2020 Off-season gameplan

[dudacek]

36 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

And you factor in a Krakendraft next season --- Hedman, McDonagh both need to be protected. TB should be looking to find teams willing to trade for McD, or Serg, or Cernak (ideally for them McDonagh), because they have to protect so many forwards. These are good problems to have. This is where we want to be.

Edit: We want to be there... with loads of talent to protect that can be turned into future assets and the next sustaining wave of awesomeness. Not necessarily with everyone on a NTC,NMC.

I am probably one of the few people on here willing to take on McDonagh's contract, primarily because I believe he addresses our immediate need for a defence-first LHD who can kill penalties. I am OK with protecting McD, Dahlin and whichever other guy most warrants it next summer because I am comfortable with our depth compensating for the loss of one or two of Risto, Montour, Joki, Miller, McCabe.

But it would cost Tampa. I'm talking Cirelli for Bryson and a 2nd.

33 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What if team A (Buffalo) believes that Mitts is a borderline 1A then do they get rid of him? On the contrary, I not only don't believe that the Sabres have concluded that he is a bust but they believe that there is still a salvageable upside that is ready to be tapped. That is not to say that in a good deal they wouldn't be reluctant to include him in a deal that fortifies the second line. For me the one untouchable young player on our roster is Cozens with Yoki not far behind in that category. 

One of the more intriguing plotlines with Adams is what he really thinks of some of Botterill's guys — like Casey, Tage, Montour, Miller, Skinner (although we're stuck there), Hutton, Cozens, Johnson, Samuelsson, Luukkonnen...

[thewookie1]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I am probably one of the few people on here willing to take on McDonagh's contract, primarily because I believe he addresses our immediate need for a defence-first LHD who can kill penalties. I am OK with protecting McD, Dahlin and whichever other guy most warrants it next summer because I am comfortable with our depth compensating for the loss of one or two of Risto, Montour, Joki, Miller, McCabe.

But it would cost Tampa. I'm talking Cirelli for Bryson and a 2nd.

One of the more intriguing plotlines with Adams is what he really thinks of some of Botterill's guys — like Casey, Tage, Montour, Miller, Skinner (although we're stuck there), Hutton, Cozens, Johnson, Samuelsson, Luukkonnen...

I wouldn’t take McDs contract if they gave me their 1st next year. If he were under contract for 3 years I’d say go for it but he’s literally signed until he 38/39 years old

 

He doesn’t have to be protected he has a M-NTC not a NMC though just so you guys know.

 

He had better adore Cozens because he’s going to be good

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

 

One of the more intriguing plotlines with Adams is what he really thinks of some of Botterill's guys — like Casey, Tage, Montour, Miller, Skinner (although we're stuck there), Hutton, Cozens, Johnson, Samuelsson, Luukkonnen...

My belief is that Adams/Krueger's evaluations on Botterill's guys are not radically different. The issue for the new regime and the old regime if it were still in place entering this offseason is how best to better balance the roster? Each respective regime can value a player in the system similarly and still be willing to trade them in order to have a more complete roster. The biggest issue this offseason is whether this new regime will be more aggressive and creative in managing their assets in prospective deals. My sense of Botterill is that he is more of a cautious and incremental type of person while maybe this organization is at this time in need of a bolder approach in reworking the roster.   

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

My belief is that Adams/Krueger's evaluations on Botterill's guys are not radically different. The issue for the new regime and the old regime if it were still in place entering this offseason is how best to better balance the roster? Each respective regime can value a player in the system similarly and still be willing to trade them in order to have a more complete roster. The biggest issue this offseason is whether this new regime will be more aggressive and creative in managing their assets in prospective deals. My sense of Botterill is that he is more of a cautious and incremental type of person while maybe this organization is at this time in need of a bolder approach in reworking the roster.   

Why? That seems counterintuitive after Adams flushed 2/3rds of Botterill's evaluators.

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Why? That seems counterintuitive after Adams flushed 2/3rds of Botterill's evaluators.

The methodology changed in how the operation is going to be run. The Pegulas came to the conclusion that the operation could be run more cheaply by using technology. That doesn't necessarily mean that the evaluations were going to be different. 

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The methodology changed in how the operation is going to be run. The Pegulas came to the conclusion that the operation could be run more cheaply by using technology. That doesn't necessarily mean that the evaluations were going to be different. 

God, I hope you are wrong about this.

[sabresparaavida]

A handful of random things I picked up from talking with my source:

Kevyn Adams is very analytically based, looks at the numbers more than Tim Murray's eye test.

There is a reasonable chance of Girgs and/or Larsson being back

KA is more focused on building a team that works together we'll than Jbotts was. Jbotts was focused more on bringing in the best pieces he could, instead of trying to fit pieces together. (Sited having a surplus of D, but no D chemistry)

KA comes across as smarter than Jbotts

There is a decent chance we see Skinner with Jack this year. Not 100% going to happen, but there is a good chance it will.

