Who is replacing Botterill? No, really ...

[Zamboni]

10 minutes ago, OverPowerYou said:

Bring in Lindy Ruff as GM. Anyone? 

Has he ever been an assistant GM? No?

Has he every been a GM? No?

Has he ever been anything besides a player or a coach? No?

Don’t care for a GM with no experience. We’ve tried that. Twice now. I couldn’t care less that Ruff played for and coached the Sabres. For me .... moving on. He’s in my rear view...

[Tondas]

44 minutes ago, OverPowerYou said:

Bring in Lindy Ruff as GM. Anyone? 

No GM experience.  OK.  I get it.  But I can't fathom ANY circumstance where Ruff would allow a pansy team to represent Buffalo.  We all see it.  We all feel it.  Win with fight.  Lose with fight.  I don't care, but fight.  I'm not saying drop the gloves every shift, but damn, push back, protect your goalie, protect you teammates.  Let the other team know that there are ramifications if they take liberties.  Get in front of their net and stay there.  Battle.  Hack. Shove. Sweat.  Hit to hurt but not to injure.  I know this is simple but not easy.  Get the right players, that's your f'n job JBOT.  You were 6'3" and 225 pounds.  You didn't get drafted on your skill.  The game has changed but not that much.  The Lightning had scoring and speed and where did that get them last year.  Make me proud of this team Right *****1ng Now!  I'M A 50 YEAR CUSTOMER FFS..

Sorry for the rant.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Tondas

[Randall Flagg]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

Just to take this a bit further, I think what this should make clear is that chances are pretty good that the lineup choices being made are likely being made based on data that supports those choices.

Bad data? Bad interpretation? Bad philosophy underpinning the interpretation? Bad players?

All possibly factors, but I think the idea that the staff is oblivious to the type of data being thrown around by fans is highly unlikely. What is much more likely is that fans are oblivious to the data professional hockey teams are using.

Thanks for all this.

"We need our new GM to be great at analytics and I know who that person is and that ours aren't it" is something I was on board with until very recently, but things like this have provided a necessary dose of humility. Now I don't care what any candidate says about them and won't pretend I can make conclusions from what they do 

[Randall Flagg]

9 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

I feel like the decision was more about the inability to get high-end talent in order to fulfill Terry's fantasy of winning a Cup and then another one. He had Pittsburgh people around him and that inevitably led to a certain obsession with landing McDavid.

It's Labatt Blue-y.

You're likely correct that this was the reasoning of the only person or people that matter-the decision makers.

But I was raised by sabrespace, and I vividly remember the countless posts that helped shape my hockey worldview, and one lesson I took away more than all others  as a young buck - that core just didn't have the heart, the passion! I earnestly read, wide-eyed, and reported this fact to my friends the next morning in first period history, before the bell. That teacher, years later, let me bring in my guitar and jam with him during lunch. 

So I'll stand by the "main criticism" part 

[Billznut]

2 hours ago, Tondas said:

And after the games, all the popping sounds from people stomping on empty beer cups as you walked down the ramps.  And don't forget, the guys in the first row of the Golds chanting to Seymour.  I remember one game when the lights dimmed and they had to stop the game, then those guys yelled, "Hey, Seymour, pay the electric bill!"  Classic.

And I was a STH with seats in the top row of the Blues.  You couldn't see the scoreboard so they had TVs mounted that just showed the scoreboard so you knew what was going on.

Same here. My family had season tickets in the 2nd from top row of the Blues from 1978-1983. I remember the scoreboard tvs  and the confined feeling you had with the cement ceiling right above you. Especially in those top two rows of the Blues. Good times. Loved the Aud 

Edited March 9, 2020 by Billznut

[Randall Flagg]

Also, my dream job would be watching clipped games like that in a pro-scouting role so I can tell Jason to ask for someone's besides Vlad/Berglund 

[Tondas]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

 

I remember this one.  Classic battle of two very tough dudes that could also play the game.  

Dudley won and the blood was from Kelly's nose.  Schultz was in the their box looking at it. 

We still had Korab  (#4) left on the ice for the next fight.  

Loved the Aud --- the organist playing after the fight, the signs, the crowd, the smell ... Loved the Aud!!!!!

I'm a hockey dinosaur but you got to love when they're fighting and fall down, and then get back up to resume the pugilism.  Hockey players RULE!

[gilbert11]

Let’s see, Bills prior ownership went back and brought the ancient Marv Levy back as GM and that didn’t work.  This Sabres ownership went back in history and brought LaFontaine in as President and that didn’t work.  They brought back Ted Nolan and that didn’t work. 

