Rumor: About Botterill’s Future Being in Doubt

[Claude Balls]

Kramer thinks he's legit.

 

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

The STH’s aren’t going to (to any large degree) drop their plans. Fantasy land to think they will. Good grief.... 

 

I bet 10-15% do, and those 10-15% will quickly and gladly get snatched up by new STHers. 

 

Was there anything stopping those new STHers from buying them before this season?

32 minutes ago, Claude Balls said:

Kramer thinks he's legit.

 

Who dat?

[Doohicksie]

19 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Does he have any real sources?

Sounds like just stirring the pot.

[Gatorman0519]

When he got completely fleeced in the ROR deal and then picked a Center who couldn't do a pull up and thought he could take over the 2C duties, that was an error of maximum ineptitude.  Not to mention the other moves or lack thereof. There is potential a proficient GM could of taken the same scenario and we would be a playoff team by this year.  

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, sabremike said:

The Fantasy Island is the idea that there are thousands of people waiting to buy ST's for this team. Unless you are blind you can see the thousands of empty seats at most games.

Wait.... didn't Fantasy Island close?

[Indabuff]

22 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Wait.... didn't Fantasy Island close?

That was the one on Grand Island.

This is the one at 1 Seymour H Knox III Plaza.  It's still open but it's getting run into the ground. 

[Scottysabres]

9 minutes ago, Indabuff said:

That was the one on Grand Island.

This is the one at 1 Seymour H Knox III Plaza.  It's still open but it's getting run into the ground. 

Same owners?

Asking for a friend....

[Sabre fan]

Kinda think that this organization has re-booted far too many times for them to actually try and bring in yet another new GM (or coach as most new GM's will want their own coach).

Still think a big problem stems from giving away or losing good talent and getting basically nothing in return. The beginning of the end seemed to start way back when we lost both Briere and Drury to free agency when we should have traded them, at the deadline and got something of significance in return (remember both were highly coveted and in big demand;hence they both signed big contracts at free agency). 

Fast forward a few years and GMTM is giving away far too much for far too little, but then he does make two significant moves to bring in two really good players in EK and ROR.   For all of Ex GMTM's fails, these two guys should have given us some reason to rejoice and feel we are on the right track to something (anything?).

Then we juice GMTM and bring in the "can't fail" JBotto, who immediately takes it upon himself to get rid of both EK and ROR for basically nothing. JBotto traded his two big fish for a bunch of little fish-fry that in the end amount to just bottom feeders and leaving one good line and 3 lines of 3rd or 4th liners. Getting Kahun for two of those 3rd and 4th liners was a good move, but we need that elusive 2nd center and 2nd winger to play with Skinner (although I still cannot figure out how we continue to waste a 9 million player on the 2nd line with a bunch of nobody's). When he gave away EK and ROR he gave away his best chances at getting a 2nd line center in a hockey trade.  They don;t grow on trees and just about every team is in search for one of those at some point.

I fear we will be right where we are now next season too.   OMG I cannot take another season of this...

[Indabuff]

28 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Same owners?

Asking for a friend....

Let me check my source...

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, Sabre fan said:

Kinda think that this organization has re-booted far too many times for them to actually try and bring in yet another new GM (or coach as most new GM's will want their own coach).

Still think a big problem stems from giving away or losing good talent and getting basically nothing in return. The beginning of the end seemed to start way back when we lost both Briere and Drury to free agency when we should have traded them, at the deadline and got something of significance in return (remember both were highly coveted and in big demand;hence they both signed big contracts at free agency). 

Fast forward a few years and GMTM is giving away far too much for far too little, but then he does make two significant moves to bring in two really good players in EK and ROR.   For all of Ex GMTM's fails, these two guys should have given us some reason to rejoice and feel we are on the right track to something (anything?).

