Rumor: About Botterill’s Future Being in Doubt

[dudacek]

4 hours ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

Maybe Casey Mittelstadt just isn't very good.

Responsibility for drafting and developing him is entirely on Jason Botterill.

[triumph_communes]

6 hours ago, nfreeman said:

No.  Frolik was a bad move for an unproductive mediocrity with a big cap hit who has not, despite your claims to the contrary, improved the PK and that has resulted in loss of cap space next season.

 

 

What?  Frolik is UFA. Are you trying to say bonus overages?  Those will be under a million if they hit..

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, triumph_communes said:

What?  Frolik is UFA. Are you trying to say bonus overages?  Those will be under a million if they hit..

Where did you see u der a million?

The amount hasn’t been made clear anywhere I’ve seen, but Botterill acknowledged that the deadline trades meant we would be paying an overage penalty on next year’s cap. If he had not made the Frolik trade, this would not be the case. 

ELC contracts are eligible for bonuses of up to about $2.5million. Dahlin, Jokiharju and Kahun are players that might be earning them.

[triumph_communes]

Just now, dudacek said:

Where did you see u der a million?

The amount hasn’t been made clear anywhere I’ve seen, but Botterill acknowledged that the deadline trades meant we would be paying an overage penalty on next year’s cap. If he had not made the Frolik trade, this would not be the case. 

ELC contracts are eligible for bonuses of up to about $2.5million. Dahlin, Jokiharju and Kahun are players that might be earning them.

Blame Simmonds not Frolik. Christ. This whole board was about to burn him at the stake over Christmas because he didn’t make a Frolik type trade early enough and now hindsight is forgetting all of that phase. 

[dudacek]

21 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Blame Simmonds not Frolik. Christ. This whole board was about to burn him at the stake over Christmas because he didn’t make a Frolik type trade early enough and now hindsight is forgetting all of that phase. 

We took about a $2 million cap hit for Frolik - half a season at full salary. Simmonds I think is well under $1 million, Jersey retained half his salary and it was only for 1/4 season.

And hindsight is forgetting nothing. The board wanted a legitimate NHLer, at least a middle six type player, preferably better. Jason acquired a guy who looks done - a 13th forward  who has yet to score on a goalie, has become our spare forward, and may not even be in the NHL next year.

Id give him the benefit of the doubt, but he’s acquired at least a half-dozen other forwards who fit a similar profile over his tenure.

It’s pro sports. You don’t get points for trying.

Edited March 11, 2020 by dudacek

[Pimlach]

14 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Okie isn't going anywhere.  I don't lose Vesey for the sake of losing Vesey; he's turning into a decent player.  But I happily sacrifice him for an upgrade.

Okie can go with with the right deal.  You compensate a team for taking the salary.   Seattle might be a place to look. 
 

Vessey is not a good player AND if you get an upgrade for him how is that a sacrifice?  That is a gain which is what our GM should be doing on every trade.  
 

Every year GMs make trades to improve their teams.  Even Darcy picked up Drury and Briere.  

we are so used to mediocrity (or less) that we expect it.  

 

[nfreeman]

58 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Blame Simmonds not Frolik. Christ. This whole board was about to burn him at the stake over Christmas because he didn’t make a Frolik type trade early enough and now hindsight is forgetting all of that phase. 

No.

The board was PO'd at JB over xmas, and now is officially ready to dump him, because most of the forwards he's brought in are Frolik types -- overpaid, ineffective mediocrities.

He needs to be right on these moves, and he's accountable for the results on the ice and in the standings.  That's his job.  Anyone here could've spent to the cap, gotten a bunch of moves wrong and not improved the team in 3 years relative to his predecessor, which is looking like the outcome of JB's tenure.

[dudacek]

A good GM does two things: creates a balanced, rounded roster on the ice, and manages and grows his assets in a manner that means that roster is sustainable.

