Rumor: About Botterill’s Future Being in Doubt

[Gatorman0519]

His reason for his latest two trades died before the weekend was over. He is constantly one step behind.   Maybe the new kid can be resigned and may have potential as a middle six winger.  But the big issue is ROR's shoes still need to be filled albeit two seasons too late now.  The maddening search for the 2C goes on. I have no faith.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

My thought on the deadline is JBot does feel his job is hanging by a thread and so he desperately tried to make us more competitive now rather than selling off to improve the team in the future/longer term. Grasping at straws.

I still remember the TSN guys on deadline day proclaiming Buffalo the big loser on the day and as one of them (forget which one) shook his head and said "I don't know what the heck is going on there." 

JBot's had long enough. We need some sort of big change to give us any glimmer of hope for the future. Cozens by himself just isn't enough. 

I really don't udnerstand the criticism for the deadline day moves.  We got Simmonds for a next to nothing draft pick and moved two guys that noone saw as having a future on the team for a guy that does have a future on the team.

Jbott's had plenty of opportunity, but deadline day 2020 isn't an example of it.

[Tondas]

5 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

I'm curious why you say that.  There is a contingent among Sabres fans right now that believes the same.

Where does this come from?  Is this related to the theory that this season has gone "according to plan" and the real plan kicks in this summer?  Botterill has gotten so much wrong, and so very little right, there is a damning mountain of evidence in support of his termination.

I have no idea how Pegula could retain him any longer.  Not sure why he still has a job now, to be honest.

 

I get it Krupp, but I think Terry would rather go another season with JBOT than to start all over again, which he has no idea  on how to do.  He'll say patience and continuity is the right course, salary cap is better, RFK deserves another year, good prospects, etc.  It buys Terry another year.  I just don't think he wants to be bothered with another transition.  Is it the right path, who knows.  But it's easiest for Terry.

[Curt]

56 minutes ago, Weave said:

I really don't udnerstand the criticism for the deadline day moves.  We got Simmonds for a next to nothing draft pick and moved two guys that noone saw as having a future on the team for a guy that does have a future on the team.

Jbott's had plenty of opportunity, but deadline day 2020 isn't an example of it.

This is my exact view as well.  The Simmonds move was almost nothing.  The Kahun trade was a move for the future.

I do wish he had moved a couple more UFAs though.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Curt

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

I really don't udnerstand the criticism for the deadline day moves.  We got Simmonds for a next to nothing draft pick and moved two guys that noone saw as having a future on the team for a guy that does have a future on the team.

Jbott's had plenty of opportunity, but deadline day 2020 isn't an example of it.

The criticism of the deadline deals is we bought instead of sold. Teams closer to making it made future oriented moves and we did not. Kahun for ERod and Sheary I guess counts as future oriented and might be an upgrade (even if so far he looks pretty one dimensional and is possibly a defensive liability) but right now we stand to lose a bunch of UFAs and have nothing to show for it.

Teams were looking to load up on depth/role players so surely we could have gotten something for Vesey, Girgensens, Larsson - and still signed them back next year if we wanted to. The  "meaningful games" idea was meaningless rhetoric. 

[pi2000]

48 minutes ago, Curt said:

This is my exact view as well.  The Simmonds move was almost nothing.  The Kahun trade was a move for the future.

I do wish he had moved a couple more UFAs though.

Probably couldn't get enough in return for the UFAs to make it worthwhile.

He has over $30mil in cap space this summer, I'm convinced he has a spending plan and TP is on board.    Next year is the year that real progress has to be made or it's curtains for JBOT.

[Scottysabres]

38 minutes ago, Curt said:

This is my exact view as well.  The Simmonds move was almost nothing.  The Kahun trade was a move for the future.

I do wish he had moved a couple more UFAs though.

If deadline day rumors were true, they were close to landing another move for the future in Josh Anderson, RW out of Columbus.

So yes, I to can see why the deadline day moves were made.

If you look at the roster, what is there for next season in any event, we see the following:

Olofsson RFA, he'll need a contract.

Reinhart RFA, he'll need a contract.

I don't see those 2 getting moved.

Curtis Lazar RFA, do we sign him? I think we do.

Dominik Kahun RFA, you just know we're re-signing this guy.

I believe those 2 guys get signed.