Then we juice GMTM and bring in the "can't fail" JBotto, who immediately takes it upon himself to get rid of both EK and ROR for basically nothing. JBotto traded his two big fish for a bunch of little fish-fry that in the end amount to just bottom feeders and leaving one good line and 3 lines of 3rd or 4th liners. Getting Kahun for two of those 3rd and 4th liners was a good move, but we need that elusive 2nd center and 2nd winger to play with Skinner (although I still cannot figure out how we continue to waste a 9 million player on the 2nd line with a bunch of nobody's). When he gave away EK and ROR he gave away his best chances at getting a 2nd line center in a hockey trade.  They don;t grow on trees and just about every team is in search for one of those at some point.

I fear we will be right where we are now next season too.   OMG I cannot take another season of this...

Sorry, couldn't get past your 3rd sentence.  You advocated trading away the 2 best centers on the team when they were on a run that had them finish with the top record in the league?

Wow.

[Radar]

17 minutes ago, Sabre fan said:

Kinda think that this organization has re-booted far too many times for them to actually try and bring in yet another new GM (or coach as most new GM's will want their own coach).

Still think a big problem stems from giving away or losing good talent and getting basically nothing in return. The beginning of the end seemed to start way back when we lost both Briere and Drury to free agency when we should have traded them, at the deadline and got something of significance in return (remember both were highly coveted and in big demand;hence they both signed big contracts at free agency). 

Fast forward a few years and GMTM is giving away far too much for far too little, but then he does make two significant moves to bring in two really good players in EK and ROR.   For all of Ex GMTM's fails, these two guys should have given us some reason to rejoice and feel we are on the right track to something (anything?).

Then we juice GMTM and bring in the "can't fail" JBotto, who immediately takes it upon himself to get rid of both EK and ROR for basically nothing. JBotto traded his two big fish for a bunch of little fish-fry that in the end amount to just bottom feeders and leaving one good line and 3 lines of 3rd or 4th liners. Getting Kahun for two of those 3rd and 4th liners was a good move, but we need that elusive 2nd center and 2nd winger to play with Skinner (although I still cannot figure out how we continue to waste a 9 million player on the 2nd line with a bunch of nobody's). When he gave away EK and ROR he gave away his best chances at getting a 2nd line center in a hockey trade.  They don;t grow on trees and just about every team is in search for one of those at some point.

I fear we will be right where we are now next season too.   OMG I cannot take another season of this...

I agree with your assessment on how we got to where we are. I also agree with your assessment of the past GM blunders. The bright spot is we have a core of good to excellent players. If we can add one  number two center (that won't come cheap even if there's one available) and another top six wing we are two thirds there. The other third? Upgrade our goaltending. It's doable even in one year but it's difficult. Can the current GM do it? He has ,in my opinion, one off season to it or he's probably exGM.

[Radar]

11 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Sorry, couldn't get past your 3rd sentence.  You advocated trading away the 2 best centers on the team when they were on a run that had them finish with the top record in the league?

Wow.

Trading one possibly but I think money crunch caused them to go in FA. Brier or Drury should have been signed or traded. My memory is there was no way of keeping both.

 

[Claude Balls]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Was there anything stopping those new STHers from buying them before this season?

Who dat?

No clue, lol

[Sabre fan]

12 minutes ago, Radar said:

Trading one possibly but I think money crunch caused them to go in FA. Brier or Drury should have been signed or traded. My memory is there was no way of keeping both.

 

Yeah you had to trade at least one...and you are right money was the issue. But both shoul dhad been somehow signed (or one signed and the other traded).

[Huckleberry]

nah not happening, if the team sucks in november he'll be fired.

[North Buffalo]

Botts is not bad, yeh OReilly mistake... not sure if his hand was forced?  But he really needs a 2C and another scoring forward.... if draft high enough then maybe a starter next year plus Cozens... again who knows.

[Zamboni]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Was there anything stopping those new STHers from buying them before this season?

