Taylor Leier Signed to One Year NHL Deal by Sabres

[Curt]

8 minutes ago, nucci said:

for low round draft picks? 

For as much as you can get.  If you don’t plan on resigning them, why not?

[Ross Rhea]

33 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Raise your hand if you thought that a Taylor Leier thread in February would be labeled "Hot."

?‍♀️ lol

[7+6=13]

12 minutes ago, Curt said:

For as much as you can get.  If you don’t plan on resigning them, why not?

Because at some point you have to show the players you plan on keeping that putting the best product on the ice for them the remaining 23 games - matters more than, eh get what you can.  

[Doohicksie]

7 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

Because at some point you have to show the players you plan on keeping that putting the best product on the ice for them the remaining 23 games - matters more than, eh get what you can.  

Depends on what you get back.  If it's a fire sale because you're out of the playoff race, fine.  But if you have a fire sale while still in the hunt, yeah, you've got a point.  Do we expect a deep playoff run this year?  No.  But if they have a shot at making the playoffs, do you cut them off at the knees to move Vesey or Sheary for a 4th round pick in 2023?

[Curt]

8 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

Because at some point you have to show the players you plan on keeping that putting the best product on the ice for them the remaining 23 games - matters more than, eh get what you can.  

You put together the best team possible in the summer.  In February, when you are out of the playoffs and you have UFA’s who aren’t coming back, acquiring assets for them is the best thing you can do for your team.

[7+6=13]

43 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Depends on what you get back.  If it's a fire sale because you're out of the playoff race, fine.  But if you have a fire sale while still in the hunt, yeah, you've got a point.  Do we expect a deep playoff run this year?  No.  But if they have a shot at making the playoffs, do you cut them off at the knees to move Vesey or Sheary for a 4th round pick in 2023?

My reply was based on "low round draft picks".  So in that case, IMO, it's not worth making the team even slightly worse.  

45 minutes ago, Curt said:

You put together the best team possible in the summer.  In February, when you are out of the playoffs and you have UFA’s who aren’t coming back, acquiring assets for them is the best thing you can do for your team.

That's the fundamental difference between our opinions.  I don't think 4th round picks to make the team worse is the best thing you can do for the team.  

I completely understand value in trading, so long as the return is at least reasonable to help the team in the future.  

[shrader]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

Leier will stay in Rochester, but needs to clear waivers first 

That's also the answer to the earlier question.  Signing him did not require waivers, but it is needed to assign him to Rochester now that he has signed. 

My initial thought was that they signed him so that he could be retained via qualifying offer at the end of the year.  But looking at capfriendly, he's a UFA at the end of the year, so that's out.  So I'd expect some shuffling around the roster in the upcoming week.  They have plenty of space in terms of the 50 contract max, so why not.

[inkman]

2 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Larsson missing from the morning skate, per Joe Yerdon on Twitter. Any chance these 2 events are connected?

 

2 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

Larsson would be a good acquisition for any team need a defensive center for a playoff run. He's good against Tavares, against McDavid, against Crosby. He can be playoff angry. And.... if coveted.... could get a good rental return.

 

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

I’ve always wanted to see Angry Larry in the playoffs. Of course, I’ve always wanted that to be in blue and gold.

Whoever gets him will get value. I hope Jason gets equal value in return.

Also, Risto/Larsson/futures for Cirelli/bad contract, anyone?

 

2 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Yerdon posted, Hutton and Larsson maintenance days. Will be with team in Ottawa, Frolik still Ill.

Setlle down Bevis's. 

[Eleven]

35 minutes ago, shrader said:

That's also the answer to the earlier question.  Signing him did not require waivers, but it is needed to assign him to Rochester now that he has signed. 

My initial thought was that they signed him so that he could be retained via qualifying offer at the end of the year.  But looking at capfriendly, he's a UFA at the end of the year, so that's out.  So I'd expect some shuffling around the roster in the upcoming week.  They have plenty of space in terms of the 50 contract max, so why not.

Why does he need to clear waivers to stay right where he has been?  I don't know this CBA as well as the last one.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, 7+6=13 said:

That's the fundamental difference between our opinions.  I don't think 4th round picks to make the team worse is the best thing you can do for the team.  

I completely understand value in trading, so long as the return is at least reasonable to help the team in the future.  

3rd round pick?  2nd round pick?

I know we sometimes think about 3rd/4th round picks a throwaways, but they do have some value.  As trade currency just as much as actual draft selections.

Next year when the team is actually fighting for a playoff spot, a 3rd/4th could be useful to add a depth piece around the deadline.  Like Montreal just did with Scandella.

[DarthEbriate]

9 minutes ago, inkman said:

Setlle down Bevis's. 

Concentrate!

https://giphy.com/gifs/mrw-popcorn-tin-SleotgmotWahW

[Taro T]

12 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Why does he need to clear waivers to stay right where he has been?  I don't know this CBA as well as the last one.

Because he never cleared waivers prior to being signed to the NHL contract.  Now that he has an NHL contract and has been assigned to the AHL by an NHL team, the Sabres need to follow procedure to send him down.  That means putting him through waivers before having him report.

[shrader]

18 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Why does he need to clear waivers to stay right where he has been?  I don't know this CBA as well as the last one.

Anyone with a non-entry level NHL contract needs to clear waivers before being assigned to the AHL.  He didn't have one of those until today.  So he needs to clear waivers to be assigned there.

