2020 Off-season gameplan

[Thorner]

19 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

Oh, and also, source: "I just have a good feeling about Adams"

So do you think the source's info is now potentially filtered through personal optimism? 

16 hours ago, Curt said:

I disagree with this narrative for Botterill.  He did not build a team with no diversity of skills.  He just built a team with a dearth of skills.  They just weren’t very good.

So much this. Botterill was on another level of bad and we should keep him there. 

[Thorner]

13 hours ago, freester said:

Unfortunately I think the team is Toronto with Risto or Montour being traded for Kerfoot and Kapanen. Kerfoot is not really a 2C although he would be on the the Sabres. Toronto needs to shed salary and is desperate for RD. 

I'm on record as interested in this deal, I like the 2 players and it's one of the proposals where we'd give up the least. It's not my favourite scenario but it would represent our best off-season in years with a couple other tweaks. 

11 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I wouldn't give more than a 3rd for either player by themselves

I'd give a 2nd for Strome and call it a steal. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

47 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

It's both.  If you don't think having "old school nastiness" in some of your players is a benefit, then we will agree to disagree.

Agree...as nasty as Risto can be at times, I think his effectiveness is lost to an extent by not following through with some knuckles once in awhile.

[In The Buff]

7 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I'd give a 2nd for Strome and call it a steal. 

I would too. Especially when you factor in our our draft history & what we've used our 2nd rd picks on. Jury is still out on our 2nd rd choices under Jbott, but nothing really blows me away with them. Sure we all hope UPL will be the real deal or that Samuelsson's career is at least as good as his fathers. But in 10 years prior really only Jake McCabe has done anything with us. Sure we've used others in trades but i'll take Strome over Asplund or Marcus Davidsson or the many other players we got in the 2nd.

Sabres draft history in case anyone wants a good cry: https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005054.html

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

31 minutes ago, In The Buff said:

I would too. Especially when you factor in our our draft history & what we've used our 2nd rd picks on. Jury is still out on our 2nd rd choices under Jbott, but nothing really blows me away with them. Sure we all hope UPL will be the real deal or that Samuelsson's career is at least as good as his fathers. But in 10 years prior really only Jake McCabe has done anything with us. Sure we've used others in trades but i'll take Strome over Asplund or Marcus Davidsson or the many other players we got in the 2nd.

Sabres draft history in case anyone wants a good cry: https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005054.html

Had a good cry and some laffs.

I used to talk about Morris Titanic and would sometimes refer to his as Mercury Morris by mistake, lol.

[Weave]

55 minutes ago, Thorny said:

 

I'd give a 2nd for Strome and call it a steal. 

A second round pick has a historical 25% chance of playing 100+ NHL games.  If someone is calling a second round pick for a proven, youngish NHL player a steep price, they are over valuing 2nd round picks. It would be a steal.

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, Weave said:

A second round pick has a historical 25% chance of playing 100+ NHL games.  If someone is calling a second round pick for a proven, youngish NHL player a steep price, they are over valuing 2nd round picks. It would be a steal.

I agree. I think dudacek had it right when he put his value at a mid first. Was just pointing out I'd give more than Flagg and I'd stlll consider it a bargain. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Thorny

[Radar]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

It's both.  If you don't think having "old school nastiness" in some of your players is a benefit, then we will agree to disagree.

I think we agree, actually. Old school is back in the day of having enforcers but enforcers who brought nothing else to the game. It finally led to stated fights. On the other hand you have to have players who play hockey at the NHL level and be able to protect your star players. Players who don't cough up the puck to escape taking a hit. Goal scorers who take a hit to s ore a goal ect. Are we lacking that? Yes, but it's not topping the list of what we're lacking. Sorry taking so long.

 

 

 

[Randall Flagg]

14 minutes ago, Weave said:

A second round pick has a historical 25% chance of playing 100+ NHL games.  If someone is calling a second round pick for a mediocre NHL player who won't make the team any better compared to a plethora of other available options, and thus isn't worth expending effort to acquire, a steep price, they are right that we should look elsewhere 

I'd rather have our third available for an offersheet than what Vesey gave us last year

 

Strome would likely be your least favorite player we've had in a while 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Randall Flagg

[WildCard]

11 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I'd rather have our third available for an offersheet than what Vesey gave us last year

Strome would likely be your least favorite player we've had in a while 

I want nothing to do with Strome

[LabattBlue]

A good placeholder 2C, a 2nd line/3rd line winger, and a goaltending upgrade is a must for 20-21.  Fail to accomplish this, and the Sabres are looking at another bottom 10 finish...the silver lining...Adams is so well liked by Kym that his job is safe no matter what crap he throws out on the ice.

Edited August 6, 2020 by LabattBlue

[Weave]

32 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I'd rather have our third available for an offersheet than what Vesey gave us last year

 

Strome would likely be your least favorite player we've had in a while 

If there was any hope for an offersheet I'd agree.  But we all know that isn't happening.  Given that, I'll take Vesey over a AAAA player.

Strome would have to fall below a whole hos tfo sub NHL players to reach least favorite status.

None of these comments are to be construed as me wanting the Sabres to pursue Strome.  Frankly, I've watched so little of the league in the last 7 years that I have no idea if he is someone we should be pursuing to improve teh team.  My comments were solely in regards to overvaluing our scratch off tickets.

