2020 Off-season gameplan

[Broken Ankles]

1 hour ago, freester said:

More like Ryan Johnson, Mitts 2021 1st

Mitts has little value to TB.  Wouldn’t crack their top 7 protected next year.    Concede they will find a way to sign Cirelli, take on Palat and extract Cernak in the processes.   

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

The problem of his overpaying for guys he wanted is that Botterill didn't value those guys and ended up with almost nothing for them:

O'Reilly: Thompson & Johnson only pieces that MIGHT be useful.

Lehner: walked for nothing (correct decision based on where he was on his recovery from his demons).

Kane: reasonable haul (can't recall ottomh exact return, but that was ok).

Fasching & Deslauriers: Hickey & Redmond (AHLers)

Kulikov: walked (but they still have Asplund)

That isn't much for everything that had gone out for those assets.  And another fear of why dumping Botterill might not work.  If Adams favors a different style yet, we could see additional pieces go out for pennies on the $.  (But Adams has talked a good game, so hopefully that fear doesn't come to fruition.)

I have no problem with Adams putting a massive stamp on the personnel of this team if he goes out and proactively does it in a timely matter - there's no rule that says you have to take a season (s). Be decisive. At least we know he doesn't get the benefit of needing an "evaluation" bumper. 

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I have no problem with Adams putting a massive stamp on the personnel of this team if he goes out and proactively does it in a timely matter - there's no rule that says you have to take a season (s). Be decisive. At least we know he doesn't get the benefit of needing an "evaluation" bumper. 

Taking a year off from changing the team wasn't where the post was going.  It was more of a possibility (strictly as a hypothetical, not that there's been any indication Adams would do this) that the new GM could totally want size & physicality in his D and move away from the puck moving corps that Botterill was trying to build.  That could lead to guys that Botts brought in getting dumped cheap to reload.

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Taking a year off from changing the team wasn't where the post was going.  It was more of a possibility (strictly as a hypothetical, not that there's been any indication Adams would do this) that the new GM could totally want size & physicality in his D and move away from the puck moving corps that Botterill was trying to build.  That could lead to guys that Botts brought in getting dumped cheap to reload.

Well that would be a really dense thing to do. Why do we have to worry about these things lol

But it's not like Botterill wasn't already underselling his own assets. Scandella? lol

Edited June 30, 2020 by Thorny

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Well that would be a really dense thing to do. Why do we have to worry about these things lol

But it's not like Botterill wasn't already underselling his own assets. Scandella? lol

It would be, but we've just lived it.  Until Adams demonstrates that minimal competence level of NOT doing that, it's still possible.  Though actually planning on using analytics as a predictive rather than a post mortem report generation tool is encouraging. 

[Thorner]

[Randall Flagg]

I see two realistic paths of change this summer. Both assume we can get either better play from Hutton, or a closer-to-average backup, bringing our goaltending to near average and hopefully not playing a major role in the season (unless in a surprisingly good way, but I'm picturing more like the goaltending the Canes got the last 2 years)

Path one has a 2C trade with the excitement level of the first ROR trade. It likely sends pick 8 out, and more. It fills the biggest hole in our roster, and leaves a diminished asset pool that limits what we can do elsewhere. There won't be enough assets available post-trade to do anything more than grab a Vesey or two. But nailing those depth picks becomes less important, because

Skinner - Eichel - Cozens/someone
Olofsson - electric 2C - Reinhart 
Johansson - Kahun - kid/Vesey-type addition
Lazar/GIrgensons - Larsson/UFA/Asplund - Okposo

Dahlin - Miller
McCabe/vet addition - Risto 
kid - Jokiharju

Ullmark
hopefully backup upgrade 

The cap available for the vet additions to fill in the bottom 6 and a defensive spot likely mean that 3-4 forwards are fairly weak, and that our defense isn't as good as it was last year, but the ability for 2C to play the role properly gives this roster a real shot, and gives Cozens, Mitts, Tage a chance to really be sheltered or protected by their role, and still give upside for Kahun and Olofsson in particular. The ceiling for this roster is fighting for home ice in the playoffs, which means anything is possible beyond that. It's going to be tough to find that trade. 