Pegs hires McDermott and Beane from a successful Carolina franchise and that worked out well.  They then tried this with the Sabres hiring from the successful Pittsburgh Penguins and that didn’t work. 

I think this franchise is just jinxed.  No Goal!  The great Scotty Bowman took every other franchise he was coach/GM of to the Stanley Cup Finals, including the then expansion St Louis Blues, but couldn’t accomplish that with this franchise.

[Eleven]

2 hours ago, Tondas said:

all the popping sounds from people stomping on empty beer cups as you walked down the ramps

By the time I had finally perfected this skill, the Aud was on its way out.

[Tondas]

The Aud was great.   And had organ traditions.

1.  Sabres enter the ice to Sabre Dance.

2.  Opposing penalties we''re greeted with the theme from Dragnet.

3.  After a Sabres goal, the theme from the Lone Ranger.

4.  To get the crowd clapping, the Green Acres theme or the Adams Family theme.

I may be missing a few but I'm getting old.

 

 

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, Tondas said:

The Aud was great.   And had organ traditions.

1.  Sabres enter the ice to Sabre Dance.

2.  Opposing penalties we''re greeted with the theme from Dragnet.

3.  After a Sabres goal, the theme from the Lone Ranger.

4.  To get the crowd clapping, the Green Acres theme or the Adams Family theme.

I may be missing a few but I'm getting old.

Norm Wullen could work the crowd into a frenzy.  Along with the odd rink dimensions, funky boards, rattling glass, very cozy confines, ending home-and-home series at home, not to mention the team itself, the organist was part of the home ice advantage.  He kept the crowd engaged when the game sagged.  He often played "Halleluja" Chorus from Handel's "Messiah" on a Sabres' game-tying goal.  "Ooh!  Aah!  Sabres on the Warpath!" when the Sabres took the lead.  Just amazing.

[Crusader1969]

Does the addition of Kahun for maybe the 2 most worthless forwards on the team buy JB more time? 

At this point, I’m probably the only sabres fan that doesn’t want another change and wants to give him 1 more year  BUT he better improve the goaltenders 

[Zamboni]

12 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Does the addition of Kahun for maybe the 2 most worthless forwards on the team buy JB more time? 

At this point, I’m probably the only sabres fan that doesn’t want another change and wants to give him 1 more year  BUT he better improve the goaltenders 

I think Pegulas give JB this summer and a couple months into the next season. Minimum. After that he could be on a very short leash.

[LGR4GM]

13 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Does the addition of Kahun for maybe the 2 most worthless forwards on the team buy JB more time? 

At this point, I’m probably the only sabres fan that doesn’t want another change and wants to give him 1 more year  BUT he better improve the goaltenders 

Great another year of Botterill adding ***** forwards and telling us we are better. Fixing the GT might, and I mean might, get us in the playoffs but we aren't going anywhere once we get there with the complete lack of offense this team possesses because Botterill is actually ***** at adding useful offensive creating forwards. 

[LGR4GM]

I wouldn't let Botterill run another draft or another offseason. I have seen what he brings and it isn't enough. He overvalues defenders. He likes to play it safe with draft picks (low ceiling, high floor) and he can't evaluate forwards to save his job. He managed to find Kahun in the entire time he's been trading for guys. That's it. Skinner was obvious, everyone knew what he was. Olofsson was already here. In 3 years the only forward that Botterill has personally found and brought in is Kahun. Everyone else has been some level of JAG. Get ***** rid of him and bring in someone who is playing 4d chess, not still learning the rules for checkers. 

[Zamboni]

Anyone that can be grabbed out of Washington? 
 

Ross Mahoney? Was a scout for the Sabres and Canucks.

Chris Wagner?

Edited March 10, 2020 by Zamboni

[triumph_communes]

On 3/8/2020 at 1:06 PM, dudacek said:

This is a great article on coaching, specifically on how NHL coaches collect and assess data.

I pop it in here because it loosely dovetails with our discussion about Botterill’s comments on analytics and because I imagine most GMs and organizations have similar technology available and similar principles in place.

It opened my eyes how much more information teams have at their fingertips than we have when making calls on tactics or personnel and how much eye-rolling the professionals must do at some of the armchair criticisms out there. I think most of these guys are probably a lot more sophisticated than the general public gives them credit for.

https://theathletic.com/1660965/2020/03/07/bourne-sorting-one-offs-from-trends-a-daily-effort-for-coaches-and-media/
 

“The point is, the game — not just the highlights, but the actual game away from the goals — was clipped and sorted and organized. We brought a portable server with us everywhere we went, so within minutes of the final buzzer going, each coach had the game sorted appropriately to dig into immediately.

