2020 Off-season gameplan

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

What leverage is gained against Adams by having a ridiculous leaked story he'll let Montour walk circulating?

All he has to do is reply he isn't Botterill & Montour isn't Pilut (who will likely be tendered a QO to retain his rights if/when he comes back btw) and that leverage has shifted to the new guy.

He gets lowball offers from other GM's sniffing around hoping he makes a mistake or panics, this is just a mind game. I really don't get why anyone believes the Sabres will just let Montour wonder away. 

[dudacek]

47 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

Talked with my source, said he had not heard that. Thought it was funny, wondering where they had heard that.

 

24 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If you think about it from outside of the Sabres it makes sense. Somebody just tells Friedman to put that rumor out there because they want some leverage in trade talks. Friedman does because that someone gives him insider info. 

It really sounds like one of those speculative things that gets legs because it's interesting.

GMs are considering not qualifying guys because of the cap. The industry is wondering who might be affected. Someone says "Buffalo makes sense. They have a lot of RFAs and look to be in cost-cutting mode." The telephone game turns that into Montour. Friedman hears it from more than one source and mentions it as something that is floating around out there.

Edited August 13, 2020 by dudacek

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Gabrielor said:

Friedmann has a recent (Botterill era) history of leaking Sabres news, and then being wrong, so it's not surprising.

Oh so Botts leaked this to make the Sabres look bad. 

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

If you think about it from outside of the Sabres it makes sense. Somebody just tells Friedman to put that rumor out there because they want some leverage in trade talks. Friedman does because that someone gives him insider info. 

If that's true, Friedman is a knob. 

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

Yeah, it makes no sense.  Half the league is looking for RHD.  Montour should bring back a quality top 6 forward piece.

Nope! 

Maybe in a bigger package, though. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Thorny

[Gabrielor]

Wouldn't be a shock to me if someone in Hockey Canada conjured this. They love Botterill.

[DarthEbriate]

There are three ways for GM Sheevyn to handle this:

1. You either qualify (or even sign an extension) with Montour and then go forward to next season -- and be willing to trade him for the right deal. That's the commonsense approach (let's call it the Veers).

2. You trade Montour before qualifying because you have an agreement in place with another GM and then he's theirs to do with as they wish (they may be looking to extend at a reasonable offer that Montour and his agent will like, rather than qualifying/bridging). It could even be part of the trade parameters because the other team wants some form of protection or expansion draft set up of their own. (let's call this the Piett.)

3. And then there's the Ozzel. Be as clumsy and as stupid as possible. Let Montour walk for nothing, only to watch him sign a 2-year, $3.5M deal, and get traded for a late 1st again.

Edited August 13, 2020 by DarthEbriate

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, Gabrielor said:

Wouldn't be a shock to me if someone in Hockey Canada conjured this. They love Botterill.

Surprising, considering how little Botterill cared for the prospects they develop lol 

[Taro T]

8 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

He gets lowball offers from other GM's sniffing around hoping he makes a mistake or panics, this is just a mind game. I really don't get why anyone believes the Sabres will just let Montour wonder away. 

And again, if anything that seems to give Adams a really easy jujitsu move turning the leverage (if any) towards his direction.

And agree and have been saying since the story broke that there is no way Montour walks for nothing.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

And again, if anything that seems to give Adams a really easy jujitsu move turning the leverage (if any) towards his direction.

And agree and have been saying since the story broke that there is no way Montour walks for nothing.

It also may be aimed at Montour as a tone setter: someone outside suggesting if he gets greedy early he could bluff himself to UFA? someone trying to poison early talks, or prompt one party to the table now?

Who knows what game is being played?

[Shootica]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

And again, if anything that seems to give Adams a really easy jujitsu move turning the leverage (if any) towards his direction.

And agree and have been saying since the story broke that there is no way Montour walks for nothing.

I wouldn't even necessarily call it leverage.  It's a test.

If this theory is correct (and it makes the most sense to me), this it some other GM looking at a new, inexperienced GM and wondering if he can scare him into accepting a lowball offer by making the word on the street that Montour has little to no trade value.