Yes. There is an actual cap of the amount of season tickets available. Its somewhere in the 15,500 neighborhood. It’s been maxed out for several years. Hence there is, (and I called a few months ago to verify, unlike some fans who just want to assume or guess) a waiting list. And it’s around 1,600 deep. Every year most of those on the list are offered tickets. But not all take them for mostly financial reasons or location of seats reasons. I’m sure some don’t take the offer also because the team has been poor. But those who don’t purchase season tickets are offered to stay on the list for next season. 
 

so as much as it would be a cute idea to think that a ton of season-ticket holder’s would cancel their tickets… It’s just not the case year after year after year that just doesn’t happen if you do cancel, then those few are snatched right up by those that are on the waiting list. As much as it might infuriate some people, that’s just the way it goes year after year after year.

ive been a STH for 16 years. And I ask questions and inquire about various things quite often, including but not limited to seat availability, waiting lists etc ...

and actual attendance of individual games has little to do with season tickets sold, or waiting lists. Two different points really. A good chunk of STH’s either can’t sell or even give away their tickets, and they don’t want to be bothered going to games that are most likely gonna end up in a poor performance or worse. So they “eat” those tickets. Hence the poor attendance a lot of games. Those 15,500 tickets (or more) are still sold.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Zamboni

[Sabre fan]

so I get the impression that just because there are empty seats at many home games these days, those seats are still PAID for just empty? I would also assume that empty seats at say Florida are NOT PAID FOR and just not sold? makes one wonder how Florida can keep a team...

[triumph_communes]

Murray’s accelerated tank was the problem. He missed on everything. Left us with zero depth and zero prospects. Can’t fix that in a day. Removing Botterill is a huge mistake. 

[dudacek]

25 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Murray’s accelerated tank was the problem. He missed on everything. Left us with Ryan O’Reilly, Evander Kane, Jack Eichel, Sam Reinhart, Robin Lehner, Rasmus Ristolainen, Johan Larsson, Zemgus Girgensons, Kyle OKposo and Victor Olofsson. Should have been able to fill out the rest of that roster in three years. Hiring Botterill has been a huge whiff. 

Or this.

Edited February 29, 2020 by dudacek

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, Sabre fan said:

so I get the impression that just because there are empty seats at many home games these days, those seats are still PAID for just empty? I would also assume that empty seats at say Florida are NOT PAID FOR and just not sold? makes one wonder how Florida can keep a team...

Yes, a lot of those seats are paid for and there’s no rear end in those seats. Actual “walk up” sales to games (when you see a lot of empty seats) are probably in the 100-200 range. It’s putrid.

As far as Florida, I don’t know the amount of season ticket holders without calling their account services dept. but I would guess it’s 7 - 9,000. Again, putrid. And I don’t know how the owners can afford that much of a hit either. And it’s been bad for a long long time.

[triumph_communes]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Or this.

Three players with serious drinking problems that didn’t get fixed until they left Buffalo and the wonderful culture they had developed

 

 Two 2OA gimmes (well Reinhart was a BIG miss relatively speaking) and one 7th rounder. THAT was the source of today’s woes. 

[dudacek]

20 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Three players with serious drinking problems that didn’t get fixed until they left Buffalo and the wonderful culture they had developed

 

 Two 2OA gimmes (well Reinhart was a BIG miss relatively speaking) and one 7th rounder. THAT was the source of today’s woes. 

Another person who only judges Botterill in terms of Murray?

The players that were moved returned Steve Montour.
The leftovers remain the best players on the Sabres.

What building blocks has Botterill added in his three period years?

Edited March 1, 2020 by dudacek

[triumph_communes]

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Another person who only judges Botterill in terms o pa MUrray?

The players that were moved returned Steve Montour.
The leftovers remain the best players on the Sabres.

What building blocks has Botterill added in his three period years?

Defensive depth that makes the Amerks play defense at forward. 

Cap freedom starting next season

A handful of forward prospects that aren’t total busts

[dudacek]

27 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Defensive depth that makes the Amerks play defense at forward. 

Cap freedom starting next season

A handful of forward prospects that aren’t total busts

?

Well, now that you put it that way...