The Girgenson, Larsson, Okposo line, may be some decisions here. But Girg's and Larsson are going to want raises. Okposo has 3 years left on his deal, could we see Z and Larry signed for 3 each to keep the line together to the end? I think it's possible. But they'll be here next year most likely.

Then you have Vesey, Frolik and Simmonds. I don't see Frolik or Simmonds back next year. Vesey is my only question mark. 

Jack and Skinner of course, so let's tally it up in a forward line layout.

Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart

Skinner - ? - ?

Johansson -? - ?

Girgs - Larsson - Okposo

Just a guess so far, but I didn't include Vesey, I don't think we see him back to be honest, but, I could be wrong.

So let's go on the premise of what I posted here, where do we get it? Cozens and Mitts coming up for line 2 and 3 center? Something tells me that's a bad idea. And what about RW'er's?

Where are the assets to move to get these components?

So many questions. I don't currently see next season doing much, if any better, than this season, as of now. Of course, that is always subject to change based on the moving parts yet to play out.

 

[PerreaultForever]

So you're suggesting we re-sign most everybody and look almost exactly the same as this year? Yup, that'll work. 

[Mustache of God]

As much as I'd like to see JBOT canned, i think his long term plan was to treat this off-season as the overhaul since we have so many contracts set to come off the books (Hunwick, Sobotka, Bogo,  Frolin/Scandella) similar to what Beane did with the bills in McDermott's second season. I think this was the "vision" he sold the to Pegulas which is why he's got such a long leash.

However, the lack of improvement is disturbing. Mostly all of the forward talent he's brought in have been small swings and big misses (Vesey, Frolik, every non-draft pick piece of the ROR trade, Sheary, Skinner looks bad and that contract is going to hurt in a few years, the Reinhart bridge was mistake IMHO). 

His defensive philosophy was also a head-scratcher. I've never seen a team have to dress 7 D and 11 F, which I believe caused unnecessary tension in the room and never let the D get comfortable with their roles. 

I think he gets one more off-season for the sake of continuity and being able to start to work in his draft picks to build his "vision" as most of middling players he's brought in have been "placeholders", but he certainly doesn't deserve it.

My guess is he gets fired in 10-11 months when we're in the same place next year, outside of the playoff picture, but not too far off, just need to string together a few wins and we collapse just like we are doing now.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Mustache of God

[Scottysabres]

Just now, PerreaultForever said:

So you're suggesting we re-sign most everybody and look almost exactly the same as this year? Yup, that'll work. 

I'm not suggesting it, I'm thinking that is what they plan to do. I don't see the assets to make anything outside of a significant acquisition via trade and a minor one. I don't see them letting Larry and Z walking. 

[#freejame]

If JBotts gives fourth liners three year deals I won’t be watching next season. It stunts development of young players and it’s poor contract management. 

[kas23]

54 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

The criticism of the deadline deals is we bought instead of sold. Teams closer to making it made future oriented moves and we did not. Kahun for ERod and Sheary I guess counts as future oriented and might be an upgrade (even if so far he looks pretty one dimensional and is possibly a defensive liability) but right now we stand to lose a bunch of UFAs and have nothing to show for it.

Teams were looking to load up on depth/role players so surely we could have gotten something for Vesey, Girgensens, Larsson - and still signed them back next year if we wanted to. The  "meaningful games" idea was meaningless rhetoric. 

The UFAs we stand to lose for nothing are nothing special. They can stay or leave and nobody would care or notice. Obviously, NHL GMs felt the same way. Besides, it would’ve sent the wrong message to a near-playoff bubble team to throw in the towel. If the Sabres had won against the Avs and the dogs, we’d all be saying something completely different. 

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, Mustache of God said:

His defensive philosophy was also a head-scratcher. I've never seen a team have to dress 7 D and 11 F, which I believe caused unnecessary tension in the room and never let the D get comfortable with their roles.

Peter Laviolette likes the 11F-7D allocation, but he is decidedly the exception.  Based on how often he switched to 12F-6D when possible, I don't think RK prefers it, but was stuck with it because of JNot's roster construction.

[JohnRobertEichel]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

So you're suggesting we re-sign most everybody and look almost exactly the same as this year? Yup, that'll work. 

 

If we magically find a second line winger and a second line center, this could work:

Olofsson - Eichel - Reinhart

Skinner - ??? - ???