Basically, asset management is about taking your pile of beans and making it bigger. Making one of your own draft picks does not expand your pile. Turning those picks into players whose value exceeds that of the pick itself does; adding extra picks does; acquiring good players does;  signing players to good contracts does;

Assuming we don’t re-sign our UFAs and ignoring AHLers and draft picks past the 3rd round, this is what Jason has done to our asset pool

Out:              In:
O’Reilly        Skinner

Kane            Montour

Nylander      Jokiharju

Foligno        Miller

Ennis           Johansson

Girgensons  Kahun

Larsson        Lazar

Carrier          Thompson

Lehner          Hutton

Rodrigues    Pilut

Deslauriers  Ruotsalanien

Moulson.     Elie

Bogosian     Dea

Guhle            Ryan Johnson   

2nd               $36 million to resign Montour, Olofsson, Reinhart, Kahun, Thompson, Mittelstadt, Pilut, Ullmark, UFAs.

2 3rds           

Fedun

Edited March 11, 2020 by dudacek

[Broken Ankles]

For those keeping score at home, we have Triumph and GA as defense attorneys for the defendant.  Everyone else as prosecutors.  Amirite?  

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Vessey is not a good player AND if you get an upgrade for him how is that a sacrifice?

Vesey has been one of the successes of Ralph's system.  He's played at several levels and learned all the roles from Jack's wingman to checking two-way forward to driver of offensive rushes.  The difference between his play now and early in the season is like night and day.  There are better players out there but I don't think we want to abandon Vesey until we have that upgrade on the roster.  If nothing else he's a decent placeholder who can play Ralph's system.  If, say, Gus or Larry goes elsewhere in free agency, Vesey could slide into that line.

However if the management is shaken up I think Vesey would be unlikely to return.

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Every year GMs make trades to improve their teams.  Even Darcy picked up Drury and Briere.

I'm optimistic that Kahun could be the new Briere.  Early results are promising.

[dudacek]

7 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

.

I'm optimistic that Kahun could be the new Briere.  Early results are promising.

Did you know that in two seasons in OHL, four in the German elite league, and two in the NHL, Kahun has never topped 13 goals?

[Doohicksie]

You'd never know it to watch him play.  And even if he doesn't score that much, we need that kind of hustle on this team.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Where did you see u der a million?

The amount hasn’t been made clear anywhere I’ve seen, but Botterill acknowledged that the deadline trades meant we would be paying an overage penalty on next year’s cap. If he had not made the Frolik trade, this would not be the case. 

ELC contracts are eligible for bonuses of up to about $2.5million. Dahlin, Jokiharju and Kahun are players that might be earning them.

Unless Olofsson's agent is a moron, he earned $212k with that goal against the Caps.

And FWIW, Thompson breaking himself from not knowing how to take a hit in his only game in B&G this season doesn't just hurt his development / the team's evaluation of him; but now that the team seems to be under the cap (discounting bonuses), his NHL salary sitting in the trainers room will cost them about $250k next year covering this year's ELC bonuses.

And, can anybody please point out what bonus Kohun might qualify for?  Afaict, he doesn't come close to qualifying in any category.

[triumph_communes]

6 hours ago, dudacek said:

Did you know that in two seasons in OHL, four in the German elite league, and two in the NHL, Kahun has never topped 13 goals?

Yet he’s about to in the NHL.  Some players just get shafted by coaches

[LGR4GM]

10 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Blame Simmonds not Frolik. Christ. This whole board was about to burn him at the stake over Christmas because he didn’t make a Frolik type trade early enough and now hindsight is forgetting all of that phase. 

This is a blatant lie. This board wanted a top 6 forward, preferably center to help bolster secondary scoring. They did not want a 30+ winger with bad numbers in all offensive generation categories. Simmonds is just more of the same and not what will actually improve this team. Just like Sobtka before him, Frolik was and is a stupid acquisition. 