Path two involves finding a 2C, but one that won't break out the champagne for a celebration. Think Stepan, Henrique as a best case scenario, Strome or a Faksa level player as a worst case scenario. This likely keeps 8th overall in the organization this year, which isn't nothing. It also leaves other assets available to go after real depth. This is in theory easier than finding the 2C trade, though the path feels dangerous because of our abysmal track record of finding above-replacement-value depth forwards. Assuming they can do it though, you're looking at a roster like 

Skinner - Eichel - Cozens
Olofsson - Stepan - Reinhart
Johansson - Kahun - solid 3rd liner (Copp?)
Zemgus - Larry - Kyle, or the equivalent of a GOOD fourth line, one that can go + 8 in tough minutes like Larry/Zemgus did if they price themselves out. 

Kids, Lazar as depth

Dahlin - Miller
Cole - Risto 
good vet - Jokiharju
McCabe/Kids

goalies

In this case, we have more cap and assets to put something together for forward depth and can maintain a balanced defense group with real depth as well. In the first case, an injury to the forwards means there is nothing behind them, and we are stuck watching something like we saw in 15-16's best forward production. Not horrid, but nowhere near good enough to be the focal point of the roster, which the move is intended for. Similarly, their defense is weak in depth and doesn't have a proper distribution of roles. Injuries could ravage this team and make them indistinguishable from the 15-17 Sabres. If things go fairly well on that front, I see that team being able to go
+14 on line 1
+10 on line 2
~even on line 3
-4 on line 4

For a goal differential in line with a 3 seed in an average division, ~10th in the league. 

In the latter scenario, injuries become less of a problem unless they hit one specific player. we sacrifice line two performance to upgrade the contributions of the ones below it, and I can see something like 
+14
+1
+1
+2

potentially giving similar results. On the back end, Ian Cole gives you the ugly-but-necessary Scandella role that nobody is really good at on our current roster, someone else to give Joki the stability that Scandy did, and also likely helping the PK. On special teams, PP1 is likely the same while PP2 suffers compared to the first scenario. 

There are trade offs for each scenario, and the harder one depends on whether or not finding genuinely good depth, a rarity in Buffalo, is actually easier than making a hard trade for a 2C. It might not be. But I could feasibly be happy with a milquetoast 2C if genuine forward depth is brought in, and we can build a bottom six like

Mojo - Kahun - Copp
Faksa - Larsson - Okposo 
Reaves

or something, giving appropriate insulation/more time in development for the kids, ensuring they ONLY make the team if it's plainly obvious theyre ready 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Randall Flagg

[GASabresIUFAN]

To get Kane, Bogo, Lehner, and ROR plus Fasching TM traded away Zadorov, Compher, Armia, Lemieux, Myers, Stafford, Grigorenko, McNabb, 2 st rd picks, 3 2nd rd picks. These picks turned into Cernak, Roslovic, and Colin White.  By trading the picks away we missed out on drafting not only the guys mentioned by also Aho, Boeser, Konecny among others.  

In addition Bogo, Lehner and Kane all had significant injury histories when acquired.  None of these deals should have ever been made.  They decimated the organizational depth, and failed to take the organization into contention.

Sending McNabb, Parker and 2 2nd rd picks for 4th line Delo and 4th rd pick Fasching is in the top 5 worst trades in Sabres history.  And trading away McNabb, Pysyk, Zadorov and Myers left the cupboard on D pretty bare with only Guhle drafted as a replacement.

Edited June 30, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

To get Kane, Bogo, Lehner, and ROR plus Fasching TM traded away Zadorov, Compher, Armia, Lemieux, Myers, Stafford, Grigorenko, McNabb, 2 st rd picks, 3 2nd rd picks. These picks turned into Cernak, Roslovic, and Colin White.  By trading the picks away we missed out on drafting not only the guys mentioned by also Aho, Boeser, Konecny among others.  

In addition Bogo, Lehner and Kane all had significant injury histories when acquired.  None of these deals should have never been made.  They decimated the organizational depth and failed to take the organization into contention. 

The ROR trade absolutely should have been made. He is a Selke and Conn Smythe caliber player, and we gave up a bunch of mediocrity for him. 

There is a whole lot of garbage in the list of things given away, no genuinely good NHLers aside from a year of McNabb, and no guarantee that we would have taken those prospects anyway. Especially considering Cernak was taken by an organization that we didn't trade the pick to?

[GASabresIUFAN]

Cernak was drafted by LA and no the ROR trade shouldn’t have been made because our rebuild wasn’t far enough along.  Jack and Reinhart were rookies ROR first year.  We would have been much better served to keep the 2015 picks, wait a couple of years to see how all our prospects were developing and then start adding vets to supplement the kids. 