Girgensons - Larsson - Okposo

Kahun - Johansson - Lazar

AHL/minors/first call-ups: Mittelstadt, Cozens, Thompson, Asplund

[LTS]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

So you're suggesting we re-sign most everybody and look almost exactly the same as this year? Yup, that'll work. 

This team is not fundamentally flawed any longer. In that situation, the exchange of 2-3 players can go a long way to taking that next step and improving the team. Having played hockey I am surprised you have not experienced this.  You cut off the bottom and add to the middle and top and get stronger.

Of course the question will be.. are the deals available and do UFAs want to sign here.  If a UFA doesn't want to sign here then you have to ask, is it the GM or the owner/franchise? If it's not the GM, then it does no good to complain about the GM.

I would suspect that the D gets a sleight overhaul with 2 being moved out in trades.

The telling sign?  Do Larsson and Girgensons get offers and do they sign here?  It's their choice and if they don't then it tells you something about where they see the team.  They will get offers on the market, there's no doubt.

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

I'm not suggesting it, I'm thinking that is what they plan to do. I don't see the assets to make anything outside of a significant acquisition via trade and a minor one. I don't see them letting Larry and Z walking. 

You're probably right, and thus:

3 hours ago, #freejame said:

If JBotts gives fourth liners three year deals I won’t be watching next season. It stunts development of young players and it’s poor contract management. 

I will likely not be watching either. Certainly not every game with a TV package for sure. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, kas23 said:

The UFAs we stand to lose for nothing are nothing special. They can stay or leave and nobody would care or notice. Obviously, NHL GMs felt the same way. Besides, it would’ve sent the wrong message to a near-playoff bubble team to throw in the towel. If the Sabres had won against the Avs and the dogs, we’d all be saying something completely different. 

The head scratching and reactions from the TSN bunch are in regards to this notion that we were a "near playoff bubble team."  Teams with better shots than us dumped some UFAs (or signed them). We were never a near bubble team, we were a long shot at best so getting a 3rd for Vesey or something like that wouldn't change our chances and helps our future. 

33 minutes ago, LTS said:

This team is not fundamentally flawed any longer.

This is a matter of opinion. 

[Brawndo]

There were three long term contracts on the books when Botterill got here, Bogosian, Risto and Okposo. The rest of the salary cap is on him. 

The team he has assembled each of the past three seasons has had the lowest expected goals stats in the NHL. They have 4 players who are capable of scoring goals on a consistent basis on the team, of which Skinner is the only one he acquired. 

Keeping any of the UFAs outside of Larsson isn’t a good idea in my opinion. 

Outside of Cozens, the prospect pool which he has built is average at best, not a great track record figuring how high they have drafted. 

This organization is at a crossroads this summer and the consequences of messing it up, could and will be disastrous.

If there is any doubt in the Pegulas Minds about Botterill’s Abilities, he needs to be fired at the end of the year. 

The cap space, the lack of a signed roster and the building blocks in place with Eichel and Dahlin should make this an  attractive job.

In terms of the Pagnotta Report, it’s entirely possible that the team has put up feelers through agents/other team representatives that the Buffalo GM Position may be open to gauge interest. It’s possible the word got out this way. 

[Hank]

11 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

I'm curious why you say that.  There is a contingent among Sabres fans right now that believes the same.

Where does this come from?  Is this related to the theory that this season has gone "according to plan" and the real plan kicks in this summer?  Botterill has gotten so much wrong, and so very little right, there is a damning mountain of evidence in support of his termination.

I have no idea how Pegula could retain him any longer.  Not sure why he still has a job now, to be honest.

 

You didn't ask me specifically, by I'm one of " contingent among Sabres fans right now that believes the same", so I'll answer. Not for the poster you posted the question to or anyone else, just me. 

The first year was an evaluation year, a throwaway. After that season was the ROR fiasco. If you want to rehash that I will, but please find the appropriate thread and let's do it there, I'm sure many don't want to read it here. Either way, losing ROR, pushed our compete window a couple years. If ROR was on the team this year we're probably a playoff team.  He gets a pass from me regarding ROR and he probably does from pegula too 

The D was garbage two years ago and is playoff caliber now. When the kids mature in a couple years it should be damn good. Now he can focus on forwards and has some cap to work with.

Goals for hate gone up the last two years. 

Goula against have gone down the last two years. 

Points have gone up the last two years. That's really the only thing that matters, despite the fancy stats and pretty charts. 

