Derrico Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, darksabre said: He did score three goals against us last season #sabrekiller #VilleLeino Quote
Tondas Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 13 minutes ago, Brawndo said: So basically he will be DOING HIS JOB. Vogl makes it sound like a supreme sacrifice. With the team JBot has currently, if he didn't fly home and "court" free agents, he should be shown the door. Quote
Hoss Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 27 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: Nope, we'd have to give them Dahlin for Point Just for a nice package that includes (you guessed it) Cirelli, Cernak, and maybe more, (Foote?) not wasting any time with their middle six options Wait... you’re offering the package I mentioned for three prospects? Quote
bobs0108 Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 45 minutes ago, Hoss said: THIS IS NOT A REAL THING BUT FOR CONVERSATION’S SAKE: I had a dream last night we traded Risto, Mittelstadt, Borgen and 7 for Taylor Hall WITH AN EXTENSION SIGNED. Would you make that trade? No. Take out Mittelstadt or 7 and replace with low lvl prospect or a 4th rounder then I would. Quote
Hoss Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 Just now, bobs0108 said: No. Take out Mittelstadt or 7 and replace with low lvl prospect or a 4th rounder then I would. That’s fair. Also, of note and because dreams are weird, we actually traded the 11th overall pick in the trade but I don’t remember ever seeing that we traded down. Quote
Randall Flagg Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Hoss said: Wait... you’re offering the package I mentioned for three prospects? Sort of - Cirelli and Cernak are already very good NHLers, with ridiculous ceilings. Trade value alone, Tampa would likely turn down my deal. Cirelli in particular finishes top 30 in the NHL in WAR/GAR models, because he's got ridiculous 2-way ability and managed ~20 goals/40 points despite every possible dream offensive situation being given to the guys chasing scoring records above him. Edited June 21, 2019 by Randall Flagg Quote
Hoss Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: Sort of - Cirelli and Cernak are already very good NHLers, with ridiculous ceilings. Trade value alone, Tampa would likely turn down my deal. Cirelli in particular finishes top 30 in the NHL in WAR/GAR models, because he's got ridiculous 2-way ability and managed ~20 goals/40 points despite every possible dream offensive situation being given to the guys chasing scoring records above him. Wait... so again, you’re offering Risto, Mittelstadt, Borgen and 7 for Cirelli, Cernak and Foote? Edited June 21, 2019 by Hoss Quote
Derrico Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Randall Flagg said: Sort of - Cirelli and Cernak are already very good NHLers, with ridiculous ceilings. Trade value alone, Tampa would likely turn down my deal. Cirelli in particular finishes top 30 in the NHL in WAR/GAR models, because he's got ridiculous 2-way ability and managed ~20 goals/40 points despite every possible dream offensive situation being given to the guys chasing scoring records above him. I'm just asking and not criticizing. Are you concerned at all that this only happened one year? To do that in a rookie year is very amazing. However, the proposal involves a ton to give up and if he had the forward version of Tyler Myers rookie season and subsequent regression and we just gave up 7OA and Mitts this rebuild will be set back atleast another two years. Love Cirelli on the Generals, heck he scored the GWG in the Memorial Cup finals. Always a special place in my heart. But watching him that year he was very good but far from their best player. Quote
Randall Flagg Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Hoss said: Wait... so again, you’re offering Risto, Mittelstadt, Borgen and 7 for Cirelli, Cernak and Foote? Yes but I'd add to our side if I had to. I'd give it a 70% likelihood that we'd end up with both the best forward and the best defenseman in the deal in the long run. Quote
darksabre Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 I'm honestly not sure I want Zucker. The cap hit is fine but the term is a little long. Minnesota really shouldn't be looking to trade him, which makes me nervous. Quote