I can accept getting ROR because getting a player of his caliber doesn’t come around very often.  However Lehner was damaged goods and wasn’t any better then the guys we had already acquired in Neuvirth and Halak.  With his concussion history made it a high risk, medium reward trade that wasn’t worth the price. Kane was a clubhouse cancer and injured when acquired and Bogo (Also an injury risk) wasn’t as good as Myers.  That trade made zero sense then and makes less sense now, especially in light of the quality of the 2015 draft.  Those 1st rd picks were gold and he pissed then away in a drunken spending spree.

Those solid but unspectacular NHL players like Armia, Compher, Lemieux, McNabb and Cernak are called depth and something we are still lacking.

Edited June 30, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Cernak was drafted by LA and no the ROR trade shouldn’t have been made because our rebuild wasn’t far enough along.  Jack and Reinhart were rookies ROR isn’t year.  We f=would have been much better served wait a couple of years to see how all our prospects were developing and then start adding vets to supplement the kids. 

I can accept getting ROR because getting a player of his caliber doesn’t come around very often.  However Lehner was damaged goods and wasn’t any better then the guys we had already acquired in Neuvirth and Halak.  With his concussion history made it a high risk, medium reward trade that wasn’t worth the price. Kane was a clubhouse cancer and injured when acquired and Bogo (Also an injury risk) wasn’t as good as Myers.  That trade made zero sense then and makes less sense now, especially in light of the quality of the 2015 draft.  Those 1st rd picks were gold and he pissed then away in a drunken spending spree.

Minor quibble: Halak never played for the Sabres and had no intention of coming back.  Yes 21 was an overpayment for Lehner.  31 would've been as well, but wouldn't have seemed soooo horrible.  And 21 going out for O'Reilly would've been viewed in the "you want to get an O'Reilly, it's going to cost."

Too bad (for us) that Murray truly GZFs about the human / social side of building a team.  He had a good eye for talent but seriously underestimated injury concerns & absolutely didn't get the concept of chemistry.

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

I see two realistic paths of change this summer. Both assume we can get either better play from Hutton, or a closer-to-average backup, bringing our goaltending to near average and hopefully not playing a major role in the season (unless in a surprisingly good way, but I'm picturing more like the goaltending the Canes got the last 2 years)

Path one has a 2C trade with the excitement level of the first ROR trade. It likely sends pick 8 out, and more. It fills the biggest hole in our roster, and leaves a diminished asset pool that limits what we can do elsewhere. There won't be enough assets available post-trade to do anything more than grab a Vesey or two. But nailing those depth picks becomes less important, because

Skinner - Eichel - Cozens/someone
Olofsson - electric 2C - Reinhart 
Johansson - Kahun - kid/Vesey-type addition
Lazar/GIrgensons - Larsson/UFA/Asplund - Okposo

Dahlin - Miller
McCabe/vet addition - Risto 
kid - Jokiharju

Ullmark
hopefully backup upgrade 

The cap available for the vet additions to fill in the bottom 6 and a defensive spot likely mean that 3-4 forwards are fairly weak, and that our defense isn't as good as it was last year, but the ability for 2C to play the role properly gives this roster a real shot, and gives Cozens, Mitts, Tage a chance to really be sheltered or protected by their role, and still give upside for Kahun and Olofsson in particular. The ceiling for this roster is fighting for home ice in the playoffs, which means anything is possible beyond that. It's going to be tough to find that trade. 

Path two involves finding a 2C, but one that won't break out the champagne for a celebration. Think Stepan, Henrique as a best case scenario, Strome or a Faksa level player as a worst case scenario. This likely keeps 8th overall in the organization this year, which isn't nothing. It also leaves other assets available to go after real depth. This is in theory easier than finding the 2C trade, though the path feels dangerous because of our abysmal track record of finding above-replacement-value depth forwards. Assuming they can do it though, you're looking at a roster like 

Skinner - Eichel - Cozens
Olofsson - Stepan - Reinhart
Johansson - Kahun - solid 3rd liner (Copp?)
Zemgus - Larry - Kyle, or the equivalent of a GOOD fourth line, one that can go + 8 in tough minutes like Larry/Zemgus did if they price themselves out. 

Kids, Lazar as depth

Dahlin - Miller
Cole - Risto 
good vet - Jokiharju
McCabe/Kids

goalies

In this case, we have more cap and assets to put something together for forward depth and can maintain a balanced defense group with real depth as well. In the first case, an injury to the forwards means there is nothing behind them, and we are stuck watching something like we saw in 15-16's best forward production. Not horrid, but nowhere near good enough to be the focal point of the roster, which the move is intended for. Similarly, their defense is weak in depth and doesn't have a proper distribution of roles. Injuries could ravage this team and make them indistinguishable from the 15-17 Sabres. If things go fairly well on that front, I see that team being able to go
+14 on line 1
+10 on line 2
~even on line 3
-4 on line 4

For a goal differential in line with a 3 seed in an average division, ~10th in the league. 

