Solving the 2C Problem

[WildCard]

Just now, bob_sauve28 said:

For what? Winning the cup? 

Upgrade the goaltending and we are a playoff team, imo 

We're a fringe playoff team if we had decent goaltending. We still can't score for *****, and who knows how good other teams will get. Relying on better goaltending only next year is a terrible way to enter the season

[Hank]

4 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Would you have said the same thing the day he was hired, if someone told you "yeah, they'll probably be able to compete for a playoff spot in Jason's fifth year, maybe" ? 

The idea that next year being a wash to wait for his third first round selection to possibly be 2C shows that you're just liking Botterill to like Botterill, rather than seriously examining his work 

Not true at all. Don't want to rehash it but I give him a pass on ROR. That trade pushed the window to compete a couple years. The D is much improved and I'm happy with the drafts. 

[bob_sauve28]

8 minutes ago, WildCard said:

We're a fringe playoff team if we had decent goaltending. We still can't score for *****, and who knows how good other teams will get. Relying on better goaltending only next year is a terrible way to enter the season

No doubt, you can never have enough scoring. Hopefully Skinner will come back and help there. I just think the number one priority should be a goaltender. Yes, get more scoring depth for sure, too. 

[Eleven]

22 minutes ago, WildCard said:

We're a fringe playoff team if we had decent goaltending. We still can't score for *****, and who knows how good other teams will get. Relying on better goaltending only next year is a terrible way to enter the season

But it also gives Cozens--and perhaps Mittlestadt--time to develop while not trading away assets for dream 2Cs.  

I suppose UFAs are a possibility, but I think it's going to cost a lot to get Granlund or Gagner here and I'm not sure that's worth it, either.

[WildCard]

2 minutes ago, Eleven said:

But it also gives Cozens--and perhaps Mittlestadt--time to develop while not trading away assets for dream 2Cs.  

I suppose UFAs are a possibility, but I think it's going to cost a lot to get Granlund or Gagner here and I'm not sure that's worth it, either.

And it throws away another year of Eichel and Reinharts' primes without getting them some playoff experience and further plunges the state of this franchise into shame and apathy.

We 100% need to make the playoffs next year

[Eleven]

2 minutes ago, WildCard said:

And it throws away another year of Eichel and Reinharts' primes without getting them some playoff experience and further plunges the state of this franchise into shame and apathy.

We 100% need to make the playoffs next year

They'll make the playoffs next year simply with better goaltending.  They won't win the Cup next year simply with better goaltending.

[WildCard]

8 minutes ago, Eleven said:

They'll make the playoffs next year simply with better goaltending.  They won't win the Cup next year simply with better goaltending.

We don't know that though and there's no reason to take that chance. With better goaltending this season, where Toronto is having injuries and a bad year, and so is Florida, we'd still be a fringe playoff team. Hoping for better goaltending alone next year, even if we go out and get a better goalie, is a recipe for disappointment

[Eleven]

2 minutes ago, WildCard said:

We don't know that though and there's no reason to take that chance. With better goaltending this season, where Toronto is having injuries and a bad year, and so is Florida, we'd still be a fringe playoff team. Hoping for better goaltending alone next year, even if we go out and get a better goalie, is a recipe for disappointment

I know it.  And if you look deep inside your Charlie heart, you find that know it too.

[WildCard]

Just now, Eleven said:

I know it.  And if you look deep inside your Charlie heart, you find that know it too.

There's only ghouls in there

[stuuuuuuuuu]

Eric Staal - Next year is the last on his deal.  Low commitment stopgap for the 2c spot.  Minnesota is in flux and Guerin did not sign him to that deal.  Botts and Billy G also have history working together.  I could see Skinner, Staal and Mojo working well under heavy offensive usage

Edited February 26, 2020 by Stu

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

I think we wait for Cozens to grow into the 2C role, and I'm good with that. 

I’d much rather invest in a youngish vet to allow Cozens (or Mitts) to develop into that role then force him into it before he’s ready.  My hope is that we get a guy under a reasonable contract that can play a reasonable 2C and then slide to 3C when Cozens/Mitts are ready. 

1 hour ago, WildCard said:

That likely throws away next season though

If Hutton had just played to Ullmark’s level we’d be a playoff team this season despite the unbalanced forward group.  However to truly compete well in the playoffs we need more goaltending and a real 2C.  Waiting for Cozens to develop into that role does not get where we need to go next season.

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

One internal option that we could try right now (and has been tried on a very limited basis):  Larsson.  He's a decent, not great center, but if he worked consistently with Skinner they could possibly develop some chemistry.  Slide Lazar into Larsson's role on the checking line. 

Larsson just isn’t a good enough passer to ignite Skinner’s offense

[Sabre fan]

while I am still not convinced JBotto will a real bonifide 2nd center I wonder if we go another way and improve goaltending by say going after a experienced proven goalie such as Quick in LA or even Fleury now that Vegas traded for Lehner for some unknown reason. Last time we were any good we had a #1 in RM...  