Obviously, this would be very easy for Adams to disprove as long as other teams are interested.  But if only one team has a serious offer on the table, maybe he'd be pressured into taking something well below his ask.

All speculation, but that makes more sense to me than Buffalo refusing to give him a $3.525M QO.

[Taro T]

11 minutes ago, Shootica said:

I wouldn't even necessarily call it leverage.  It's a test.

If this theory is correct (and it makes the most sense to me), this it some other GM looking at a new, inexperienced GM and wondering if he can scare him into accepting a lowball offer by making the word on the street that Montour has little to no trade value.

Obviously, this would be very easy for Adams to disprove as long as other teams are interested.  But if only one team has a serious offer on the table, maybe he'd be pressured into taking something well below his ask.

All speculation, but that makes more sense to me than Buffalo refusing to give him a $3.525M QO.

1st off, we agree there is no way Montour walks for free.

2nd, Liger's theory does not make the most sense.  Somebody else here nailed the most likely source of this.  Bored media or Twitter guy sees that cap is flat & a lot of teams will be tight to the cap and expect some RFAs to walk because of that. Bored guy sees Sabres have a bunch of FAs this year and has heard speculation owner is broke.  Bored guy also sees Montour is relatively expensive and Sabres are stacked at RHD.  If somebody's gonna get non-qualified, why not Montour?  Then he tells 2 friends, then they tell 2 friends, then Friedman hears it from 2 of these schmucks.  Then we hear it from that schmuck.  THAT makes the most sense.

[kas23]

This is a very simple rumor to squash. Give him the QO of a measly $3,525,000. End of rumor. End of “mind games”. Not the end of sloppy “reporting” though. 

[Shootica]

55 minutes ago, Taro T said:

1st off, we agree there is no way Montour walks for free.

2nd, Liger's theory does not make the most sense.  Somebody else here nailed the most likely source of this.  Bored media or Twitter guy sees that cap is flat & a lot of teams will be tight to the cap and expect some RFAs to walk because of that. Bored guy sees Sabres have a bunch of FAs this year and has heard speculation owner is broke.  Bored guy also sees Montour is relatively expensive and Sabres are stacked at RHD.  If somebody's gonna get non-qualified, why not Montour?  Then he tells 2 friends, then they tell 2 friends, then Friedman hears it from 2 of these schmucks.  Then we hear it from that schmuck.  THAT makes the most sense.

Eh, personally I think Friedman is more well connected than that.  If he says he's hearing a name being thrown around, I'm inclined to believe it is more than a couple schmucks saying it.

That being said, completely agree that there's no way we let Montour walk for nothing.

[Marvin]

11 hours ago, Shootica said:

Eh, personally I think Friedman is more well connected than that.  If he says he's hearing a name being thrown around, I'm inclined to believe it is more than a couple schmucks saying it.

That being said, completely agree that there's no way we let Montour walk for nothing.

In case I don't find your first post, welcome to SabreSpace!

[dudacek]

One of the negative things about subscribing to the Athletic is the continued reminders of how unconnected our media is.

Rob Rossi and Josh Yohe combined for this magnificent post-mortem on the Penguins season peppered with interviews with "more than a dozen team, league and industry sources."

https://theathletic.com/1992907/2020/08/13/inside-the-penguins-collapse-and-the-big-changes-that-still-remain/

Among the takes from people in the know:

• Some players questioned the decision to ride Murray, who the brass loves
• Sullivan likes "yes men" assistants and needed to be challenged
• Players said adding Sheary, Rodrigues and Marleau was a blow to chemistry: "Too much change"
• Players said Kahun was a good player who shouldn't have been moved
• Sullivan put too much faith in guys who delivered before but weren't now (Sheary, Schultz)
• Malkin and Crosby aren't being traded. Sid has has asked ownership to keep Geno and Geno says he wants to stay
• Pens (and many other teams) aren't likely spend to the cap this year.
• Sullivan stayed positive when players thought they deserved their ***** kicked instead. The organization was overconfident.
• They really missed what Kessel brought to the PP, which was flaccid.
• People are stunned by the firing of Sergei Gonchar, considered one of the best teachers of defencemen in the game.
• There will be an exodus of pricey vets behind the stars this summer, but buyouts will be a last resort.