[Gabrielor]

4 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

A handful of random things I picked up from talking with my source:

Kevyn Adams is very analytically based, looks at the numbers more than Tim Murray's eye test.

There is a reasonable chance of Girgs and/or Larsson being back

KA is more focused on building a team that works together we'll than Jbotts was. Jbotts was focused more on bringing in the best pieces he could, instead of trying to fit pieces together. (Sited having a surplus of D, but no D chemistry)

KA comes across as smarter than Jbotts

There is a decent chance we see Skinner with Jack this year. Not 100% going to happen, but there is a good chance it will.

Appreciate the re-inspiration this is giving me, and the effort by yourself.

I just want this team to be good.

 

Log line back + a 2C at a reasonable price = ?

Edited August 5, 2020 by Gabrielor

[sabresparaavida]

Oh, and also, source: "I just have a good feeling about Adams"

[Randall Flagg]

16 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

Oh, and also, source: "I just have a good feeling about Adams"

Me too, source.

[JohnC]

9 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

A handful of random things I picked up from talking with my source:

Kevyn Adams is very analytically based, looks at the numbers more than Tim Murray's eye test.

There is a reasonable chance of Girgs and/or Larsson being back

KA is more focused on building a team that works together we'll than Jbotts was. Jbotts was focused more on bringing in the best pieces he could, instead of trying to fit pieces together. (Sited having a surplus of D, but no D chemistry)

KA comes across as smarter than Jbotts

There is a decent chance we see Skinner with Jack this year. Not 100% going to happen, but there is a good chance it will.

Skinner on a Jack line is a 35 goal scorer. I really like Reinhart/Jack/Skinner playing on the first line. It is a 1A line that ranks in the top tier in the league. If you want to maximize the return on investment with Skinner he should be playing with Jack. 

You make a very keen observation about Botts who seemed more bent on accumulating talent than fitting in pieces. As you point out the excess in defensemen are assets that can be used to deal in order to better balance out the roster. Stating the obvious getting that 2C is an absolute necessity. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

15 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Skinner on a Jack line is a 35 goal scorer. I really like Reinhart/Jack/Skinner playing on the first line. It is a 1A line that ranks in the top tier in the league. If you want to maximize the return on investment with Skinner he should be playing with Jack. 

You make a very keen observation about Botts who seemed more bent on accumulating talent than fitting in pieces. As you point out the excess in defensemen are assets that can be used to deal in order to better balance out the roster. Stating the obvious getting that 2C is an absolute necessity. 

The bolded is just not true....he went through a lot of trouble to find a guy who could take left side faceoffs.

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

The methodology changed in how the operation is going to be run. The Pegulas came to the conclusion that the operation could be run more cheaply by using technology. That doesn't necessarily mean that the evaluations were going to be different. 

This ^^^ bothered me enough to dig.

"If you think about the amateur draft, we have more access to video and higher-quality video than we’ve ever had. We have access to data, to things that will tell us about player tendencies, than we’ve ever had and we do have time now to really implement a data-driven player evaluation process, specifically over the last month I’ve really enjoyed working with Jeremiah and our scouting staff. They’ve been working hard in revisiting the 2020 draft and trying to incorporate more information, to be open-minded when it comes to evaluating players and I think also to develop a scout calendar and a process that can be a hybrid of both the data and the experts’ opinions, the scouts." —Jason Nightengale

"I would say the vast majority of information we take in – we have multiple data sources the league has used for a long time. We create our own proprietary statistics. We purchase third-party statistics. The majority of that data from a statistical standpoint is extremely noisy. I think it’s natural to have a vetting-out process and I think that’s one thing over the last seven years that’s happened. To me, it’s imperative on the analyst to earn trust with the hockey staff and to be able to put forward useful information that is predictive of success and repeatable." —Jason Nightengale

“I asked (Kevyn Adams why I was fired) and I think his words were, ‘clean slate,’ ” — ChrisTaylor

"As we build our scouting department, [we want to] sync up our scouting and analytics to become seamless and work together. There's a process that we want to go through in our scouting - both from the amateur and the professional side - of how we measure players, where we see value, what certain traits are we measuring, and at what level. That, from the analytics and the scouting, will be combined into how we ultimately move forward." —Kevyn Adams

"Obviously, you want hockey IQ, and the game is moving so fast right now, and to be able to process the game and understand it at a high level is extremely important. You need competitive, hard-to-play-against, resilient hockey players, and you need players that can skate. This league is fast right now, and you have to have players that can make plays and have puck skills — not just the obvious ones. It’s the little plays, the small-area plays, the plays that maybe the average fan may not even notice because it’s just through a guy’s stick or feet that it happens so quick. But that’s how the game is played now in tight areas. Those are just some ways of identifying how we will find Buffalo Sabres hockey players. —Adams

"When we look at the scouting and our player development and the analytics, like, how do we put all of those together to where they can work seamlessly together?" —Adams, in response to the question of how he decided who to keep and who to let go.