1 hour ago, triumph_communes said:

Yet he’s about to in the NHL.  Some players just get shafted by coaches

So you don't care that with Buffalo Kahun is shooting at 25% something that the best goal scorers in the league do not do? He is going to regress. The question is to where and how will he score over a full season with that regression. Will he make up for the regression with more quality chances?

[triumph_communes]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So you don't care that with Buffalo Kahun is shooting at 25% something that the best goal scorers in the league do not do? He is going to regress. The question is to where and how will he score over a full season with that regression. Will he make up for the regression with more quality chances?

All I care about is the increased amount of line chemistry and sustained possession I’ve seen with him on the ice with our other semi skilled players like Johansson. Goals don’t have to be off of his stick. 
 

And with more chemistry and more minutes played he will get more shot chances and that will make up for your inevitable drop in shooting percentage. Please stop trying to make everything a single statistic. 

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

All I care about is the increased amount of line chemistry and sustained possession I’ve seen with him on the ice with our other semi skilled players like Johansson. Goals don’t have to be off of his stick. 
 

And with more chemistry and more minutes played he will get more shot chances and that will make up for your inevitable drop in shooting percentage. Please stop trying to make everything a single statistic. 

You love a strawmen. I was discussing your point about him scoring goals. I referenced multiple types of statistics. Scoring chances, sh%. As we weren't talking about anything other than his goals, I confined my answer. So again, I wasn't doing what you're claiming but responding to what you said. 

I don't care about possession. I care about chance generation. Will Kahun continue to do that? That's the question because his sh% will regress.

Edited March 11, 2020 by LGR4GM
Clarifying

[Brawndo]

Ryan Johnson, LHD, 6-foot (Buffalo Sabres/University of Minnesota)
Actual draft pick: No. 31
My final ranking: No. 59

The Golden Gophers’s seven-man blue line was a little crowded this year, making it tough on Johnson to separate himself from the pack as the go-to guy, particularly once fellow freshman Jackson LaCombe (Ducks) outplayed him, and the concerns I had with him as a late-first round pick were reinforced throughout the year. Johnson is a smooth, heady defender who plays an efficient, calculated game. But he doesn’t have a dynamic quality to any of his skills and he’s not a long defender so even if he progresses well across the board and becomes a solid two-way defender, he’s not going to be a huge special teams guy. It was a bit weird pick and then he followed it up with an OK year. I suspect he spends a full four years in college and that the end result is an NHL regular but not one who moves the needle.

 

This is from Scott Wheeler’s 2019 Draft Article about risers and fallers.

Johnson was a faller.

Three risers Shane Pinto, Arthur Kaliyev (both selected immediately after Johnson) by Ottawa and LA the prospect who is out performing his draft position the most is Liger Favorite Nic Robertson. 

 

[WildCard]

He has 8pts in 37gp this season so far and is a -9

Sweeeeeeet

[Brawndo]

2 minutes ago, WildCard said:

He has 8pts in 37gp this season so far and is a -9

Sweeeeeeet

He is being asked to play his offside on the right, but still. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

Johnson was a faller.

Three risers Shane Pinto, Arthur Kaliyev (both selected immediately after Johnson) by Ottawa and LA the prospect who is out performing his draft position the most is Liger Favorite Nic Robertson. 

 

 

[triumph_communes]

We don't need another PP qb defenseman.  That's on lock-down for a decade.  Just a reliable defender.

[pi2000]

I've seen a few Minnesota games in person this season, and IMO Ryan Johnson is, at best, another Henri Jokiharju.   

[dudacek]

10 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

I've seen a few Minnesota games in person this season, and IMO Ryan Johnson is, at best, another Henri Jokiharju.   

Pretty sure that is what this regime likes and what they were going for when they made the pick.

[Carmel Corn]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Pretty sure that is what this regime likes and what they were going for when they made the pick.

Which is a good reason to replace the regime with new management that targets different kind of prospect talent.