Non Sabres Deadline Trades/Rumors

[tom webster]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Regier’s drafting became a real problem.  He got lucky building the post lock out teams with many 3rd rd and later picks like Kotalik, Campbell, Miller, Gaustad, and Afinogenov all developing together and becoming good NHL players. He also managed to “win” many trades grabbing Connolly, Briere and Drury in trade to build a strong center group without actually developing one.  
 

However he failed so often to get good players in the first rd it’s scary.  In 16 years he drafted and developed 1 scoring center. 1 and that is 3rd line center Derek Roy.  He drafted with our 1st pick greats like Norenen (71 nhl games), Heisten (10), Kryukov (0), Novotny (189), Zagrapan (0), Persson (0), and Brennen (53).  He also often found only 1 NHL player in 1/3 of his drafts. Drafts in 2010, 2011, 2007, 2000 and 1999 each produced 1 legit NHL player.  Getting only Pysyk from 9 picks in 2010 is terrible. He also failed to sign and keep developing talent.  Late round steals like Dennis Wideman and Jan Hejda were never signed.  Thorburn, Byron, MacArthur and even Paille were all traded away before getting a chance to contribute. 

Look no further then this suspect drafting record and you’ll understand why this franchise fell apart.  

Without looking it up, I’m pretty sure Zagrapan, Brennan and Novotny were not number one picks. Also, compare those picks to other organizations, being mediocre And drafting late and losing your core players for nothing are hard to overcome.

 

[Curt]

3 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Without looking it up, I’m pretty sure Zagrapan, Brennan and Novotny were not number one picks. Also, compare those picks to other organizations, being mediocre And drafting late and losing your core players for nothing are hard to overcome.

 

Those 3 were drafted 13th, 31st, and 22nd overall respectively.  Brennan was first pick of the 2nd round.

[tom webster]

1 minute ago, Curt said:

Those 3 were drafted 13th, 31st, and 22nd overall respectively.  Brennan was first pick of the 2nd round.

Man, Im starting to believe in the “Mandela Complex.”  I would have swore Zagrapan was a second round pick. I was sure on a Brennan.

My apologies.

[tom webster]

Anyway, my point remains the same, their were maybe three guys drafted after him that would have made a difference, probably just two in Oshie and Rask.

His four biggest gaffe’s in my opinion.

4) Not convincing them Rigases to sign Peca. It wasn’t even their money and they were spending it like candy. A stronger personality gets that done.

3) Choosing Kotalik over Dumont.(Taro has a different theory)

2)The only one he publicly admits, choosing Ennis over John Carlson because he already drafted Myers.

1) Turning down a trade with Chicago that would have sent Vanek, Roy and two first rounders for the first overall(Kane), a deal that was orchestrated by Briere’s agent with the idea that they would be able to convince a Drury to stay. Don’t believe me, get a Buffalo News Sport section from the day of the draft or day after draft.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I wrote “our first picks.”  Not 1st rd picks.

Sure money was tight but there is no excuse for drafting Persson, Zagrapan and Kryukov.  Also tight money doesn’t change the fact that bad drafting helped create the downfall.

[tom webster]

9 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I wrote “our first picks.”  Not 1st rd picks.

Sure money was tight but there is no excuse for drafting Persson, Zagrapan and Kryukov.  Also tight money doesn’t change the fact that bad drafting helped create the downfall.

But you have to look at who was drafted after them. He didn’t draft in a vacuum. There are probably ten players picked in those three years after the Sabre’s pick that you would classify as difference makers. Ten out of over one hundred picks. And I would say only five were difference makers but I wouldn’t argue over the next five.

[shrader]

16 minutes ago, tom webster said:

But you have to look at who was drafted after them. He didn’t draft in a vacuum. There are probably ten players picked in those three years after the Sabre’s pick that you would classify as difference makers. Ten out of over one hundred picks. And I would say only five were difference makers but I wouldn’t argue over the next five.