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) FYI Vesey 26 - 240 NHL games 50g, 40a 90 pts - 2018-19 17g 18a 35pts Sheary 27 - 262 NHL games 62g, 65a 127 pts - 2018-19 14g 20a 34pts Donskoi 27 - 283 NHL games 44g, 77a 122 pts - 2018-19 14g 23a 37pts Ferlund 27 - 321 NHL games 59g 70a 129 pts - 2018-19 17g 23a 40 pts. Acquiring Vesey is almost exactly the same as signing Ferland and Donskoi. Zucker 27 - 411 NHL games 118g, 96a 214 pts - 2018-19 21g 21a 42 pts I’ll take Zucker. Same age and locked into a decent contract. Edited June 21, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN Quote
Brawndo Posted June 21, 2019 Author Report Posted June 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, darksabre said: I'm honestly not sure I want Zucker. The cap hit is fine but the term is a little long. Minnesota really shouldn't be looking to trade him, which makes me nervous. This is from Michael Russo Yesterday. I do not think it’s happening TBH Quote The Buffalo Sabres and Vancouver Canucks are two teams that have been in hot pursuit of Zucker. But looking at each of their rosters and reserve lists, it’s hard to see a lot of intriguing options that would make the Wild better immediately. The Athletic’s John Vogl recently looked at the Sabres’ trade options, and they’re pretty underwhelming. Same thing with Vancouver, who doesn’t have a lot on the NHL roster beyond the perceived untouchables of Bo Horvat, Calder Trophy winner Elias Pettersson, Brock Boeser and Thatcher Demko. Does Jake Virtanen or Ben Hutton or Tanner Pearson really make the Wild better? Quote
darksabre Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said: FYI Vesey 26 - 240 NHL games 50g, 40a 90 pts - 2018-19 17g 18a 35pts Sheary 27 - 262 NHL games 62g, 65a 127 pts - 2018-19 14g 20a 34pts Donskoi 27 - 283 NHL games 44g, 77a 122 pts - 2018-19 14g 23a 37pts Ferlund 27 - 321 NHL games 59g 70a 129 pts - 2018-19 17g 23a 40 pts. Acquiring Vesey is almost exactly the same as signing Ferland and Donskoi. Ferland and Donskoi are better hockey players. Points aren't everything. 1 Quote
Randall Flagg Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, darksabre said: I'm honestly not sure I want Zucker. The cap hit is fine but the term is a little long. Minnesota really shouldn't be looking to trade him, which makes me nervous. It's worth noting that Fenton appears to be a moron. That Rask-Niederreiter trade was one of the goofiest trades I've ever seen Quote
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 1 minute ago, darksabre said: Ferland and Donskoi are better hockey players. Points aren't everything. Are they? Do any of them merit being in the top 6 of a playoff team? Quote
tom webster Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 1 minute ago, darksabre said: Ferland and Donskoi are better hockey players. Points aren't everything. And is there a reason they can’t trade for Vesey and sign Donskoi? Quote
darksabre Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 Just now, Randall Flagg said: It's worth noting that Fenton appears to be a moron. That Rask-Niederreiter trade was one of the goofiest trades I've ever seen I guess. But man, Zucker seems like the kind of guy you just don't trade. Especially since they aren't in cap trouble. 1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Are they? Do any of them merit being in the top 6 of a playoff team? More than Jimmy friggen Vesey. Just now, tom webster said: And is there a reason they can’t trade for Vesey and sign Donskoi? They could, but why would you? Vesey isn't good. Quote
Hoss Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: Yes but I'd add to our side if I had to. I'd give it a 70% likelihood that we'd end up with both the best forward and the best defenseman in the deal in the long run. That’s actually one of the worst trade proposals I’ve ever seen on this board. I just wanted to be 100% sure that’s what you meant before I made that comment lol 1 Quote
Randall Flagg Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 1 minute ago, darksabre said: Ferland and Donskoi are better hockey players. Points aren't everything. I'd even go as far as saying that points are incredibly misleading if you don't get to watch the players often. Unless it's an obvious extreme (82 games and 5 points or 82 games and 105 points) Moulson's last full season here? He outscored Brendan Gallagher, Ryan Dzingel, Travis Konecny, Calle Jarnkrok 1 Quote