This is what happens when reporters build relationships with the people they cover.

Pens fans get the inside dope. We get Paul Hamilton's leading questions and Mike Harrington's bile.

Edited August 14, 2020 by dudacek

[In The Buff]

14 minutes ago, dudacek said:

One of the negative things about subscribing to the Athletic is the continued reminders of how unconnected our media is.

Rob Rossi and Josh Yohe combined for this magnificent post-mortem on the Penguins season peppered with interviews with "more than a dozen team, league and industry sources."

https://theathletic.com/1992907/2020/08/13/inside-the-penguins-collapse-and-the-big-changes-that-still-remain/

Among the takes from people in the know:

• Some players questioned the decision to ride Murray, who the brass loves
• Sullivan likes "yes men" assistants and needed to be challenged
• Players said adding Sheary, Rodrigues and Marleau was a blow to chemistry: "Too much change"
• Players said Kahun was a good player who shouldn't have been moved
• Sullivan put too much faith in guys who delivered before but weren't now (Sheary, Schultz)
• Malkin and Crosby aren't being traded. Sid has has asked ownership to keep Geno and Geno says he wants to stay
• Pens (and many other teams) aren't likely spend to the cap this year.
• Sullivan stayed positive when players thought they deserved their ***** kicked instead. The organization was overconfident.
• They really missed what Kessel brought to the PP, which was flaccid.
• People are stunned by the firing of Sergei Gonchar, considered one of the best teachers of defencemen in the game.
• There will be an exodus of pricey vets behind the stars this summer, but buyouts will be a last resort.

This is what happens when reporters build relationships with the people they cover.

Pens fans get the inside dope. We get Paul Hamilton's leading questions and Mike Harrington's bile.

Agree totally about our local sports media. Not that surprising either without naming names (you already took care of that for me) ?

But I'm not saying i know a lot about the Penguins but from watching their series versus Montreal, I saw Sheary all over the place & involved in a lot of plays. Thats not a stats based analysis just what i saw on the screen. However Game 1 with Sheary on the penalty shot, he doesn't cash in & misses it wide. If he makes that shot, the Pens win game 1 most likely & if they still win the 2nd game, they go up 2-0 in the series. Rodriguez I don't think even saw the ice. But they sure played disjointed & not like a well oiled machine, whereas Montreal seemed to gain confidence every game. I can also see why they'd miss Kahun. It makes me all warm inside knowing that we actually made out on a trade for once & got the better player. I do know they had a ton of injuries this year & that after having 4 months off, its hard to draw on the season you had with a break like that, to then carry it over into the postseason. With that much of a layoff, when the qualifying round started, it was like day 1 all over again to some extent.

Their powerplay was also a big reason for their loss. They went 3 for 17, pretty disappointing when you have a Crosby & Malkin... which also leads into Carey Price. He played a heck of a series & was awarded with a Top 3 stars in 3 out of the 4 games. No coincidence they lost the series 3-1 imo.

Lots of good points in that article by "those who know" for sure. For our Sabres, i think its far easier to discern what went wrong or is wrong with us. Our GM didn't address our team needs & as a result we had a subpar roster of talent, coupled with shaky goaltending where we were playing a guy who literally couldn't see.  TLDR, it doesn't really take an inside scoop to see why we sucked lol.

[thewookie1]

58 minutes ago, dudacek said:

One of the negative things about subscribing to the Athletic is the continued reminders of how unconnected our media is.

Rob Rossi and Josh Yohe combined for this magnificent post-mortem on the Penguins season peppered with interviews with "more than a dozen team, league and industry sources."

https://theathletic.com/1992907/2020/08/13/inside-the-penguins-collapse-and-the-big-changes-that-still-remain/

Among the takes from people in the know:

• Some players questioned the decision to ride Murray, who the brass loves
• Sullivan likes "yes men" assistants and needed to be challenged
• Players said adding Sheary, Rodrigues and Marleau was a blow to chemistry: "Too much change"
• Players said Kahun was a good player who shouldn't have been moved
• Sullivan put too much faith in guys who delivered before but weren't now (Sheary, Schultz)
• Malkin and Crosby aren't being traded. Sid has has asked ownership to keep Geno and Geno says he wants to stay
• Pens (and many other teams) aren't likely spend to the cap this year.
• Sullivan stayed positive when players thought they deserved their ***** kicked instead. The organization was overconfident.
• They really missed what Kessel brought to the PP, which was flaccid.
• People are stunned by the firing of Sergei Gonchar, considered one of the best teachers of defencemen in the game.
• There will be an exodus of pricey vets behind the stars this summer, but buyouts will be a last resort.