[dudacek]

Strome is a pillowy-soft Luke Adam with John Tucker's hands and Alex Nylander's world view.

[Drag0nDan]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

A good placeholder 2C, a 2nd line/3rd line winger, and a goaltending upgrade is a must for 20-21.  Fail to accomplish this, and the Sabres are looking at another bottom 10 finish...the silver lining...Adams is so well liked by Kym that his job is safe no matter what crap he throws out on the ice.

Hes a first year GM... i think his jobs safe.  

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

A good placeholder 2C, a 2nd line/3rd line winger, and a goaltending upgrade is a must for 20-21.  Fail to accomplish this, and the Sabres are looking at another bottom 10 finish...the silver lining...Adams is so well liked by Kym that his job is safe no matter what crap he throws out on the ice.

I’m more worried about Eichel wanting out at that point 

[Randall Flagg]

58 minutes ago, Weave said:

If there was any hope for an offersheet I'd agree.  But we all know that isn't happening.  Given that, I'll take Vesey over a AAAA player.

Strome would have to fall below a whole hos tfo sub NHL players to reach least favorite status.

None of these comments are to be construed as me wanting the Sabres to pursue Strome.  Frankly, I've watched so little of the league in the last 7 years that I have no idea if he is someone we should be pursuing to improve teh team.  My comments were solely in regards to overvaluing our scratch off tickets.

Hes pretty bad and would lead to another season like 18-19 because we'd operate under the assumption that we've fixed our biggest problem when that's not true

Keep picks to help in genuinely good trades later in the summer (like we did skinner) rather than pretending you did something good earlier 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Randall Flagg

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I'd rather have our third available for an offersheet than what Vesey gave us last year

 

Strome would likely be your least favorite player we've had in a while 

Is the implication that Strome = Jimmy? 

[Thorner]

He must be an absolute gong show defensively and entirely a product of his linemstes offensively if you wouldn't pay a third round pick for a player who's outproduced Reinhart per game the last two seasons combined. 

His per game numbers would rank above anyone on our team sans Eichel. By all means make more impactful moves but a 2nd/3rd for a 23-year old Strome is one you make if it's available (it wouldn't be).

Edited August 6, 2020 by Thorny

[dudacek]

28 minutes ago, Thorny said:

He must be an absolute gong show defensively and entirely a product of his linemstes offensively if you wouldn't pay a third round pick for a player who's outproduced Reinhart per game the last two seasons combined. 

Sometimes you just don't like a player.

The best analogy I can think of is what you think of Risto, even discounting his analytics.

Risto looks the part on paper: he's big, he's aggressive, he's a strong skater, he works his tail off on both ends of the ice, he can play the PP and kill penalties, he puts up 40 points regularly, he wants to be a difference maker; he ticks all the boxes for a prototype defenceman. But when push comes to shove, he just can't carry the mail in a matchup role and you are looking to upgrade. (In Risto's case, the issue is IQ)

Strome is big, with silky smooth hands. He sees holes and delivers the puck to them with the right touch, he's got the size and wingspan to protect the puck, he puts up 50 points with ease, he can connect with elite players because he processes the game at their level; he has the tools of a top-six centre. But he can't carry the mail in a matchup role and you will be looking to upgrade. (In Strome's case, the issue is compete)

Play him with Pat Kane and he will put up points, but the line probably loses most of its matchups. Play him with Skinner and Mojo and we probably get caved.

He's a luxury.

Edited August 6, 2020 by dudacek

[Thorner]

Not really - I don't like Risto all that much and yet I'm not low-balling his value close to that extent. I'm not giving him away for a pick. 

My reading was a rough equation of Vesey to Strome and that would be like using Risto and Hunwick or something. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Thorny

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Not really - I don't like Risto all that much and yet I'm not low-balling his value close to that extent. I'm not giving him away for a pick. 

But if he was on another team, would you be trading a 2nd to solve a problem on your top four?

Edited August 6, 2020 by dudacek

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

But if he was on another team, would you be trading a 2nd to solve a problem on your top four?

Hell yes 

I've maintained that Risto is a second pair D man. It's doubt that we'll EVER play him in that role that feeds the angst. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Thorny

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Hell yes 

Fair enough. I misjudged your valuation of him.

I'd give up a 2nd for Strome before going into the season without a 2C, because I think he's an upgrade, but I don't think he's the solution.

Edited August 6, 2020 by dudacek

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Fair enough. I misjudged your valuation of him.

Picks are overvalued anyways and we need current players. My issue with the way Botterill ran through picks is moreso the players he targeted..

A 3rd for Jimmy was and always will be balls. Especially within the context of the LACK of other moves made. 

[nfreeman]

34 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Fair enough. I misjudged your valuation of him.

I'd give up a 2nd for Strome before going into the season without a 2C, because I think he's an upgrade, but I don't think he's the solution.

Well, hopefully Cozens is the Prince who was Promised, and takes over 2C in 2021-22.

If Strome can be had for a cheapo price in trade and then a bridge contract (he is RFA after this season), I'd be pretty happy to plug him in as 2C for next season, drop him to 3C the following year, and then decide whether he's worth a long-term deal.

It seems fairly likely that Strome will be in more or less the top 3 centers that change teams this offseason.  If the Sabres can get someone better?  By all means, I hope they do so.  But if not, I'd much rather they pick up Strome under the parameters described above than take the JB "hope for the best" approach and waste another year of Eichel's prime.