Rumor: About Botterill’s Future Being in Doubt

[sabremike]

1 minute ago, triumph_communes said:

Is there a salary cap there?

Ask the Jets and NYCFC how quick and easy it is to get an arena built in the NY Metro area (and the Barclays Center literally took a decade to come to fruition).

[triumph_communes]

1 minute ago, sabremike said:

Ask the Jets and NYCFC how quick and easy it is to get an arena built in the NY Metro area (and the Barclays Center literally took a decade to come to fruition).

Would you say they have the BEST construction crew in the entire world?

[nfreeman]

26 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Is there a salary cap there?

The existence of the salary cap helps, not hinders, the Sabres.

[Pimlach]

11 hours ago, #freejame said:

If JBotts gives fourth liners three year deals I won’t be watching next season. It stunts development of young players and it’s poor contract management. 

I agree.  The sad thing is the fourth line is the second best line on this team and has been since the ROR trade.  
 

My trust in JBot is ZERO. 

[TrueBlueGED]

13 hours ago, Weave said:

I really don't udnerstand the criticism for the deadline day moves.  We got Simmonds for a next to nothing draft pick and moved two guys that noone saw as having a future on the team for a guy that does have a future on the team.

Jbott's had plenty of opportunity, but deadline day 2020 isn't an example of it.

I don't think anyone should really care in a vacuum because the cost was so low, but I also don't think it's a huge leap to look at Simmonds as another example of poor pro player evaluation. Botterill thought enough of him that he was worth acquiring and putting us into a cap overage that faces penalty on next season's cap. It's not a big deal, but the cumulative evidence suggests we're likely to see more bad players brought in going forward, and Simmonds only adds to the evidence. 

[triumph_communes]

18 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

The existence of the salary cap helps, not hinders, the Sabres.

Wrong

[Doohicksie]

22 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Jeez, I hope not. Terry could make the decision right now. Should make it now? The final games don't matter. That homestand was all you really need to know.

It's what he used last time he cleaned house.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, triumph_communes said:

Wrong

Say no more, I’m convinced.

[sabresparaavida]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Say no more, I’m convinced.

I think I would tend to agree. I think Pegula has enough money and cares enough that he would be willing to spend more than most teams, which may have gotten us out of this losing slump by now.

[Doohicksie]

3 hours ago, sabremike said:

Ask the Jets and NYCFC how quick and easy it is to get an arena built in the NY Metro area (and the Barclays Center literally took a decade to come to fruition).

Just for the heck of it I looked up the new Texas Rangers stadium details:  Announced 4 years ago, architect hired 3 years ago, opening this month.  Just a data point.

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I agree.  The sad thing is the fourth line is the second best line on this team and has been since the ROR trade.  
 

My trust in JBot is ZERO. 

Considering their contributions to scoring lately, maybe they've become the third line.

[matter2003]

I don't buy it...Botterill has not been acting like a person trying to save his job, he has been acting like a person who knows he is being given time to implement his plan. Whether it works or not is a different question.

[inkman]

3 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Would you say they have the BEST construction crew in the entire world?

Faaaahghetaboutit

[triumph_communes]

Beane shed all bad contracts in one year and only had to pay for it one year. Botterill has none of those options and still managed to clear a ton of cap for the fourth season. The cap puts rebuilds from bad contract situations and cancerous locker rooms (yes we had one, remember Reinhart sitting on the bench for an entire game lololol?  Party boys left and right). Both GMs inherited absolute messes. Both have done a great job shedding ‘top talent with attitude’ that may or may have not succeeded elsewhere, but have transformed their own locker room into believers in the process. 
 

Oh, we also have a billionaire owner who isn’t shrewd. Remember when we had an internal cap, back when the cap was half of what it is now?  The contract structuring that made UFA for Buffalo even a consideration?  Before you digress, the ROR bonus was a personal thing. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by triumph_communes

[jad1]

10 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Beane shed all bad contracts in one year and only had to pay for it one year. Botterill has none of those options and still managed to clear a ton of cap for the fourth season. The cap puts rebuilds from bad contract situations and cancerous locker rooms (yes we had one, remember Reinhart sitting on the bench for an entire game lololol?  Party boys left and right). Both GMs inherited absolute messes. Both have done a great job shedding ‘top talent with attitude’ that may or may have not succeeded elsewhere, but have transformed their own locker room into believers in the process. 
 

