2020 Off-season gameplan

[LabattBlue]

Kevyn tells Kym about his plans...she tells the Pegula girls...they blab about it to anyone who will listen. ?

[nfreeman]

13 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Sure, but why? There’s no incentive to make a move now.

Why wouldn’t each side hold off a bit to see what else shakes lose?

This is an interesting question, to be sure.  But it's certainly possible that the other side might be willing to pull the trigger now if the Sabres were offering up, say, #8 and some combination of Joker, Mittlestadt, Borgen, Samuelsson and/or Johnson, on the theory that if they don't act now, the Sabres might find a better deal elsewhere -- and the Sabres might feel the same way.

If it's, say, Calgary, and they lose to Winnipeg and decide to blow things up and trade Monahan -- I'd kinda like KA to jump on that before Calgary finds a deal they like better elsewhere.

Of course, it all depends on the specifics.

[WildCard]

Outside of the obvious fact that we need a 2C, the rumored urgency of the new regime to correct that hole this offseason does make sense. IIRC, Botterill told the Pegulas his plan was to just ride out his talent coming through the pipeline, and that was part of the reason he was fired. If that was the case, then pursuing a 2C hard this extended offseason makes sense 

[nfreeman]

Couple of other thoughts:

- If it is Calgary and Monahan, Reino makes sense as the biggest piece going the other way.  He's a good player with good numbers and I can see Treliving and his management team wanting him.  From KA's perspective, Reino is an RFA who will need a fat new contract, probably at around the same cost as Monahan's deal ($6.375MM per year for 3 more years) or higher, and he isn't as good as Monahan.

- The point made upthread about Kahun, VO and Ullmark also being RFAs is interesting.  I think VO and Kahun will definitely be back, but I'm not sure about Ullmark.  KA has to understand that they need to improve their goaltending.  If they keep Ullmark, I don't think they can give him a contract that isn't a #1 goalie contract -- and under current team and league economic circumstances, I can easily see them deciding that Ullmark isn't worth that kind of deal.

[WildCard]

I really, really, really, reeeaaaalllllllyyy don't think we should move Reinhart

[Randall Flagg]

It might be necessary for the trade to happen. But Reinhart is the exact player you want on Monahan's line, if they could pull off the miracle without it

Skinner - Eichel - Bennett/"top 6 wing"

Johansson - Monahan - Reinhart

Olofsson - Kahun - Cozens

4th line 

Would make me positively giddy

[dudacek]

Random thoughts:

Reinhart and Lindholm are very similar players, IMO, in stature and role.

Montour is definitely a player who should be of interest to Calgary.

Calgary’s reputed pursuit of Taylor Hall and the fact that interest may be reciprocal may factor into what the Flames are interested in moving in and out.

Tamps and Calgary remain the two highest teams on my radar because of their need for RD and the likelihood they may be interested in moving a top 6 player.

The idea the Sabres would be acquiring TWO top six forwards in this deal raises my eyebrows.

Edited August 4, 2020 by dudacek

[sabresparaavida]

I would not consider Bennet a top 6 forward. He is more of a solid defensive 3rd liner IMO.

[WildCard]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Random thoughts:

Reinhart and Lindholm are very similar players, IMO, in stature and role.

Montour is definitely a player who should be of interest to Calgary.

Calgary’s reputed pursuit of Taylor Hall and the fact that interest may be reciprocal may factor into what the Flames are interested in moving in and out.

Tamps and Calgary remain the two highest teams on my radar because of their need for RD and the likelihood they may be interested in moving a top 6 player.

The idea the Sabres would be acquiring TWO top six forwards in this deal raises my eyebrows.

Where have you seen this?

3 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

I would not consider Bennet a top 6 forward. He is more of a solid defensive 3rd liner IMO.

Definitely not a top 6 forward

Edited August 4, 2020 by WildCard

[Randall Flagg]

3 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

I would not consider Bennet a top 6 forward. He is more of a solid defensive 3rd liner IMO.

I'm honestly just forgetting the flames roster, that's all I could do.

[dudacek]

You want a blockbuster?

Monahan and Gaudreau for some combination of Reinhart Montour Cozens Mittelstadt #8

[dudacek]

3 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Where have you seen this?

Brian Costello of the Hockey News.

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

I really think if Sam is traded the best bet would be to Vancouver (Sam gives hometown discount) for any of Horvat, Boeser, or Miller.

If they give up Horvat they can still have Petterson and Miller down the middle. If Boeser is the trade then he's replaced by Sam. If Miller comes here they still have Horvat and Petterson. I think we should get something extra if it's Boeser or Miller.

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

According to my source, the sabres are in discussions that would bring in a second line center, as well as a top 6 winter from a team that is currently playing. The center is a player the board has talked about before. The sabres main blocks are tentatively agreed upon, but they may have to add significantly depending on playoff performance.