In the latter scenario, injuries become less of a problem unless they hit one specific player. we sacrifice line two performance to upgrade the contributions of the ones below it, and I can see something like 
+14
+1
+1
+2

potentially giving similar results. On the back end, Ian Cole gives you the ugly-but-necessary Scandella role that nobody is really good at on our current roster, someone else to give Joki the stability that Scandy did, and also likely helping the PK. On special teams, PP1 is likely the same while PP2 suffers compared to the first scenario. 

There are trade offs for each scenario, and the harder one depends on whether or not finding genuinely good depth, a rarity in Buffalo, is actually easier than making a hard trade for a 2C. It might not be. But I could feasibly be happy with a milquetoast 2C if genuine forward depth is brought in, and we can build a bottom six like

Mojo - Kahun - Copp
Faksa - Larsson - Okposo 
Reaves

or something, giving appropriate insulation/more time in development for the kids, ensuring they ONLY make the team if it's plainly obvious theyre ready 

 

I could live with Henrique but Stepan and either Strome are a no go for me. 

 

I'm a tad curious as to what players you classify in the electric 2Cs worth #8 and some other stuff?

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Broken Ankles said:

Mitts has little value to TB.  Wouldn’t crack their top 7 protected next year.    Concede they will find a way to sign Cirelli, take on Palat and extract Cernak in the processes.   

Tampa would leave Johnson, Palat, Killorn and Gourde exposed. It’s a good way of dealing with their contract crunch. They can only lose one. They’d protect Point, Stamkos, Cirelli, Kucherov, Leaving three spots for kids. I have no idea if they like Mitts, but they are definitely in the market for young, cheap skill.

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

The problem of his overpaying for guys he wanted is that Botterill didn't value those guys and ended up with almost nothing for them:

O'Reilly: Thompson & Johnson only pieces that MIGHT be useful.

Lehner: walked for nothing (correct decision based on where he was on his recovery from his demons).

Kane: reasonable haul (can't recall ottomh exact return, but that was ok).

Fasching & Deslauriers: Hickey & Redmond (AHLers)

Kulikov: walked (but they still have Asplund)

That isn't much for everything that had gone out for those assets.  And another fear of why dumping Botterill might not work.  If Adams favors a different style yet, we could see additional pieces go out for pennies on the $.  (But Adams has talked a good game, so hopefully that fear doesn't come to fruition.)

[Edit: forgot 1]Bogosian out for nada as well.

Not sure if it was a deliberate oversight, but Miller is the 3rd component of the O’Reilly trade. He was acquired with St. louis’ 2nd. People seem to frequently overlook that.

Kane ended up Kane and Guhle for Montour and cap space. You can decide if that space was well-spent.

Edited June 30, 2020 by dudacek

[Thorner]

For the record, I don't think they'll actually try to shoehorn Cozens into the 2C role. I think if they failed to bring in that centre their plan at 2C would be Kahun. 

Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart

Skinner - Kahun - Cozens

...is the "we only care about saving money" '20 top 6. And, @Randall Flagg, a 3rd potential path. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Thorny

[dudacek]

kahun was a middle six RW who averaged less than 12 minutes a game with Krueger, with Johansson playing centre. And that was on a team that didn’t have Cozens and Mittelstadt on it.

I liked what I saw of him, but I don’t believe they acquired him with an eye on being their 2C this year. He has no more NHL experience there than Cozens, and less experience than casey and Mojo, or Reinhart, for that matter.

Not only has Kevyn failed if he is the plan at 2C but Mittlestadt, Cozens, and Johansson failed as well.

 

13 minutes ago, Thorny said:

For the record, I don't think they'll actually try to shoehorn Cozens into the 2C role. I think if they failed to bring in that centre their plan at 2C would be Kahun. 

Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart

Skinner - Kahun - Cozens

...is the "we only care about saving money" '20 top 6. And, @Randall Flagg, a 3rd potential path. 

 

[PerreaultForever]

44 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not only has Kevyn failed if he is the plan at 2C but Mittlestadt, Cozens, and Johansson failed as well.

I think it safe to say at this moment in time there is no legit 2C on the team. If there is no trade for one it's another year much of the same.