Edit: I'm being a bit loose with who is required to clear waivers, but that is the case for Leier.

Edited February 17, 2020 by shrader

[nfreeman]

If he clears waivers now and stays in Rochester, maybe they can call him up without waivers if they need a warm body on short notice right after the deadline?

And maybe giving him an NHL contract is to deter other teams from claiming him via waivers, so he gets a nice raise for the last third of the season and the Sabres protect their plan?

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

If he clears waivers now and stays in Rochester, maybe they can call him up without waivers if they need a warm body on short notice right after the deadline?

And maybe giving him an NHL contract is to deter other teams from claiming him via waivers, so he gets a nice raise for the last third of the season and the Sabres protect their plan?

Players already under contract don't face waivers getting moved up to the parent club.  They face them to head down unless they are waiver exempt or have already cleared them and spent few enough days/games in the NHL since clearing to not be required to clear them again.

[Scottysabres]

1 hour ago, inkman said:

 

 

 

Setlle down Bevis's. 

Can't help it ink, I'm craving a playoff run, even if they don't make it, keep it exciting to the very end ?

[7+6=13]

4 hours ago, Curt said:

3rd round pick?  2nd round pick?

I know we sometimes think about 3rd/4th round picks a throwaways, but they do have some value.  As trade currency just as much as actual draft selections.

Next year when the team is actually fighting for a playoff spot, a 3rd/4th could be useful to add a depth piece around the deadline.  Like Montreal just did with Scandella.

2nd and 3rd are low rounds?

Picks have value, sure.  I'm comparing low round picks for Sheary and Vesey (which is what was suggested) vs keeping the team the best it can be for the remainder of the year.  We disagree, fine.  We've also done a terrible job developing and I don't want to bring anyone up too early (again).  

[PerreaultForever]

It's an interesting dilemna, but I don't think you really have any choice. If you're JBot and you value certain UFAs you have you make them a solid offer now and if they choose to wait you deal them for whatever. If the team is developing unity and chemistry it can be a step backwards, but if they leave in free agency it'd be worse I think so get what you can. 

[DarthEbriate]

If the JBot has decided this isn't the year, then any UFA who has value around the league, who you're not interested in re-signing, or isn't interested in re-signing... you sell. You don't give away just to gut your own roster, but any offer should be taken. One third of the team is UFAs and there's no compensatory pick. If you aren't re-signing Girgs, then you rent him out for a 3rd. Then you package the pick or toss it in as a trade chip. But to just let everyone walk is poor asset management. Now, if JBot thinks this team can make it... then he should have gotten a 2C some time during the season or in the offseason.

[Doohicksie]

Let's say they're on the cusp... do you doom their run by cashing out UFAs, or do you go for that one player that could put them over the top?  It doesn't matter what you do, you can be damned either way.

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

Let's say they're on the cusp... do you doom their run by cashing out UFAs, or do you go for that one player that could put them over the top?  It doesn't matter what you do, you can be damned either way.

If we don't have those trades in by midday (Pacific, 2/24) there will be hell to pay.

Point-wise they're just off the cusp. 8 points back of 3rd, but also with FLA 6 points ahead. With loser points, it's hard to make up any significant ground unless you go on an 8-2 run. And the Sabres have 9 home and 14 road games left... the time to go on a run was that home stretch out of the ASG.

JBot is playing the long game. His logical move is to sell off some UFAs/pieces for futures. Maybe one of those futures is next year's 2C, but he'd be negligent if he was banking on this roster making it to the playoffs on some magical year-end run, especially after not investing in it all season when a 2C would have had ample time to make a difference.

[Doohicksie]

4 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

If we don't have those trades in by midday (Pacific, 2/24) there will be hell to pay.

What if they're 2-4 points back on Monday?  You're right it's hard to make up ground but what if the Sabres make up some serious ground this week?  The team's clicking, the teams ahead of them are struggling, do you break up what's working?

[DarthEbriate]

If you honor what they (JBot) fight for: yes. And looking at the schedules of each team (Toronto faces Pitt twice and Florida is on a west coast roadtrip. And we get Pitt on a Saturday morning in their lone non-national televised game [TOR, TOR, WSH the day after us....] we could easily make up ground this week.)

I think even clicking you move some of the ancillary pieces you're not bringing back for chips. JBot is playing the long game and Larsson is a viable playoff commodity. He's also really important on our current roster. Historically, a rental is worth a 2nd to some desperate team. If I get offered a 2nd for Larry, I wish him well and dish him. Maybe he even returns next year. But I trust that I can find another 3/4C or promote someone.

[Doohicksie]

I can see that happening but it would ripple through this roster.  ERod or Lazar would need to backfill him, Mojo is probably back to playing center.  The second and third lines are just starting to click; the loss of Larry would disrupt all that.

[DarthEbriate]

When healthy, the GLO line is the most effective at its role on this team (even Eichel's line can disappear for stretches). Angry Larry is the 2nd best center we have on this team. I still move him if I can get what I think is a good value for him, because he's not my top priority to sign this offseason. (Otherwise, I'd have locked him up already.)

He's not a 2C and this team needs a 2C. I need to sign Reinhart (or trade -- other thread) and Olofsson. And Larry gets a raise from this year. There will be money remaining for him, but he's not the priority for the future.