Based on this my guess would be Cirelli and either Killorn or Johnson

Gourde served as a D center prior to Cirelli usurping him and the coach supposedly really likes him hence I eliminate him from the winger category. The other would be Palat whom I doubt they'd trade seeing as he's only under contract 2 more years, has produced similar numbers to Johnson and Killorn but is younger than both. Out of the two above I would guess Johnson would be the one due to his contract being 4 years and being the same age as Killorn.

So, lets assume Cirelli and Johnson would be the 2C and Top Winger respectively, what would Tampa Bay desire?

They would want an RHD and more obviously. The 8th OA/our 2021 1st would likely be involved as well with conditions for the latter.

As for RHDs we have quite the stockpile of them.

Ristolainen 2 x 5.4 mil

Montour RFA (Approximately between 4 and 5 mil)

Miller 2 x 3.875 mil

Jokiharju on his last year of his ELC

Will Borgen and Ryan Johnson would be the other notable RHDs.

My first guess would be Jokiharju as for their primary desire but I do wonder if they could be looking at the others as well. The one negative about Jokiharju, is that he is an RFA next year and to be perfectly honest, their cap doesn't actually improve a ton. Even with Johnson's 5 mil off the books they would still be near the cap next year after Cernak and Sergachev's contracts. The other small problem with Tampa is that even with Johnson and Cirelli gone, they would to make another move just to open up enough space for a 4th line. (That being with Cernak and 2.75mil and Sergachev being at 5mil)

So part of me wonders how the heck they will fix this.

Also, I wouldn't trade a 1st with Joki.

10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

You want a blockbuster?

Monahan and Gaudreau for some combination of Reinhart Montour Cozens Mittelstadt #8

To be honest I wouldn't be interested in trading Reinhart or Cozens for either.

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Based on this my guess would be Cirelli and either Killorn or Johnson

Gourde served as a D center prior to Cirelli usurping him and the coach supposedly really likes him hence I eliminate him from the winger category. The other would be Palat whom I doubt they'd trade seeing as he's only under contract 2 more years, has produced similar numbers to Johnson and Killorn but is younger than both. Out of the two above I would guess Johnson would be the one due to his contract being 4 years and being the same age as Killorn.

So, lets assume Cirelli and Johnson would be the 2C and Top Winger respectively, what would Tampa Bay desire?

They would want an RHD and more obviously. The 8th OA/our 2021 1st would likely be involved as well with conditions for the latter.

As for RHDs we have quite the stockpile of them.

Ristolainen 2 x 5.4 mil

Montour RFA (Approximately between 4 and 5 mil)

Miller 2 x 3.875 mil

Jokiharju on his last year of his ELC

Will Borgen and Ryan Johnson would be the other notable RHDs.

My first guess would be Jokiharju as for their primary desire but I do wonder if they could be looking at the others as well. The one negative about Jokiharju, is that he is an RFA next year and to be perfectly honest, their cap doesn't actually improve a ton. Even with Johnson's 5 mil off the books they would still be near the cap next year after Cernak and Sergachev's contracts. The other small problem with Tampa is that even with Johnson and Cirelli gone, they would to make another move just to open up enough space for a 4th line. (That being with Cernak and 2.75mil and Sergachev being at 5mil)

So part of me wonders how the heck they will fix this.

Also, I wouldn't trade a 1st with Joki.

To be honest I wouldn't be interested in trading Reinhart or Cozens for either.

I like the fact that you don’t think all our players are crap, but I do think you like our players more than our record deserves.

Part of Tampa’s issues is the fact that their cap issues aren’t going away. 
They have 52 million committed to just 7 players in 2023/24, when the cap might still be flat.

Those players don’t include Sergachev, Cernak, Cirelli and Brayden Point.

[LGR4GM]

11 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

I really think if Sam is traded the best bet would be to Vancouver (Sam gives hometown discount) for any of Horvat, Boeser, or Miller.

If they give up Horvat they can still have Petterson and Miller down the middle. If Boeser is the trade then he's replaced by Sam. If Miller comes here they still have Horvat and Petterson. I think we should get something extra if it's Boeser or Miller.

so then what's the point? We trade never hurt Reinhart for 65 games a year of Boeser. Talk about spinning your tires. 

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I like the fact that you don’t think all our players are crap, but I do think you like our players more than our record deserves.

Part of Tampa’s issues is the fact that their cap issues aren’t going away. 
They have 52 million committed to just 7 players in 2023/24, when the cap might still be flat.

Those players don’t include Sergachev, Cernak, Cirelli and Brayden Point.

There's no way they can dump Stamkos, right? NTC?

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

so then what's the point? We trade never hurt Reinhart for 65 games a year of Boeser. Talk about spinning your tires. 

That's also why I said if it's Boeser we need to get more. I'm not a fan of the Boeser move, he's just been mentioned before.

 

[sabresparaavida]

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

so then what's the point? We trade never hurt Reinhart for 65 games a year of Boeser. Talk about spinning your tires. 