JKru isn't going anywhere. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

The D was garbage two years ago and is playoff caliber now.

How is this in any way even remotely true????

[triumph_communes]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

How is this in any way even remotely true????

Remember when we spent years crying: we need a too4 defenseman but nobody ever trades one!  Risto is playing too many minutes he needs to be a second pairing guy!

 

Now we have arguably 4-5 top 4 guys. McCabe is a solid third pairing now. Montour is forced playing offhand because of the depth. And we have Pilut, Borgen, two first rounders and some other wild cards like Laaksonen in the system. When we lose a defenseman in the expansion draft (and we will), we already have a replacement in order.  I believe Ristolainen is gone before next season, and we won’t miss a beat paying that UFA contract he will want. 
 

It’s very true. And Joki and Dahlin are still kids and the sky is the limit for both of them still. 
 

Have tour gripes and pretend Rome can be built in 2 years all you want, but our defensive depth is now SOLID. Great way to build from the back out, the way it always should have been. 

[nucci]

7 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Remember when we spent years crying: we need a too4 defenseman but nobody ever trades one!  Risto is playing too many minutes he needs to be a second pairing guy!

 

Now we have arguably 4-5 top 4 guys. McCabe is a solid third pairing now. Montour is forced playing offhand because of the depth. And we have Pilut, Borgen, two first rounders and some other wild cards like Laaksonen in the system. When we lose a defenseman in the expansion draft (and we will), we already have a replacement in order.  I believe Ristolainen is gone before next season, and we won’t miss a beat paying that UFA contract he will want. 
 

It’s very true. And Joki and Dahlin are still kids and the sky is the limit for both of them still. 
 

Have tour gripes and pretend Rome can be built in 2 years all you want, but our defensive depth is now SOLID. Great way to build from the back out, the way it always should have been. 

we still don't have a goalie

[nfreeman]

6 hours ago, Brawndo said:

There were three long term contracts on the books when Botterill got here, Bogosian, Risto and Okposo. The rest of the salary cap is on him. 

The team he has assembled each of the past three seasons has had the lowest expected goals stats in the NHL. They have 4 players who are capable of scoring goals on a consistent basis on the team, of which Skinner is the only one he acquired. 

Keeping any of the UFAs outside of Larsson isn’t a good idea in my opinion. 

Outside of Cozens, the prospect pool which he has built is average at best, not a great track record figuring how high they have drafted. 

This organization is at a crossroads this summer and the consequences of messing it up, could and will be disastrous.

If there is any doubt in the Pegulas Minds about Botterill’s Abilities, he needs to be fired at the end of the year. 

The cap space, the lack of a signed roster and the building blocks in place with Eichel and Dahlin should make this an  attractive job.

In terms of the Pagnotta Report, it’s entirely possible that the team has put up feelers through agents/other team representatives that the Buffalo GM Position may be open to gauge interest. It’s possible the word got out this way. 

I agree with all of this, but I think JB also inherited Moulson’s bad contract in addition to the 3 you mentioned.  Minor clarification.  

[sabremike]

2 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Remember when we spent years crying: we need a too4 defenseman but nobody ever trades one!  Risto is playing too many minutes he needs to be a second pairing guy!

 

Now we have arguably 4-5 top 4 guys. McCabe is a solid third pairing now. Montour is forced playing offhand because of the depth. And we have Pilut, Borgen, two first rounders and some other wild cards like Laaksonen in the system. When we lose a defenseman in the expansion draft (and we will), we already have a replacement in order.  I believe Ristolainen is gone before next season, and we won’t miss a beat paying that UFA contract he will want. 
 

It’s very true. And Joki and Dahlin are still kids and the sky is the limit for both of them still. 
 

Have tour gripes and pretend Rome can be built in 2 years all you want, but our defensive depth is now SOLID. Great way to build from the back out, the way it always should have been. 

Oh you want to do a building analogy? Here's one: The Islanders will have submitted a plan for an arena, have it approved, begun construction and will open it (October 2021) before Botts puts together a team capable of playing meaningful games in March much less make the playoffs.

[triumph_communes]

2 minutes ago, sabremike said:

Oh you want to do a building analogy? Here's one: The Islanders will have submitted a plan for an arena, have it approved, begun construction and will open it (October 2021) before Botts puts together a team capable of playing meaningful games in March much less make the playoffs.

Is there a salary cap there?