Edited February 26, 2020 by Sabre fan

[Taro T]

There are no LEGIT internal candidates for 2C at present.  There are no UFA C's to fill that void properly either.  They HAVE to trade for 1 and realistically, he will cost one of Ristolainen, Montour, or Miller; one of Mittelstadt, Cozens, or Thompson;  a lottery protected 1st or a 2nd; and a 2nd or a mid-level prospect (a CJ Smith type).  How painful letting each of those pieces go will be will come down to how good of a C they get back.  If it's a Henrique type, then it should be the lowest valued of each of those assets from column A, B, C, & D.  If it's a Cirelli type, then it'll be painful and it'll be the top end option from at least 3 of those 4 menus.

Really don't want to give that much up, but don't see throwing away next season as an option.  And though that'll be a pricy buy, they really don't have to go shopping for an expensive asset from other teams for at least 2, if not 3, more seasons.  (Assuming they don't desperately need a goalie upgrade after bringing a FA upgrade this off-season, but every year guys become available, so even if they are desperate, they shouldn't need to go the Bobrovsky route.)

Sign a FA goaltender to go with that 2C they traded for and they're good to go.

 

 

[LGR4GM]

I'd trade Montour, Mitts, and a 2nd for Cirelli right now. 

[WildCard]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I'd trade Montour, Mitts, and a 2nd for Cirelli right now. 

Easily. Almost too easily.

People keep saying Tampa is screwed on the cap. I looked the other day and I didn't think they were really in that big of a bind. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by WildCard

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Easily. Almost too easily

I'd trade Risto, Mitts, a 2nd and CJ Smith for Cirelli right now. 

[WildCard]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

I'd trade Risto, Mitts, a 2nd and CJ Smith for Cirelli right now. 

Hurts more, but I'd still do it pretty easily. Change that 2nd to a 1st and drop Smith, do you still do it?

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I'd trade Montour, Mitts, and a 2nd for Cirelli right now. 

But Cirelli is likely going to cost Ristolainen/Montour, Cozens, the lottery protected 1st, & Smith or possibly Asplund.

Still interested?

[GASabresIUFAN]

Cirelli isn’t going to be traded.  They will get two of Palat, Gourde, Johnson and Killorn to waive their NTCs.  Johnson and Gourde have seem their PT drop to 14 minutes a night.  Those guys may want a bigger opportunity elsewhere.  Would Johnson waive his NTC to come to Buffalo? Not sure, but that scenario is much more likely then TB trading Cirelli to us.

[nfreeman]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Cirelli isn’t going to be traded.  They will get two of Palat, Gourde, Johnson and Killorn to waive their NTCs.  Johnson and Gourde have seem their PT drop to 14 minutes a night.  Those guys may want a bigger opportunity elsewhere.  Would Johnson waive his NTC to come to Buffalo? Not sure, but that scenario is much more likely then TB trading Cirelli to us.

I agree -- they will figure out a way to offload one of their expensive vets and keep Cirelli.

I also think there is NFW that JB trades Cozens this summer under any circumstances.

[GASabresIUFAN]

11 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I agree -- they will figure out a way to offload one of their expensive vets and keep Cirelli.

I also think there is NFW that JB trades Cozens this summer under any circumstances.

Cozens and UPL are the 2 prospects that are clearly off limits.  
 

I would consider an offer to TB for both Palat (28, 2 years left at 5.3) and Johnson (29, 4 years left at 5). They just dumped 2 1st picks to get Coleman and Goodrow, my guess is they’ll accept a package of a D with term such as Miller plus picks and prospects for them.  Also Johnson’s deal and lesser production this season probably drives down his value.

lineup 

VO Jack Reinhart

Skinner Johnson Palat

MoJo Cozens Kahun

Girgensons Larsson KO

Lazar

Dahlin Jokiharju

Risto McCabe

Montour Pilut

Ullmark Johansson?

Edited February 26, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[Eleven]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Is Kahun the internal candidate?

Although he plays mostly wing here. He was an effective center in Germany. 

He is a youngish forward with only 2 seasons on NA experience but had 37 pts as a rookie and is on pace for a similar number this season.

Doesn't look like it, unless there's a lot of work done:

 

This is from Vogl:

 

 

·

1h

 

Dominik Kahun says after playing wing for two NHL seasons, it would take time to get used to playing center. But he’d be fine trying if needed at some point. He played with Ralph Krueger’s son over in Germany, so Ralph knows Kahun’s skill set down middle.

[nfreeman]

17 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I would consider an offer to TB for both Palat (28, 2 years left at 5.3) and Johnson (29, 4 years left at 5). They just dumped 2 1st picks to get Coleman and Goodrow, my guess is they’ll accept a package of a D with term such as Miller plus picks and prospects for them.  Also Johnson’s deal and lesser production this season probably drives down his value.

Well, Palat is a LW, and Tyler Johnson, although a C, is 5'8", expensive, in decline and turns 30 this summer.

It also seems pretty unlikely that either would waive a NTC to leave Florida and come to Buffalo.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

Doesn't look like it, unless there's a lot of work done:

 

This is from Vogl:

 

 

·

1h

 

Dominik Kahun says after playing wing for two NHL seasons, it would take time to get used to playing center. But he’d be fine trying if needed at some point. He played with Ralph Krueger’s son over in Germany, so Ralph knows Kahun’s skill set down middle.

I was wondering what the connection to RK was.  Kahun after he was traded to us said RK knew him well but I couldn’t figure out the connection.  Thanks.

 

[WildCard]

If you want a bridge to Cozens/Mitts, Johnson for 2-3 years would be pretty great