Who is replacing Botterill? No, really ...

[Zamboni]

5 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said:

Yep.  And the team that was blown up was replaced with one pretty much just like it.

BTW:  Jason Botterill will be on with Schopp & Bulldog today, I think at 5:30pm.

I doubt they ask him anything challenging, but I'll be listening.

 

 

I won’t… Those two are insufferable. Very very poor radio personalities. And yet they’ve managed to keep their jobs for many years. Astounding.

and this may be the last interview JB does on WGR as a member of the Buffalo Sabres if some fans get their way. 

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Hextall was GM for 4 seasons in Philly, during which they made the playoffs twice and got bounced in the 1st round both times.

Ferguson was GM for 4 seasons in Toronto, during which they made the playoffs once and won one round.

No thank you.

Take a closer look at what he actually did for Philly and where they are now. He got a raw deal. Drafted extremely well, fixed the cap problem, they are set. His replacement inherited a golden ticket.

Ferguson because he is Boston's director of player personnel. I want that culture brought here. Do you not think people learn from past mistakes and grow? All the execs who come out of that Boston organization do well. 

At least you didn't say no thank you to Dudley on top of it all. 

If you noticed, my goal would be to change the culture and style of the organization. That to me is the key. 

[Brawndo]

Scratch Chris Drury off the list for those who wanted him. Friedman said on Saturday Night  Headlines that he and Jeff Groton both received contract extensions with the Rangers 

[WildCard]

11 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Scratch Chris Drury off the list for those who wanted him. Friedman said on Saturday Night  Headlines that he and Jeff Groton both received contract extensions with the Rangers 

*****

[Curt]

11 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Scratch Chris Drury off the list for those who wanted him. Friedman said on Saturday Night  Headlines that he and Jeff Groton both received contract extensions with the Rangers 

 

5 minutes ago, WildCard said:

*****

Isn’t it pretty standard for Assistant GMs to have outs in their contracts that allow them to take a higher level position (GM)?

Regardless, last time Sabres were interviewing for GM, Rangers/Drury declined to interview, I believe, so I would have been surprised if Drury emerged as a serious candidate anyway.

[LGR4GM]

Mike Gillis. Fire botterill now and bring in Gillis as president of hockey. If there's no money to hire analytics people, cut somewhere else and bring them in. You need at least 3. Professional, scouting, and team. 

https://theathletic.com/1570178/2020/01/30/qa-with-former-canucks-gm-mike-gillis-there-are-a-couple-of-things-i-would-have-done-entirely-differently?source=shared-article

" You mentioned analytics played a part in that decision. This would have been, what, 2008? I’m trying to get a time and place.

Gillis: We began to try and use a more scientific methodology to see who should be playing with one another and not based simply on observation and what might work. More in line with, what would actually complement particular players on the ice. What style of player? What did they bring to the table consistently? And thinking about places like where the puck gets turned over. How many times it gets turned over there in a game. What happens once the puck gets turned over there? Who can create that? Who can create that turnover for the other two players on that line? How do you fit together a defensive pairing that has the right puck-moving skills, the right speed but is defensively capable and reliable?

We began to try and look at numbers in different quadrants around the rink. Really trying to break down games into specifics as opposed to team play, which was left up to the coaches. We began to come up with some pretty consistent ideas about how to form lines, how to deploy players at certain times during the course of the game, how to put the percentages in our favor to score one more goal than the opposite. It worked out OK. "

Edited March 8, 2020 by LGR4GM

[Eleven]

To paraphrase another poster from long ago, they could replace him with the freaking Filet-O-Fish and I'd be fine with it.

[dudacek]

42 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Mike Gillis. Fire botterill now and bring in Gillis as president of hockey. If there's no money to hire analytics people, cut somewhere else and bring them in. You need at least 3. Professional, scouting, and team. 

https://theathletic.com/1570178/2020/01/30/qa-with-former-canucks-gm-mike-gillis-there-are-a-couple-of-things-i-would-have-done-entirely-differently?source=shared-article

" You mentioned analytics played a part in that decision. This would have been, what, 2008? I’m trying to get a time and place.

Gillis: We began to try and use a more scientific methodology to see who should be playing with one another and not based simply on observation and what might work. More in line with, what would actually complement particular players on the ice. What style of player? What did they bring to the table consistently? And thinking about places like where the puck gets turned over. How many times it gets turned over there in a game. What happens once the puck gets turned over there? Who can create that? Who can create that turnover for the other two players on that line? How do you fit together a defensive pairing that has the right puck-moving skills, the right speed but is defensively capable and reliable?

We began to try and look at numbers in different quadrants around the rink. Really trying to break down games into specifics as opposed to team play, which was left up to the coaches. We began to come up with some pretty consistent ideas about how to form lines, how to deploy players at certain times during the course of the game, how to put the percentages in our favor to score one more goal than the opposite. It worked out OK. "

Hmm...