I would think if Reinhart is going out, and Boeser is coming back, there would need to be more pieces, like Horvat and Montour. Reinhart>Boeser and Horvat>Montour, balancing the trade a bit.

[inkman]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

so then what's the point? We trade never hurt Reinhart for 65 games a year of Boeser. Talk about spinning your tires. 

How dare thee vanquish the name of thou holiness Brock Boeser?  Did he date your sister or something? 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Couple of other thoughts:

- If it is Calgary and Monahan, Reino makes sense as the biggest piece going the other way.  He's a good player with good numbers and I can see Treliving and his management team wanting him.  From KA's perspective, Reino is an RFA who will need a fat new contract, probably at around the same cost as Monahan's deal ($6.375MM per year for 3 more years) or higher, and he isn't as good as Monahan.

- The point made upthread about Kahun, VO and Ullmark also being RFAs is interesting.  I think VO and Kahun will definitely be back, but I'm not sure about Ullmark.  KA has to understand that they need to improve their goaltending.  If they keep Ullmark, I don't think they can give him a contract that isn't a #1 goalie contract -- and under current team and league economic circumstances, I can easily see them deciding that Ullmark isn't worth that kind of deal.

I agree with you on the importance of goaltending. On the other hand I disagree with you on the Sabres' willingness to let him go. As it stands he's our best goaltender. Is he good enough to be a solid #1 goalie and capable of providing the level of play that will enable the team to make the playoffs? I'm simply not sure? But right now I don't know what option the organization has. I don't think that it is in the interest of the player and the franchise to go for a long term deal at this point. If the player after a short term deal demonstrates that he is a locked in #1 goalie he will be rewarded with with an enriching long-term deal. And if his play warrants a later bonanza deal the franchise would certainly be willing to pay a fair market price for that level of play. 

[In The Buff]

Considering the rumor involves a team currently in the playoffs, at least we're spared all the potential trades regarding Adam Henrique.

He's probably been talked about more here than on a Anaheim Ducks messageboard haha.

But i wouldnt be surprised if these rumors are true. It's what I'd hope our GM is doing. Wonder if its connected to the rumor we heard about Jbot, how he had been working on a deal prior to his firing, or if its something brand new from KA. Either way i hope for the best!

[Curt]

3 hours ago, nfreeman said:

 

- The point made upthread about Kahun, VO and Ullmark also being RFAs is interesting.  I think VO and Kahun will definitely be back, but I'm not sure about Ullmark.  KA has to understand that they need to improve their goaltending.  If they keep Ullmark, I don't think they can give him a contract that isn't a #1 goalie contract -- and under current team and league economic circumstances, I can easily see them deciding that Ullmark isn't worth that kind of deal.

What is a #1 goalie contract? 

There are plenty of teams who don’t have big money or term invested in a goalie.  You don’t need to pay your best goalie like a star just because he is your best goalie.  You pay him based on what he has shown he can do.

I honestly think this notion that every team needs a have a goalie who plays 60+ games, is given a big contract and anointed the #1 is pretty out dated.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Curt

[dudacek]

34 minutes ago, Curt said:

What is a #1 goalie contract? 

There are plenty of teams who don’t have big money or term invested in a goalie.  You don’t need to pay your best goalie like a star just because he is your best goalie.  You pay him based on what he has shown he can do.

I honestly think this notion that every team needs a have a goalie who plays 60+ games, is given a big contract and anointed the #1 is pretty out dated.

Mrazek, Griess and Grubauer reasonable Ullmark comps?

They got short-term deals in the low threes.

[Randall Flagg]

Cirelli + Killorn
Cirelli + Palat
Cirelli + Johnson
Cirelli + Gourde 
Likely constitutes all possible Cirelli iterations with a "top six wing"

Monahan/Lindholm + Tkachuk?
Monahan/Lindholm + Gaudreau?
Monahan + Lindholm?

Unless you count Mangiapane or Lucic as a top 6 wing, if this potential deal is with Calgary, it's probably going to be massive.

Strome + Kane
Strome + Saad
Strome + DeBrincat
Strome + Kubalik

are the likely possibilities that the source's info would allow from Chicago. Some are less exciting. 

Liger mentioned Frost, but Philly doesn't make sense as a team that fits the mold of potentially wanting to or needing to make a big move if they don't go far in the playoffs, the way Calgary (rumors of them wanting to blow up the core) and Tampa (money) do. Even Chicago doesn't really make sense.

What other centers have we talked about that are still playing?

Stepan + Kessel
Stepan + Keller
Stepan + Garland (22 goals)
Stepan + Dvorak (nice player...center?)
Stepan + Hall? (UFA though)

This doesn't really fit what we were given about the team hemming and hawing based on playoff results either, quite frankly. 

No way Vancouver moves a center.

Staal + Parise or Staal + Fiala? They love Fiala. I don't think this can be it either. 

The Jets don't have a 2C to give us. 

I really would guess it's Tampa or Calgary given what we have in this thread, and I think we need to pray to the hockey gods each night that this thing plays out