TrueBlueGED Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, darksabre said: I'm honestly not sure I want Zucker. The cap hit is fine but the term is a little long. Minnesota really shouldn't be looking to trade him, which makes me nervous. 5 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: It's worth noting that Fenton appears to be a moron. That Rask-Niederreiter trade was one of the goofiest trades I've ever seen Yea I'm more interested in trading with Fenton than I am in acquiring Zucker. 1 1 Quote
Randall Flagg Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) Also, if you went to Tampa's board and offered Risto/Borgen/Mitts for Cirelli/Cernak/Foote, they'd laugh you out the door. They'd pay$100 of their own money to keep Risto off their team Just like I told y'all with Point last year, Cirelli is going to be a special hockey player. The only way you get special hockey players is drafting top 3, getting lucky after that, or identifying guys before they break out, not after I may be wrong, but Anthony is my pick this offseason to develop into a special player at some point soon Edited June 21, 2019 by Randall Flagg 1 Quote
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 Y’all are dumping on Vesey, but who were his centers in NY. Getting him is a very little risk proposition to see if he blossoms with more dynamic centers. If he doesn’t work out it cost you a 3rd or 4th rd pick and one year of salary. The pick could be replaced if you trade him at the deadline. Right now we need a minimum of 2 new wingers. Vesey isn’t my first choice, but at least I think there might still be some upside. Quote
dudacek Posted June 21, 2019 Report Posted June 21, 2019 1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said: FYI AVesey 26 - 240 NHL games 50g, 40a 90 pts - 2018-19 17g 18a 35pts Sheary 27 - 262 NHL games 62g, 65a 127 pts - 2018-19 14g 20a 34pts Donskoi 27 - 283 NHL games 44g, 77a 122 pts - 2018-19 14g 23a 37pts Ferlund 27 - 321 NHL games 59g 70a 129 pts - 2018-19 17g 23a 40 pts. Acquiring Vesey is almost exactly the same as signing Ferland and Donskoi. I do find it interesting that Vesey seems anathema to a lot of the board while many clamour for Donskoi and Ferland. 1 hour ago, nfreeman said: Well, you're right that the price shouldn't be too high. I certainly wouldn't want them to spend much to get him. However, as noted previously I disagree about him being an upgrade. The Sabres' middle 6 was freaking terrible last year, and Vesey is a young player with size and speed who can score goals. You are certainly free to prefer guys like Sheary (who was terrible for over half of the season), ERod (who had 9 goals in 74 games), KO, Sobotka, etc. -- but I'd rather give Vesey a try. 1 hour ago, darksabre said: Pominville is better that Vesey. Surely we can do better than that in upgrading the middle six. Pominville is filler, a replacement-level player who should probably retire. Vesey looked better three or four times I’ve seen him play, so I tend to agree with @nfreeman here. But I haven’t seen the player enough to have a strong opinion, so I do get the sentiment here from @darksabre and others. We need to upgrade the Sheary and the Pominvilles, not add more. 1 hour ago, jsb said: You're better than this plus the Rangers are still trying to upgrade their blue line and have enough up and coming wingers to trade for our extra https://bluelinestation.com/2019/06/16/new-york-rangers-blueshirts-return-jimmy-vesey/ I would be very unhappy if we trade McCabe for Vesey; never mind the contact situation, Jake is a better player. However, Scandella makes decent sense - pending UFA for UFA. What troubles me is the fact the Rangers are shopping Vesey at all. Apparently it is to make room for young wingers while we would be acquiring him to put him in the way of young wingers. Perhaps we are moving a winger out in a separate trade? Also, Vesey’s history suggests he will be a tough contract. Maybe the intention is similar to the Skinner situation: play him with Jack to pad his stats and give him a reason to stay, or, conversely, increase his value at the deadline. The more I think about it, it’s an odd move. Quote
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