Oh, we also have a billionaire owner who isn’t shrewd. Remember when we had an internal cap, back when the cap was half of what it is now?  The contract structuring that made UFA for Buffalo even a consideration?  Before you digress, the ROR bonus was a personal thing. 

Beane also brought in a whole lot of talent to make his contract purge work.  White, Emmunds, Milano, Singletary, Brown, Poyer, Hyde, and the list goes on.  The locker room has improved, but the talent on the field has also improved.

 Botterill hasn't been able to bring enough talent in to support his rebuild, and much of that is on him and the mistakes he made.  Sobotka, Frolik, Vesey, Johansson, Huttton, Scandella, and even Skinner have been acquisitions that have hurt the rebuild.  Needing a Mittelstadt reboot hasn't helped, but these are all Botterill moves that have impacted the team's progress more than any contracts Botterill inherited.

The bottom line is that Botterill's poor decisions are responsible for the team's current standing.

[triumph_communes]

15 minutes ago, jad1 said:

Beane also brought in a whole lot of talent to make his contract purge work.  White, Emmunds, Milano, Singletary, Brown, Poyer, Hyde, and the list goes on.  The locker room has improved, but the talent on the field has also improved.

 Botterill hasn't been able to bring enough talent in to support his rebuild, and much of that is on him and the mistakes he made.  Sobotka, Frolik, Vesey, Johansson, Huttton, Scandella, and even Skinner have been acquisitions that have hurt the rebuild.  Needing a Mittelstadt reboot hasn't helped, but these are all Botterill moves that have impacted the team's progress more than any contracts Botterill inherited.

The bottom line is that Botterill's poor decisions are responsible for the team's current standing.

NFL draft picks are immediate players and roster turnover year to year is easy

 

Good NHL teams barely turn over 4 players per season. Botterill has been turning over >12 players per season, and even then, that wasn’t enough to keep rookies out of the roster.

[Kruppstahl]

2 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

NFL draft picks are immediate players and roster turnover year to year is easy

 

Good NHL teams barely turn over 4 players per season. Botterill has been turning over >12 players per season, and even then, that wasn’t enough to keep rookies out of the roster.

And not to go too far off topic, but look at the number of NFL draftees that step into the league and make an impact either immediately or after a year or maybe 2.  Lots of good athletes throughout the draft.  And top picks almost always have a given level of skill.  Like speed.  If you don't have it, you don't play in the NFL, period.

The NHL is not like that.  Even low 1st round picks often prove to be duds, deeper round picks are almost worthless, and even very top level picks often have fairly major flaws in their game, like not enough speed, or not a very good skater in general.

Pretty much ALL NHL draftees should be fast and great skaters, that's why they are in the NHL.  There are too many slots to fill with not enough bodies, and not enough people playing hockey in the world.  That's my conclusion.

 

 

[Brawndo]

3 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

 

Good NHL teams barely turn over 4 players per season. Botterill has been turning over >12 players per season, and even then, that wasn’t enough to keep rookies out of the roster.

Given the fact he needs to keep doing this going into this 4th Season doesn’t that demonstrate he isn’t very good at forward evaluation? 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, sabresparaavida said:

I think I would tend to agree. I think Pegula has enough money and cares enough that he would be willing to spend more than most teams, which may have gotten us out of this losing slump by now.

I was being completely sarcastic.  I know Pegula has money, but I doubt he is willing to blindly dump his own money into the Sabres to the point that he isn’t making a profit.  I haven’t seen a lot of examples of him doing so in the areas he is allowed to.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Curt

[apuszczalowski]

4 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said:

I don't think anyone should really care in a vacuum because the cost was so low, but I also don't think it's a huge leap to look at Simmonds as another example of poor pro player evaluation. Botterill thought enough of him that he was worth acquiring and putting us into a cap overage that faces penalty on next season's cap. It's not a big deal, but the cumulative evidence suggests we're likely to see more bad players brought in going forward, and Simmonds only adds to the evidence. 