This is what happens when reporters build relationships with the people they cover.

Pens fans get the inside dope. We get Paul Hamilton's leading questions and Mike Harrington's bile.

 

I wonder if we should look into Gonchar?

[Flashsabre]

On 8/13/2020 at 10:55 AM, sabresparaavida said:

Talked with my source, said he had not heard that. Thought it was funny, wondering where they had heard that.

https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Sabres-Could-Go-Hard-After-Pietrangelo-PHITOR-Chart-UpdateFris-Buzz/1/106943

 

what has your source heard about Eklund’s latest gem?

[Flashsabre]

12 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

 

I wonder if we should look into Gonchar?

Hopefully Mike Bales could put in a good word.  If Botts was here I would imagine it would be a possibility but I don’t know with Adams.  Did they ever play together?  I have heard that the Pens players thought Gonchar was excellent in the past.  Him mentoring Dahlin and Joker would be tremendous.

[LGR4GM]

7 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Sabres-Could-Go-Hard-After-Pietrangelo-PHITOR-Chart-UpdateFris-Buzz/1/106943

 

what has your source heard about Eklund’s latest gem?

Why the ***** would a team with potentially 5 nhl level rhd, go after Pietrangelo? 

Ecklund, is garbage. 

[inkman]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Why the ***** would a team with potentially 5 nhl level rhd, go after Pietrangelo? 

Ecklund, is garbage. 

A team trying to get better?  

[Broken Ankles]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Why the ***** would a team with potentially 5 nhl level rhd, go after Pietrangelo? 

Ecklund, is garbage. 

Leadership

Playoff experience 

An a perfect pairing partner for Rasmus that can play #1 ES minutes.  

PK skills (which don’t seem to exist with any of the current 5)

The head coach doesn’t seem to think much of Miller.

The probable trades of Risto and Montour this off-season.

A salary cap year where you are not in a huge bidding war and the cost for a top-flight D will be less than others.  

If the Sabres trade Miller, Montour and Risto (not saying this is likely) it makes sense to add stability.  The average AAV between a Pietrangelo and Will Borgen wold be about the same as Risto and Miller.  

[LGR4GM]

33 minutes ago, inkman said:

A team trying to get better?  

Botterill... is that you? 

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

Leadership

Playoff experience 

An a perfect pairing partner for Rasmus that can play #1 ES minutes.  

PK skills (which don’t seem to exist with any of the current 5)

The head coach doesn’t seem to think much of Miller.

The probable trades of Risto and Montour this off-season.

A salary cap year where you are not in a huge bidding war and the cost for a top-flight D will be less than others.  

If the Sabres trade Miller, Montour and Risto (not saying this is likely) it makes sense to add stability.  The average AAV between a Pietrangelo and Will Borgen wold be about the same as Risto and Miller.  

So in 1 to say the coach doesn't like Miller and in your next sentence you mention Risto who the coach does like. Good times. 

Will Borgen is the perfect Dahlin partner if he can get there. 

Also the cost of defense is down but you're proposing trading at least 2. 

Can't believe we're entertaining ecklund rumors now. 

Can't believe we're entertaining ecklund rumors now. 

Edited August 15, 2020 by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

Pientrangelo is 30? Oh hell no. Not being in a bidding war to sign a 30yr old defender to a 6 year contract. 

[Broken Ankles]

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Pientrangelo is 30? Oh hell no. Not being in a bidding war to sign a 30yr old defender to a 6 year contract. 

Seemed to work for the Canadians and Shea Weber.  And they don’t even have a Dahlin to supplement that.