Non Sabres Deadline Trades/Rumors

[Randall Flagg]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So Friedman says Laine and the Jets are not on the same page at all.

He wants a short deal. They aren’t happy with his buy-in last year. He wasn’t happy with the way he was handled.

The Sabres are waiting to see who shakes free due to RFA issues. The Jets need an RD.

Thoughts?

He made it seem like "they" include players - presumably big Buff, Scheifele, Wheeler. 

[Weave]

26 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So Friedman says Laine and the Jets are not on the same page at all.

He wants a short deal. They aren’t happy with his buy-in last year. He wasn’t happy with the way he was handled.

The Sabres are waiting to see who shakes free due to RFA issues. The Jets need an RD.

Thoughts?

Red flags.  

[Brawndo]

36 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So Friedman says Laine and the Jets are not on the same page at all.

He wants a short deal. They aren’t happy with his buy-in last year. He wasn’t happy with the way he was handled.

The Sabres are waiting to see who shakes free due to RFA issues. The Jets need an RD.

Thoughts?

No, he is a very one dimensional player and the cost would most likely be prohibitive. 

[Randall Flagg]

There are probably 5 Jets players I'd be interested in acquiring before Laine, at least

[LGR4GM]

38 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So Friedman says Laine and the Jets are not on the same page at all.

He wants a short deal. They aren’t happy with his buy-in last year. He wasn’t happy with the way he was handled.

The Sabres are waiting to see who shakes free due to RFA issues. The Jets need an RD.

Thoughts?

Niet

1 minute ago, Randall Flagg said:

There are probably 5 Jets players I'd be interested in acquiring before Laine, at least

Yupppppp 

[LTS]

5 hours ago, tom webster said:

Do you seriously believe that similar conversations didn’t happen before Twitter?

On the other hand, ok, I’ll go with it

 

Of course they did.  However, with Twitter it travels the globe in seconds and because it is forced into a package with limited characters everyone reads it quicker and responds quicker.  Plus...software engines can analyze the responses and provide real time metrics on the opinions of the market.

[dudacek]

OK, who does Laine for Risto?

Would you add? How much?

[Cascade Youth]

What about adding Sam as part of a package to get a real 2C?  Would Botts do it?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

4 hours ago, Cascade Youth said:

What about adding Sam as part of a package to get a real 2C?  Would Botts do it?

I would not and I don't think JBOT would either.

It would be creating another big weakness on wing, especially when there a surplus of D.

[Radar]

6 hours ago, dudacek said:

OK, who does Laine for Risto?

Would you add? How much?

Wouldn't add other than maybe 4-5 pick . Laine seems to have his own question marks although very talented.

[Huckleberry]

6 hours ago, dudacek said:

OK, who does Laine for Risto?

Would you add? How much?

I would add bogo , they need 2 RHD ?

[Cascade Youth]

1 hour ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

I would not and I don't think JBOT would either.

It would be creating another big weakness on wing, especially when there a surplus of D.

Maybe.  But I think the folks who think we’ll be able to unload Risto and some expensive spare parts (Bogo, KO, Sabotka) and somehow get something really good in return are setting themselves up for disappointment.  For a real hockey trade, we will need to throw value into the pot - like Casey or Sam.

[French Collection]

12 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

He made it seem like "they" include players - presumably big Buff, Scheifele, Wheeler. 

Same leadership group that rejected Kane.

[French Collection]

51 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I would add bogo , they need 2 RHD ?

That's where Bogo came from, I doubt they want his older version back.

I love watching Laine play, incredible shot, but I would only want him if we didn't have Skinner.

[nfreeman]

Risto, Mitts and Joker for Laine and Ehlers?  Who says no? 

(I think Winnipeg says no.)

[triumph_communes]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

OK, who does Laine for Risto?

Would you add? How much?

Laine wants a short contract taking him right to UFA. This kills his value. You only add something desirable, but small like Rodrigues or picks going back. 

 

I think it’s be funny if it was Ristolainen+Thompson for Laine. Analytics people hate Laine more than they hate Thompson

Edited July 13, 2019 by triumph_communes

[Sabres Fan in NS]

8 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Risto, Mitts and Joker for Laine and Ehlers?  Who says no? 

(I think Winnipeg says no.)