And, boy, wouldn’t you know it, if you watch each unique breakout throughout a hockey game — which might mean 30 to 40 of them — in succession, you get a pretty good sense for the real trends. You’re less likely to remember one egregious error, which I think is what gets glommed on to in the media, because you have the bigger sample right there at your disposal. Single events are less likely to influence your feeling of the bigger picture.

“All of this bloviating on how the game gets analyzed internally and externally brings me to a difficult question both parties have to answer on a near-daily basis, which is one fans should consider, too: How many times do you need to see something to fairly determine a trend? Because trends are worth acting on and worth having opinions about. If you’re a coach, you change your lines because of trends, you change your structure thbased on it. GMs change their personnel based on trends. You are what you repeatedly do, it is said, so if someone does something enough, it becomes worth acting on.”

Basically what article is saying is that NHL teams have multiple coaches well-versed in the game and equipped with expensive tech breaking things down with the same thorough attention to detail that we get from @Randall Flagg

Which makes the continued struggles of the Sabres even harder to understand.

Think back to all the quotes the players had about Housley and Bylsma.  They would go into extreme details about minute little aspects of the games-- and it either went way over the player's heads, or it screwed with their thought processes so much that they became paralyzed over-thinking instead of just playing hockey.

It's probably not the details being wrong getting the players down.  It's the combined message that's too hard to understand.  And a good head coach knows how to filter the analytics guys, etc. etc. into a message the players can actually comprehend while exerting themselves to their full physical extent to exhaustion for each 45 second stint they're on the ice.

This is why I've liked Krueger-- he knows simplifying the message and controlling the story is what's most important at the end of the day.  I don't trust his X and O guys (whoever is running the PP and hasn't changed it,   the team is still allergic to the front of the net while cycling low, which lets opposing defenders have too-easy of a job later), but at least the team is playing with an identity for once and losses come down to small instances of mistakes-- not total failures as they did seasons prior.

And at some point it really just is the players.  We had a lot of stupid players (Bogosian being the worst of them all).  The types of players Botterill has added lately seem to have improved the team's relative hockey IQ little by little.

Edited March 10, 2020 by triumph_communes

[Thorner]

On 3/10/2020 at 9:45 AM, LGR4GM said:

Great another year of Botterill adding ***** forwards and telling us we are better. Fixing the GT might, and I mean might, get us in the playoffs but we aren't going anywhere once we get there with the complete lack of offense this team possesses because Botterill is actually ***** at adding useful offensive creating forwards. 

The math doesn't even support this.

[Eleven]

I think we need a poll and it should include Liger and the Filet-o-FIsh.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Here is the Poll.

Option 1:  Jbot is keeping his job like or not.

Option 2: See option 1. 

Sorry.  If TP was dumping Jbot he'd have done it now with the season over instead of letting him sign new players for the organization. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[SwampD]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here is the Poll.

Option 1:  Jbot is keeping his job like or not.

Option 2: See option 1. 

Sorry.  If TP was dumping Jbot he'sd have done it now with the season over instead of letting him sign new players for the organization. 

No one is getting fired during the Wuhan.

HR wouldn't allow it.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, SwampD said:

No one is getting fired during the Wuhan.

HR wouldn't allow it.

 I don't think firing a GM would come under the heading of Wuhan HR issues.  If they can let go of their 716 staff, they can let go of Jbot if they choose.  It might not look good for PR, but if that was the plan, they'd probably let him know not to sign anyone.

[Marvin]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

The math doesn't even support this.

If Ullmark improves again and we get someone in the average-plus starter (13-16), it should get close.  Icing 4 real, honest-to-God NHL centres behind Eichel and 4 honest-to-God NHL lines behind Skinner-Eichel-Reinhart to boot would seal it.  (1 extra centre and 1 extra line each for injuries.)  The 5th line equivalent could be Asplund-Lazar-Vesey in this instance.

My beef is that JBottom thinks that this could be the 4th line with Mittlestadt-Cozens-Okposo as the 3rd line with Malone, Thompson, and Simmonds being next.

[Marvin]

10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here is the Poll.

Option 1:  Jbot is keeping his job like or not.

Option 2: See option 1. 

Sorry.  If TP was dumping Jbot he'sd have done it now with the season over instead of letting him sign new players for the organization. 

Yeah.  No signings would be happening if he weren't coming back.

Drat it.

[Eleven]

10 minutes ago, SwampD said:

No one is getting fired during the Wuhan.

HR wouldn't allow it.

That seems not to be an obstacle for this particular group.  There's a thread about it somewhere.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Eleven