ceiling is Potvin or Robinson.  Both were beasts at both ends of the ice.

Fully agree. There's a cold meanness to him that I love in a defender. 

[In The Buff]

1 hour ago, sabresparaavida said:

I made a capfriendly team for fun, curious what you guys would think of the team/prices of players/the trade I made. Quite obviously, it is not the trade I was mentioning earlier.

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1823092

Appreciate your exercise with the trades... it'd be great to get Monahan but there's no way in hell they'd trade him for Casey & a 2nd & Montour. Maybe if Casey was further along in his development, but even with our 8OA idk if it gets it done (though it'd obviously would be more enticing for them where they'd have to think about it). But if Calgary had missed the playoffs this year, then I could see the Flames wanting to make a move like that. He's their 1C & PP1, signed to a decent contract for a couple more seasons. Getting rid of him creates a hole in their lineup where if they made that trade, now they would be looking for a 1C/2C to replace him. Casey obviously isn't that guy & Backlund & Bennett aren't 1C material. Backlund could fill that spot if needed, but their C spine would be neutered. 

I'm no expert however so who knows, i could be totally wrong (wouldn't be the 1st time haha). I just think you're undervaluing Monahan. I also think Montour's value has dropped a bit (even if its just slightly) since when we traded Guhle & a 1st for him. And Casey's value is well, in the eye of the beholder. And that 2nd rd pick has a 25% chance at making the NHL, years down the road. So really the trade is a 1C for Montour & a couple prospects. Would u make that trade if you had Monahan?

Maybe if their GM was Jbotts they would do it.

I also would hope we made some move at Goalie for next year as well,  unless you're going with: Hutton can see clearly again & betting on him to turn things around.

[Brawndo]

 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

24 minutes ago, In The Buff said:

 

I also would hope we made some move at Goalie for next year as well,  unless you're going with: Hutton can see clearly again & betting on him to turn things around.

https://youtu.be/FscIgtDJFXg

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

I made a capfriendly team for fun, curious what you guys would think of the team/prices of players/the trade I made. Quite obviously, it is not the trade I was mentioning earlier.

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1823092

Excellent cap projection. It's apparent that a lot of thought went into it. However, I don't see Monahan being dealt. Why would Calgary move on from him and then have to try to replace him? I have the same view on Cirelli and Tampa. They'll get something worked out because it is in each side's interest to do so. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

DROUIN!!

(sighting)

?

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

I made a capfriendly team for fun, curious what you guys would think of the team/prices of players/the trade I made. Quite obviously, it is not the trade I was mentioning earlier.

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/1823092

I don't think that trade gets you Monahan. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Excellent cap projection. It's apparent that a lot of thought went into it. However, I don't see Monahan being dealt. Why would Calgary move on from him and then have to try to replace him? I have the same view on Cirelli and Tampa. They'll get something worked out because it is in each side's interest to do so. 

There are always reasons for player movement that have nothing to do with what we see on our TV screens.

One possible reason for Calgary to move is their purported mutual interest in Taylor Hall.

As for Tampa, maybe their NTCs won’t waive, and Cirelli won’t sign for a discount. Why would it be in either of those party’s interests to do so?

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

There are always reasons for player movement that have nothing to do with what we see on our TV screens.

One possible reason for Calgary to move is their purported mutual interest in Taylor Hall.

As for Tampa, maybe their NTCs won’t waive, and Cirelli won’t sign for a discount. Why would it be in either of those party’s interests to do so?

The deal that was proposed for Monahan by the poster doesn't come close to matching his value to Calgary. (My opinion also stated by others.) Monahan is a relatively young player who is locked up for a few more years and has a 6m plus contract that is reasonable relative to his production. Unless there is a higher yield return that would include multiple players I don't see a trade for him materializing.  

I agree with you that Cirelli won't sign for a discount unless he is willing to sign a bridge deal. But for us to make an offer for Cirelli the Sabres would need to be assured that Cirelli would be willing to agree to a long term deal before a deal would be made by us. I'm not sure that Cirelli would be agreeable to that. I'm aware that Tampa is in a tough position because of the cap but this organization is one of the best run organizations in the league. Odds are that they will find a way. (My opinion.)The Bolts were able to keep Stamkos when he was on the market and I see the Cirelli scenario playing out the same. 

[Rasmus_]

On 8/6/2020 at 4:04 PM, Thorny said:

Domi and Drouin for Reinhart and Mittelstadt adding either way is a guess 

 

Gross.  Drouin has been abysmal for the past three years.  I wouldn't take him for anything other than Okposo.  Reinhart is better than him. Domi is also VASTLY overrated.  Yes he's offensively gifted, but he's a terrible away from puck player with no defensive upside.  He'd fit this team perfectly from that aspect.  I'm not interested in taking Montreal's trash. 