That sounds like the strategy of a certain Sabres coach who has very particular preferences for his line construction and has been remarkably consistent in their utilization.

I wonder if Ralph operates on a similar principle and either the analytics and/or their interpretation are bad, or the players he has to choose from just aren’t good enough.

[bunomatic]

No more first timers. That includes Drury. When will Pegula ever learn ?

[LGR4GM]

It's easy to hire a gm. Ask every candidate 2 questions. Is ristolainen a good player and why? How should he be utilized?

[Zamboni]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It's easy to hire a gm. Ask every candidate 2 questions. Is ristolainen a good player and why? How should he be utilized?

Isn’t that more of a question(s) for a coach?

[dudacek]

This is a great article on coaching, specifically on how NHL coaches collect and assess data.

I pop it in here because it loosely dovetails with our discussion about Botterill’s comments on analytics and because I imagine most GMs and organizations have similar technology available and similar principles in place.

It opened my eyes how much more information teams have at their fingertips than we have when making calls on tactics or personnel and how much eye-rolling the professionals must do at some of the armchair criticisms out there. I think most of these guys are probably a lot more sophisticated than the general public gives them credit for.

https://theathletic.com/1660965/2020/03/07/bourne-sorting-one-offs-from-trends-a-daily-effort-for-coaches-and-media/
 

“The point is, the game — not just the highlights, but the actual game away from the goals — was clipped and sorted and organized. We brought a portable server with us everywhere we went, so within minutes of the final buzzer going, each coach had the game sorted appropriately to dig into immediately.

And, boy, wouldn’t you know it, if you watch each unique breakout throughout a hockey game — which might mean 30 to 40 of them — in succession, you get a pretty good sense for the real trends. You’re less likely to remember one egregious error, which I think is what gets glommed on to in the media, because you have the bigger sample right there at your disposal. Single events are less likely to influence your feeling of the bigger picture.

“All of this bloviating on how the game gets analyzed internally and externally brings me to a difficult question both parties have to answer on a near-daily basis, which is one fans should consider, too: How many times do you need to see something to fairly determine a trend? Because trends are worth acting on and worth having opinions about. If you’re a coach, you change your lines because of trends, you change your structure thbased on it. GMs change their personnel based on trends. You are what you repeatedly do, it is said, so if someone does something enough, it becomes worth acting on.”

Basically what article is saying is that NHL teams have multiple coaches well-versed in the game and equipped with expensive tech breaking things down with the same thorough attention to detail that we get from @Randall Flagg

Which makes the continued struggles of the Sabres even harder to understand.

Edited March 8, 2020 by dudacek

[dudacek]

Just to take this a bit further, I think what this should make clear is that chances are pretty good that the lineup choices being made are likely being made based on data that supports those choices.

Bad data? Bad interpretation? Bad philosophy underpinning the interpretation? Bad players?

All possibly factors, but I think the idea that the staff is oblivious to the type of data being thrown around by fans is highly unlikely. What is much more likely is that fans are oblivious to the data professional hockey teams are using.

[Stoner]

On 3/5/2020 at 4:03 PM, Randall Flagg said:

I'm pretty sure that was a main criticism of their last few years, and a driver of the decision to blow it all up 

I feel like the decision was more about the inability to get high-end talent in order to fulfill Terry's fantasy of winning a Cup and then another one. He had Pittsburgh people around him and that inevitably led to a certain obsession with landing McDavid.

2 hours ago, Eleven said:

To paraphrase another poster from long ago, they could replace him with the freaking Filet-O-Fish and I'd be fine with it.

It's Labatt Blue-y.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Just to take this a bit further, I think what this should make clear is that chances are pretty good that the lineup choices being made are likely being made based on data that supports those choices.

Bad data? Bad interpretation? Bad philosophy underpinning the interpretation? Bad players?

All possibly factors, but I think the idea that the staff is oblivious to the type of data being thrown around by fans is highly unlikely. What is much more likely is that fans are oblivious to the data professional hockey teams are using.

I agree with you that most decisions made by coaches/GMs likely have data to back them up.  The issue, I think, is that if you don’t approach a decision with critical thinking or if you are not placing value on the right things, then you are still going to make a lot of poor decisions.  Data can be found to back up almost any point of view.

For an overly simplistic example, if you place more value on Hits or Corsi than High Danger Scoring Chances or Expected Goals, then you are going to be targeting inferior players a lot of the time, but you still can say that you have data to back up your decisions.

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

I agree with you that most decisions made by coaches/GMs likely have data to back them up.  The issue, I think, is that if you don’t approach a decision with critical thinking or if you are not placing value on the right things, then you are still going to make a lot of poor decisions.  Data can be found to back up almost any point of view.