I think JBOT would be reluctant to include Mitts in any deal.  Replace Mitts with __________ (?? - not sure who) and JBOT would be more inclined to do it.  Maybe a not lotto protected first in the 2020 draft, if we have a first in 2020 and a mid-level prospect.

[Randall Flagg]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Risto, Mitts and Joker for Laine and Ehlers?  Who says no? 

(I think Winnipeg says no.)

I say take that package to Tampa or Florida and see what you can get

Don't waste it on a guy who won't buy in and is hot garbage the 99% of the time he's not shooting the puck on the power play 

Edited July 13, 2019 by Randall Flagg

[tom webster]

I don’t know, seems like Laine is everything people thought Ovi was at a similar age. You are not building an all star team, you are looking to find the pieces of a Stanley Cup winner. A potential 50 goal scorer is a pretty good piece from what you hope will be your 5th best forward after Jack, Jeff, Sam, eventual 2C.

[TrueBlueGED]

12 minutes ago, tom webster said:

I don’t know, seems like Laine is everything people thought Ovi was at a similar age. You are not building an all star team, you are looking to find the pieces of a Stanley Cup winner. A potential 50 goal scorer is a pretty good piece from what you hope will be your 5th best forward after Jack, Jeff, Sam, eventual 2C.

Thing is, I have no idea how you're getting a 2C anytime soon with trading Risto and Mitts for a winger. Also, fwiw, Ovi's overall on-ice impact measures were light years above Laine's. 

Ovechkin pro year 3:

Laine pro year 3:

Edited July 13, 2019 by TrueBlueGED

[Randall Flagg]

5 minutes ago, tom webster said:

I don’t know, seems like Laine is everything people thought Ovi was at a similar age. You are not building an all star team, you are looking to find the pieces of a Stanley Cup winner. A potential 50 goal scorer is a pretty good piece from what you hope will be your 5th best forward after Jack, Jeff, Sam, eventual 2C.

These guys really aren't particularly close in play style and overall effectiveness on the game.

When Laine isn't being fed (generally difficult to make) passes by good teammates in high-scoring areas, he's a huge drain on his team. He can't drive play alone, whereas that's kind of Ovechkin's entire thing, being overwhelmingly puck-dominant and ramming the play down the other team's throat single-handedly (of course, he plays a little different now than he did in 2007). 

The best hockey player I've ever seen was 2007-2010 Ovechkin. Laine is like the 200th best hockey player I saw this season, and it's only above ~500 because of his shot which really can only be consistently used on the power play lately.

[Randall Flagg]

Just to show the difference in the RAPM charts of two seasons I'm picturing:

Or Ovechkin's 3rd season (this was Laine's 3rd)

This is a statistical extreme if I've ever seen one, and I think it's safe to buy into its conclusion that Ovechkin was essentially the best offensive player in the league (or at least top 2-3)

[Randall Flagg]

Dammit true

[tom webster]

It would seem I used a poor comparison although admittedly, I’m still that numbers guy who still doesn’t trust the science of sports analytics.

Anyway, my point was, if they determine center number 2 isn’t coming via a RR trade, and if they determine that holding onto RR will further diminish his value, then acquiring a sniper capable of being a difference maker is not a bad consolation prize. Goal scoring is still the way to win games and overcome poor analytics and maybe undervalued in the possession era.

[Randall Flagg]

6 minutes ago, tom webster said:

It would seem I used a poor comparison although admittedly, I’m still that numbers guy who still doesn’t trust the science of sports analytics.

Anyway, my point was, if they determine center number 2 isn’t coming via a RR trade, and if they determine that holding onto RR will further diminish his value, then acquiring a sniper capable of being a difference maker is not a bad consolation prize. Goal scoring is still the way to win games and overcome poor analytics and maybe undervalued in the possession era.

I think Jeff Skinner is an example of a guy who provides goal scoring without tanking your team elsewhere (even though he's bad at defense). 

Laine is a complete headcase in trying to figure out how to minimize his problems, BEFORE you even touch the fact that the leadership group in Winnipeg is sick of his "lack of buy-in." 

And talk about streaky - I'm pretty sure he scored 21 of his 30 goals in November. So in the other five months, you got nine goals out of him, while kneecapping yourself in every other facet of a game where 98% of all things that happen aren't goals 

I like your idea of focusing on goal scorers if you can, I just don't like Laine hehe

 

Edited July 13, 2019 by Randall Flagg