Edited August 8, 2020 by TheCerebral1

[dudacek]

44 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The deal that was proposed for Monahan by the poster doesn't come close to matching his value to Calgary. (My opinion also stated by others.) Monahan is a relatively young player who is locked up for a few more years and has a 6m plus contract that is reasonable relative to his production. Unless there is a higher yield return that would include multiple players I don't see a trade for him materializing.  

I agree with you that Cirelli won't sign for a discount unless he is willing to sign a bridge deal. But for us to make an offer for Cirelli the Sabres would need to be assured that Cirelli would be willing to agree to a long term deal before a deal would be made by us. I'm not sure that Cirelli would be agreeable to that. I'm aware that Tampa is in a tough position because of the cap but this organization is one of the best run organizations in the league. Odds are that they will find a way. (My opinion.)The Bolts were able to keep Stamkos when he was on the market and I see the Cirelli scenario playing out the same. 

Reasonable take.

I would suggest that Mittelstadt and Montour are better value than Thompson and a late 1st, and that O'Reilly is of higher value than Monahan. Now that clearly wasn't a smart trade, but my point is sometimes teams decide to move on and take the best offer available.

In my view, Tampa has run out of cards. They might not lose Cirelli, but keeping him is going to cost them some other good players for very little return.

Edited August 8, 2020 by dudacek

[JohnC]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Reasonable take.

I would suggest that Mittelstadt and Montour are better value than Thompson and a late 1st, and that O'Reilly is of higher value than Monahan. Now that clearly wasn't a smart trade, but my point is sometimes teams decide to move on and take the best offer available.

In my view, Tampa has run out of cards. They might not lose Cirelli, but keeping him is going to cost them some other good players for very little return.

The ROR deal was a boondoggle for us. I'm sure there were some behind the curtain issues going on that influenced this deal but it has had a lingering damaging affect on this team. A good topic of discussion is: if we had kept him (ROR) how would it impact our current roster? And by securing that 2C position with him how much more flexibility would this organization have in seeking to address other needs in the offseason? 

With respect to Tampa and Cirelli my belief still is that the two sides will find a way to come to a deal. We shall see. If he does get dealt I don't see him coming to Buffalo. (My opinion.)

 

[Andrew Amerk]

1 hour ago, TheCerebral1 said:

 

Gross.  Drouin has been abysmal for the past three years.  I wouldn't take him for anything other than Okposo.  Reinhart is better than him. Domi is also VASTLY overrated.  Yes he's offensively gifted, but he's a terrible away from puck player with no defensive upside.  He'd fit this team perfectly from that aspect.  I'm not interested in taking Montreal's trash. 

Montreal’s trash just qualified for the playoffs. 
 

The Sabres didn’t even qualify for the qualifiers. 

[Rasmus_]

27 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Montreal’s trash just qualified for the playoffs. 
 

The Sabres didn’t even qualify for the qualifiers. 

That's fine, but adding more players that have major holes in their games, with absorbent salaries is not the way to go.  I'm all for making huge changes, but Domi / Drouin are not the changes worth making.  Domi was less than stellar after his breakout first season, and really I just don't get why so many people are interested in him.  Going after Hertl on the other hand, who is a stellar two way player, draws in the face off circle well, has been to the playoffs multiple times, and can score.  IS WORTH GOING AFTER.  Differentiating, the right quality over quantity is the problem with this ***** storm of a team. 

Edited August 8, 2020 by TheCerebral1

[Andrew Amerk]

4 minutes ago, TheCerebral1 said:

That's fine, but adding more players that have major holes in their games, with absorbent salaries is not the way to go.  I'm all for making huge changes, but Domi / Drouin are not the changes worth making.  Domi was less than stellar after his breakout first season, and really I just don't get why so many people are interested in him.  Going after Hertl on the other hand, who is a stellar two way player, draws in the face off circle well, has been to the playoffs multiple times, and can score.  IS WORTH GOING AFTER.  Differentiating, the right quality over quantity is the problem with this ***** storm of a team. 

I’m not advocating for trying to obtain Domi and Drouin, just pointing out that MTL seems to have a better formula than the Sabres at present. 

[Rasmus_]

1 minute ago, Andrew Amerk said:

I’m not advocating for trying to obtain Domi and Drouin, just pointing out that MTL seems to have a better formula than the Sabres at present. 

They have somewhat stable goal tending, quality leadership (Weber), and the right mix of veteran to youth.