For an overly simplistic example, if you place more value on Hits or Corsi than High Danger Scoring Chances or Expected Goals, then you are going to be targeting inferior players a lot of the time, but you still can say that you have data to back up your decisions.

Thank you.

The oldest saw about analysis is, "if your assumptions are wrong, then it is likely that your conclusions will not be very good either."

IMHO, JBottom is here with his data analysis.  PSE may also need more and better minds involved in the data mining, machine learning, and statistical analysis process.  I have no idea how we could not competently fill in the bottom of the roster and not have 4 natural NHL centres on the roster 2 years in a row.

[Thorner]

4 hours ago, Curt said:

I agree with you that most decisions made by coaches/GMs likely have data to back them up.  The issue, I think, is that if you don’t approach a decision with critical thinking or if you are not placing value on the right things, then you are still going to make a lot of poor decisions.  Data can be found to back up almost any point of view.

For an overly simplistic example, if you place more value on Hits or Corsi than High Danger Scoring Chances or Expected Goals, then you are going to be targeting inferior players a lot of the time, but you still can say that you have data to back up your decisions.

This. If they are using data, it's wrong, or they are using it wrong. 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Thorny

[Brawndo]

Or Hockey Ops is asking for specific data which they believe justifies decisions they have made or will make. 

[Pimlach]

On 3/1/2020 at 1:25 AM, PerreaultForever said:

 

 

I remember this one.  Classic battle of two very tough dudes that could also play the game.  

Dudley won and the blood was from Kelly's nose.  Schultz was in the their box looking at it. 

We still had Korab  (#4) left on the ice for the next fight.  

Loved the Aud --- the organist playing after the fight, the signs, the crowd, the smell ... Loved the Aud!!!!!

Edited March 9, 2020 by Pimlach

[Kruppstahl]

22 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

 

I remember this one.  Classic battle of two very tough dudes that could also play the game.  

Dudley won and the blood was from Kelly's nose.  Schultz was in the their box looking at it. 

We still had Korab  (#4) left on the ice for the next fight.  

Loved the Aud --- the organist playing after the fight, the signs, the crowd, the smell ... Loved the Aud!!!!!

Hear!  Hear! 

I think everyone that remembers the Aud well, loved it.  

Big hits behind the net and the way the boards/glass would shake and roll like a wave was moving through them.  And the sound! 

That was a good scrap; Dudley could absolutely throw them and play hockey well to boot.  

Now we have Michael F-ing Frolik, who does neither.

 

 

 

[Tondas]

42 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said:

Hear!  Hear! 

I think everyone that remembers the Aud well, loved it.  

Big hits behind the net and the way the boards/glass would shake and roll like a wave was moving through them.  And the sound! 

That was a good scrap; Dudley could absolutely throw them and play hockey well to boot.  

Now we have Michael F-ing Frolik, who does neither.

And after the games, all the popping sounds from people stomping on empty beer cups as you walked down the ramps.  And don't forget, the guys in the first row of the Golds chanting to Seymour.  I remember one game when the lights dimmed and they had to stop the game, then those guys yelled, "Hey, Seymour, pay the electric bill!"  Classic.

And I was a STH with seats in the top row of the Blues.  You couldn't see the scoreboard so they had TVs mounted that just showed the scoreboard so you knew what was going on.

Edited March 9, 2020 by Tondas

[bunomatic]

2 minutes ago, Tondas said:

And after the games, all the popping sounds from people stomping on empty beer cups as you walked down the ramps.  And don't forget, the guys in the first row of the Golds chanting to Seymour.  I remember one game when the lights dimmed and they had to stop the game, then those guys yelled, "Hey, Seymour, pay the electric bill!"  Classic.

Damn I wish I could have experienced that old barn.

[Andrew Amerk]

32 minutes ago, Tondas said:

And after the games, all the popping sounds from people stomping on empty beer cups as you walked down the ramps.  And don't forget, the guys in the first row of the Golds chanting to Seymour.  I remember one game when the lights dimmed and they had to stop the game, then those guys yelled, "Hey, Seymour, pay the electric bill!"  Classic.

And I was a STH with seats in the top row of the Blues.  You couldn't see the scoreboard so they had TVs mounted that just showed the scoreboard so you knew what was going on.

You had to push down one side of the bottom of the cup just a little bit before stomping on it. 

I was taught that trick as a kid at Amerks games. 

[Tondas]

12 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

You had to push down one side of the bottom of the cup just a little bit before stomping on it. 

I was taught that trick as a kid at Amerks games. 

This qualifies for the Things That Are Awesome thread..

[OverPowerYou]

Bring in Lindy Ruff as GM. Anyone?