I think Simmonds was brought in not for what he could produce on the ice, but for a solid veteran lockeroom presence to help be a leader in the lockeroom for the younger guys. If Botts picked him up expecting him to do anything on the ice, he should have been walked out the door by 4pm that day......

[triumph_communes]

52 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Given the fact he needs to keep doing this going into this 4th Season doesn’t that demonstrate he isn’t very good at forward evaluation? 

I think it’s a great example of what cap hell is and why you can’t just instantly fix your team in the next draft and UFA like you can in football. Go back the last three years and find me one UFA signing that makes a big difference in the results the last two years. And don’t say Donskoi he was offered more money and turned it down 

[triumph_communes]

1 hour ago, Kruppstahl said:

And not to go too far off topic, but look at the number of NFL draftees that step into the league and make an impact either immediately or after a year or maybe 2.  Lots of good athletes throughout the draft.  And top picks almost always have a given level of skill.  Like speed.  If you don't have it, you don't play in the NFL, period.

The NHL is not like that.  Even low 1st round picks often prove to be duds, deeper round picks are almost worthless, and even very top level picks often have fairly major flaws in their game, like not enough speed, or not a very good skater in general.

Pretty much ALL NHL draftees should be fast and great skaters, that's why they are in the NHL.  There are too many slots to fill with not enough bodies, and not enough people playing hockey in the world.  That's my conclusion.

 

 

botterills focus has always been depth first, NHL roster second.  And he chose to bolster defense first, which again is a strategy most everybody agrees is the right order. And with at least strength in one area (defense) the team can build an identity. 
 

Fans are just impatient and blaming the wrong guy. Our lack of draft picks filling in holes is Murray’s problem still. Only beginning next year can you begin to blame Botterill if they’re not working out. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by triumph_communes

[freester]

4 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

botterills focus has always been depth first, NHL roster second.  And he chose to bolster defense first, which again is a strategy most everybody agrees is the right order. And with at least strength in one area (defense) the team can build an identity. 
 

Fans are just impatient and blaming the wrong guy. Our lack of draft picks filling in holes is Murray’s problem still. Only beginning next year can you begin to blame Botterill if they’re not working out. 

I think you are the sole remaining Botteril apologist. The most important positions are Center and Goalie and he has failed miserably in addressing those positions. He is excellent at acquiring overpaid 4th line players though.  He can’t be fired soon enough. 

[triumph_communes]

6 minutes ago, freester said:

I think you are the sole remaining Botteril apologist. The most important positions are Center and Goalie and he has failed miserably in addressing those positions. He is excellent at acquiring overpaid 4th line players though.  He can’t be fired soon enough. 

Rofl, ask this board five years ago what’s important and top pairing defenseman were the answer. You’re grasping at straws. Ullmark is fine, he literally got injured. Not many teams survive losing starting goaltenders. Hutton stole us games last year, hindsight is pretty hilarious when used like in the quote. His collapse has been epic, but it’s not like we don’t have 6K in the ranks. We have the elusive franchise 1C. Blame Murray for missing on Reinhart being number two. We have no problem with bottom six centers. Again, blowing the situation out of proportion. Mittelstadt and Cozens are in the ranks for center and just like 99% of NHL prospects, need a few years before you can even expect them to contribute. 

[LGR4GM]

38 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

botterills focus has always been depth first, NHL roster second.  And he chose to bolster defense first, which again is a strategy most everybody agrees is the right order. And with at least strength in one area (defense) the team can build an identity. 
 

Fans are just impatient and blaming the wrong guy. Our lack of draft picks filling in holes is Murray’s problem still. Only beginning next year can you begin to blame Botterill if they’re not working out. 

I got bad news for you when it comes to drafting forwards outside of the 1st round. 

[sabremike]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I got bad news for you when it comes to drafting forwards outside of the 1st round. 

When you get the chance to draft a defenseman with no offensive ability whatsoever whose a non entity on a mediocre college team over one of the best goal scorers in all of junior hockey who is carrying a team that should've finished dead last into the playoffs YOU DO IT.