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

kahun was a middle six RW who averaged less than 12 minutes a game with Krueger, with Johansson playing centre. And that was on a team that didn’t have Cozens and Mittelstadt on it.

I liked what I saw of him, but I don’t believe they acquired him with an eye on being their 2C this year. He has no more NHL experience there than Cozens, and less experience than casey and Mojo, or Reinhart, for that matter.

Not only has Kevyn failed if he is the plan at 2C but Mittlestadt, Cozens, and Johansson failed as well.

 

 

Hope not. Just something about those “Hey, don’t forget Kahun is a natural centre!” comments from brass after our season ended. Maybe it was the previous GM’s idea. 

[Taro T]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

Tampa would leave Johnson, Palat, Killorn and Gourde exposed. It’s a good way of dealing with their contract crunch. They can only lose one. They’d protect Point, Stamkos, Cirelli, Kucherov, Leaving three spots for kids. I have no idea if they like Mitts, but they are definitely in the market for young, cheap skill.

Not sure if it was a deliberate oversight, but Miller is the 3rd component of the O’Reilly trade. He was acquired with St. louis’ 2nd. People seem to frequently overlook that.

Kane ended up Kane and Guhle for Montour and cap space. You can decide if that space was well-spent.

Not deliberate at all.  Been tremendously busy since the lockdowns started & was posting about an hour after should've already been in bed.

Sadly, though Miller is a good player, he doesn't seem to fit into Krueger's vision of how the D should be assembled.  Maybe that'll change with the LHD corps as thin as it is & he'll slot in after either Ristolainen/Montour are traded or if Montour ends up full time on the left side (shudders).  Am more expecting he ends up traded, if as part of the 2C package & that 2C is actually legit, then cool.  But considering Buffalo doesn't value him highly, can't see what the Sabres get back being worth writing home about.  But, yes, that does make the O'Reilly trade a smidgen less horrible, but it's still horrible.

[Taro T]

5 hours ago, Thorny said:

Hope not. Just something about those “Hey, don’t forget Kahun is a natural centre!” comments from brass after our season ended. Maybe it was the previous GM’s idea. 

Am hoping that Kahun there is only the "well the guy we traded for is injured & so is Johansson, so let's throw him in" plan.  But Krueger's & Botterill's comments indicated that he could be higher in the pecking order.  It could work; but am very tired of watching these experiments that need a whole lot to go right that hasn't already been proven.  Because Olofsson at wing is the only F one that has worked out since the Pegulas bought the team.

[LGR4GM]

I think Kahun at 2rw could work. Kahun was producing both here and in Pitt. His advanced metrics are actually interesting. Let's just hope he is comfortable playing the right side. 

Skinner - Cozens? - Kahun

Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart

[JohnC]

30 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Am hoping that Kahun there is only the "well the guy we traded for is injured & so is Johansson, so let's throw him in" plan.  But Krueger's & Botterill's comments indicated that he could be higher in the pecking order.  It could work; but am very tired of watching these experiments that need a whole lot to go right that hasn't already been proven.  Because Olofsson at wing is the only F one that has worked out since the Pegulas bought the team.

If Kahun becomes more of a good third line player than a genuine second line player the deal for him is still a plus deal for us. Getting more lower line production is a critical need for this team. 

You make an excellent point that this organization has for too long  counted on "if" players.  Not much has materialized from this category of players. However, when the "if" players are young players then over time some of those "if" players can turn into "can do" players. This organization needs some luck from its current batch of "if" players such as Tage-Mitts-Cozens-Kahun. We need some good fortune for the potential to be realized into production. Is it too much to expect or too soon to expect? Maybe, maybe not?   

[Taro T]

46 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If Kahun becomes more of a good third line player than a genuine second line player the deal for him is still a plus deal for us. Getting more lower line production is a critical need for this team.

You make an excellent point that this organization has for too long  counted on "if" players.  Not much has materialized from this category of players. However, when the "if" players are young players then over time some of those "if" players can turn into "can do" players. This organization needs some luck from its current batch of "if" players such as Tage-Mitts-Cozens-Kahun. We need some good fortune for the potential to be realized into production. Is it too much to expect or too soon to expect? Maybe, maybe not?   

To the bolded, absolutely.  Rodrigues didn't fit into the LT plans and Sheary, after Skinner was signed was never going to play consistently on Eichel's line, so he was effectively an expensive 3rd liner as well.  Getting a guy that should be fairly cheap for the next 2-3 years that still MIGHT have more to show was an excellent pickup.  And he's still a very good acquisition if he never ends up more than a utility player that can move up a line in a pinch.