There's enough there for me to conclude that this was not just about cutting staff, it was about implementing a new method of player evaluation. There is no point in revisiting the 2020 draft if its just repeating the same process; there is no point in having open minds and striving to work seamlessly if previously there were no closed minds, or no seams showing.

 

40 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

Oh, and also, source: "I just have a good feeling about Adams"

He comes across a lot better in his personal interactions than Botterill ever did,

Hopefully there is more to it than that.

Edited August 5, 2020 by dudacek

[Broken Ankles]

47 minutes ago, dudacek said:

“I asked (Kevyn Adams why I was fired) and I think his words were, ‘clean slate,’ ” — ChrisTaylor

 

If this philosophy (which I subscribe to) is truly the reason Taylor was fired, then Larsson and Grirgs will not be back.  It's contradictory to any reason for bringing back either player.   I liked the play of our 'GLO' line, but I think there is value in fresh starts.  New dynamics can evolve inside the locker room.  

[thewookie1]

Tim Murray understood how to build player chemistry but had an almost religious adherence to specific players and no ability to figure how the personalities would work outside the rink. 

Botterill seemed to think that skill alone would make the team better. The problem was he got far too many players of a very similar skill set and without any diversity of skill types the team would excel early in the year in open hockey but would collapse upon teams locking down for the playoff runs. He also had no ability to understand his top player’s value.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

Tim Murray understood how to build player chemistry but had an almost religious adherence to specific players and no ability to figure how the personalities would work outside the rink. 

Botterill seemed to think that skill alone would make the team better. The problem was he got far too many players of a very similar skill set and without any diversity of skill types the team would excel early in the year in open hockey but would collapse upon teams locking down for the playoff runs. He also had no ability to understand his top player’s value.

I disagree with this narrative for Botterill.  He did not build a team with no diversity of skills.  He just built a team with a dearth of skills.  They just weren’t very good.

[Gabrielor]

3 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

Oh, and also, source: "I just have a good feeling about Adams"

If you do happen upon your source again in the near future, ask about Krueger unchaining Dahlin and finding him an actual support partner.

There’s obviously a long long list of to-do’s, but ensuring Dahlin’s development into a superstar should be right up there with adding multiple veteran centers.

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Gabrielor

[sweetlou]

On 8/4/2020 at 11:06 AM, sabresparaavida said:

According to my source, the sabres are in discussions that would bring in a second line center, as well as a top 6 winter from a team that is currently playing. The center is a player the board has talked about before. The sabres main blocks are tentatively agreed upon, but they may have to add significantly depending on playoff performance.

To me no one on the Sabres except Jack and Dahlin are protected from any such trade...that being said my opinion on who can be brought in...

Tampa- Cirelli and any of Killorn, Johnson Gourde or Palat (don't really seeing this happening because would Tampa trade Cirelli in division 

Calgary- Monahan or Linholm as 2c, Gaudreau as top six (Reinhart and Montour definitely going the other way and maybe #8)

Vancouver- Boeser would be top six but I don't think they would be giving up a Miller, Petterson, or Horvat (not likely to be Vancouver)

Columbus- Wennberg 2C??, Josh Anderson ( would be kind of a stretch with Wennberg but would love Anderson)

Chicago- Strome and Saad (this to me is likely since they don't have cap space for Strome and two goalies. May only cost us Mitts and #8)

Nashville- 2c could either be Johansen, Turris, or Bonino. Top six forward is who??

Vegas-  Stastny and Tuch...this to me makes the most sense. Jack gets a buddy and local Roch boy in Tuch to play on his right side. Stastny fills in one year as 2C and lets Cozens play on third line.  Return would not be that much maybe Montour and Thompson!!

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

12 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

I can't speak for all sabres fans, but I would be extremely excited to get these players.

Maybe you didn't see this post...lol

18 minutes ago, sweetlou said:

To me no one on the Sabres except Jack and Dahlin are protected from any such trade...that being said my opinion on who can be brought in...

Tampa- Cirelli and any of Killorn, Johnson Gourde or Palat (don't really seeing this happening because would Tampa trade Cirelli in division 

Calgary- Monahan or Linholm as 2c, Gaudreau as top six (Reinhart and Montour definitely going the other way and maybe #8)

Vancouver- Boeser would be top six but I don't think they would be giving up a Miller, Petterson, or Horvat (not likely to be Vancouver)

Columbus- Wennberg 2C??, Josh Anderson ( would be kind of a stretch with Wennberg but would love Anderson)

Chicago- Strome and Saad (this to me is likely since they don't have cap space for Strome and two goalies. May only cost us Mitts and #8)

Nashville- 2c could either be Johansen, Turris, or Bonino. Top six forward is who??