But that Olofsson-Johansdon-Kahun line was displaying chemistry in the brief time they were together.  If there's a real 2C brought in that could allow the basis for 3 solid (though not spectacular) lines as there'd be 4 top 6 guys on those 2 lines & hopefully another piece or 2 could also be brought in.  Though it would be more likely that Thompson, Mittelstadt, &/or Fozins would get looks at top 6 wing slots then.  

My guess is that Olofsson stays top 6 & Thompson gets 1st crack at 2RW, w/ Kahun & Cozens also getting looks.  So, Johansson is the steadying influence on the red scoring line working w/ 2 of the 4 (including Kahun) young guys.

And agree that they need some luck with the young guys, but the best way to get lucky is to find that 2C and let everybody else play where they should, not where they have to.

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

To the bolded, absolutely.  Rodrigues didn't fit into the LT plans and Sheary, after Skinner was signed was never going to play consistently on Eichel's line, so he was effectively an expensive 3rd liner as well.  Getting a guy that should be fairly cheap for the next 2-3 years that still MIGHT have more to show was an excellent pickup.  And he's still a very good acquisition if he never ends up more than a utility player that can move up a line in a pinch.

But that Olofsson-Johansdon-Kahun line was displaying chemistry in the brief time they were together.  If there's a real 2C brought in that could allow the basis for 3 solid (though not spectacular) lines as there'd be 4 top 6 guys on those 2 lines & hopefully another piece or 2 could also be brought in.  Though it would be more likely that Thompson, Mittelstadt, &/or Fozins would get looks at top 6 wing slots then.  

My guess is that Olofsson stays top 6 & Thompson gets 1st crack at 2RW, w/ Kahun & Cozens also getting looks.  So, Johansson is the steadying influence on the red scoring line working w/ 2 of the 4 (including Kahun) young guys.

And agree that they need some luck with the young guys, but the best way to get lucky is to find that 2C and let everybody else play where they should, not where they have to.

Botterill has received some deserved criticism for his rebuild strategy of being too patient with his draft and develop approach. I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I believe it was to an extent working but the time required to take that route was a factor in his demise. He needed to be more bold and exhibit greater urgency to accelerate the rebuild process especially with Jack in his prime. There is not question that the ROR trade had lingering damaging consequences. But let's give credit where deserved. I thought the Jokiharju deal for Nylander was a terrific deal and the acquisition of Kahun for players who weren't going to be here the next year was also excellent deal.  

I thought Joki was our most consistent defenseman last year. I think he is going to be a gem.

[Taro T]

Just now, JohnC said:

Botterill has received some deserved criticism for his rebuild strategy of being too patient with his draft and develop approach. I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I believe it was to an extent working but the time required to take that route was a factor in his demise. He needed to be more bold and exhibit greater urgency to accelerate the rebuild process especially with Jack in his prime. There is not question that the ROR trade had lingering damaging consequences. But let's give credit where deserved. I thought the Jokiharju deal for Nylander was a terrific deal and the acquisition of Kahun for players who weren't going to be here the next year was also excellent deal.  

I thought Joki was our most consistent defenseman last year. I think he is going to be a gem.

Jokiharju tailed off to some degree after Scandella was traded.  Am hopeful that he'll grow into a #3, but we've seen a lot of guys flash that potential when 1st brought in/up & they haven't lived up to the billing.  Am hopeful he can do it, but this next season will let us know whether he's a Tallinder in waiting or a Gragnani.

 

And, at the end of the day, the reason Botterill is hone is he never adequately replaced O'Reilly.  Hitting on some of the little ones doesn't matter if the big ones are misses.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

Jokiharju tailed off to some degree after Scandella was traded.  Am hopeful that he'll grow into a #3, but we've seen a lot of guys flash that potential when 1st brought in/up & they haven't lived up to the billing.  Am hopeful he can do it, but this next season will let us know whether he's a Tallinder in waiting or a Gragnani.

Scandella was a superb mentor and complement to the young defenseman. Joki was 20 yrs old last year. His poise for his age and inexperience was impressive. I see a lot of upside with him. Internal improvement by our young players is going to be an important factor in making this team credible. 

You make a keen observation. I watched some of the old games on MSG during this hockey interlude. I didn't realize how good Tallinder was. Because he was so efficient and not a banger he was not a high profile player. But without a doubt this quiet player was an instrumental player.