Vegas-  Stastny and Tuch...this to me makes the most sense. Jack gets a buddy and local Roch boy in Tuch to play on his right side. Stastny fills in one year as 2C and lets Cozens play on third line.  Return would not be that much maybe Montour and Thompson!!

After your first two, nothing really extremely exciting.

[Gabrielor]

3 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Maybe you didn't see this post...lol

After your first two, nothing really extremely exciting.

Yeah, it's probably my fault for asking that question, but it's all open to intrepretation, and so doesn't tell us much.

I'd imagine most people would be extremely excited if it's Monahan or Cirelli, but there's also folks who'd be extremely excited for a defensive center like Tierney or Copp.

 

 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 minute ago, Gabrielor said:

Yeah, it's probably my fault for asking that question, but it's all open to intrepretation, and so doesn't tell us much.

I'd imagine most people would be extremely excited if it's Monahan or Cirelli, but there's also folks who'd be extremely excited for a defensive center like Tierney or Copp.

 

 

I just think that it might be bigger than that. As an idea of what you're suggesting think along the lines of Couturier and Voracek.

Just thinking out loud, lol.

Or, how about Barkov and Connolly?

As you can see ... I am not "woke" yet.

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, sweetlou said:

To me no one on the Sabres except Jack and Dahlin are protected from any such trade...that being said my opinion on who can be brought in...

Tampa- Cirelli and any of Killorn, Johnson Gourde or Palat (don't really seeing this happening because would Tampa trade Cirelli in division 

Calgary- Monahan or Linholm as 2c, Gaudreau as top six (Reinhart and Montour definitely going the other way and maybe #8)

Vancouver- Boeser would be top six but I don't think they would be giving up a Miller, Petterson, or Horvat (not likely to be Vancouver)

Columbus- Wennberg 2C??, Josh Anderson ( would be kind of a stretch with Wennberg but would love Anderson)

Chicago- Strome and Saad (this to me is likely since they don't have cap space for Strome and two goalies. May only cost us Mitts and #8)

Nashville- 2c could either be Johansen, Turris, or Bonino. Top six forward is who??

Vegas-  Stastny and Tuch...this to me makes the most sense. Jack gets a buddy and local Roch boy in Tuch to play on his right side. Stastny fills in one year as 2C and lets Cozens play on third line.  Return would not be that much maybe Montour and Thompson!!

That’s a huge overpay by the Sabres for Strome and Saad

[dudacek]

10 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

That’s a huge overpay by the Sabres for Strome and Saad

Absolutely. I would not give up #8 on its own for that package.

IMO Strome is worth about a pick in the 20s (I personally wouldn’t pay it, but it’s a fair price) and Saad In the 50s.

[freester]

2 hours ago, sweetlou said:

To me no one on the Sabres except Jack and Dahlin are protected from any such trade...that being said my opinion on who can be brought in...

Tampa- Cirelli and any of Killorn, Johnson Gourde or Palat (don't really seeing this happening because would Tampa trade Cirelli in division 

Calgary- Monahan or Linholm as 2c, Gaudreau as top six (Reinhart and Montour definitely going the other way and maybe #8)

Vancouver- Boeser would be top six but I don't think they would be giving up a Miller, Petterson, or Horvat (not likely to be Vancouver)

Columbus- Wennberg 2C??, Josh Anderson ( would be kind of a stretch with Wennberg but would love Anderson)

Chicago- Strome and Saad (this to me is likely since they don't have cap space for Strome and two goalies. May only cost us Mitts and #8)

Nashville- 2c could either be Johansen, Turris, or Bonino. Top six forward is who??

Vegas-  Stastny and Tuch...this to me makes the most sense. Jack gets a buddy and local Roch boy in Tuch to play on his right side. Stastny fills in one year as 2C and lets Cozens play on third line.  Return would not be that much maybe Montour and Thompson!!

Unfortunately I think the team is Toronto with Risto or Montour being traded for Kerfoot and Kapanen. Kerfoot is not really a 2C although he would be on the the Sabres. Toronto needs to shed salary and is desperate for RD. 

[Andrew Amerk]

2 hours ago, sweetlou said:

 

Vegas-  Stastny and Tuch...this to me makes the most sense. Jack gets a buddy and local Roch boy in Tuch to play on his right side. Stastny fills in one year as 2C and lets Cozens play on third line.  Return would not be that much maybe Montour and Thompson!!

Tuch is from Syracuse, not Rochester.