That Zagrapan draft was really crappy. Outside of some guy who went first overall, there is maybe a handful of good players in that draft. Strangely enough, the worst players of the batch are all centralized right around the Zagrapan pick. 
 

As for the other missed first rounders, the picks as a whole are much later than we’re used to on our present day of garbage hockey. That’s much deeper into crap shot land, especially with the tar t pool not being as developed and NHL ready as they are today. I’d be willing to bet that the success rate, however one might measure that, is higher today than it was 10-20 years ago. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

But you have to look at who was drafted after them. He didn’t draft in a vacuum. There are probably ten players picked in those three years after the Sabre’s pick that you would classify as difference makers. Ten out of over one hundred picks. And I would say only five were difference makers but I wouldn’t argue over the next five.

Absolutely an that is why he failed.  Instead of Persson for example he could have taken Buffalo’s own Nick Foligno.  

Edited February 14, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Absolutely an that is why he failed.  Instead of Persson for example he could have taken Buffalo’s own Nick Foligno.  

Yep, a third line center would have made all the difference. Ten guys out of one hundred. He should have known.

It is amazing to me all the posters who put such stock in prospects and drafts can’t understand what a crap shoot it is and how many don’t understand that unlike football, general managers rarely know any of the players after maybe the first round. They rely entirely on their scouting staff.

[Scottysabres]

Apparently Tampa's assistant director of player personnel and a head scout were among the Scouts at last night's game.

Have no idea if they were looking at Buffalo or Columbus.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Scottysabres

[WildCard]

1 hour ago, Scottysabres said:

Apparently Tampa's assistant director of player personnel and a head scout were among the Scouts at last night's game.

Have no idea if they were looking at Buffalo or Columbus.

I would assume us. Tyler Johnson for Eichel incoming

[WildCard]

Quote

6. In Buffalo, there’s a lot of talk about what major moves the Sabres can make, although there’s a decent chance they make moves around the periphery of their lineup. Among those who’d garner interest: recently acquired Michael Frolik, Johan Larsson (playoff nastiness written all over him), Evan Rodrigues and Conor Sheary. https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-nhl-players-beijing-2022-winter-olympics/

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by WildCard

[Zamboni]

I’d hate to lose Larsson. He does play with sandpaper. I like that in a bottom 6 guy. But like Gaustad many years ago, it would be something if we got a first rounder for him ?

[freester]

Garth from Hockey Buzz has been overdosing on Heroin.  He seems to think we can trade Colin Miller for Cirelli. ??.  Read his recent blog for some good laughs. 

[Eleven]

I am starting to hear Cirelli rumors again.

[WildCard]

2 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I am starting to hear Cirelli rumors again.

From?

[Randall Flagg]

34 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I am starting to hear Cirelli rumors again.

From? To? 

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, freester said:

Garth from Hockey Buzz has been overdosing on Heroin.  He seems to think we can trade Colin Miller for Cirelli. ??.  Read his recent blog for some good laughs. 

 

Well unless we are sending some version of our 1st along with him that would be completely insane. Otherwise its just unlikely.

[dudacek]

In a world of my own creation, Tampa thinks a nasty right-shot top four defenceman is the missing ingredient for a cup run and they have been pestering Botterill for Risto for more than a year now. The trade hasn't happened because Botterill is holding fast to the idea that Cirelli must be part of any deal.

Edited February 14, 2020 by dudacek

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

From? To? 

From Tampa to Buffalo for Miller and a 2021 second, which I find laughable.  Still, I am reporting what I hear, not what I think can happen.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Eleven

[darksabre]

4 minutes ago, Eleven said:

From Tampa to Buffalo for Miller and a 2021 second, which I find laughable.  Still, I am reporting what I hear, not what I think can happen.

I don't know if that's toooooo far apart. Tampa is dealing from a disadvantage and I bet the Sabres would be fine with keeping Miller. 

[Curt]

Just now, darksabre said:

I don't know if that's toooooo far apart. Tampa is dealing from a disadvantage and I bet the Sabres would be fine with keeping Miller. 

I would give them Risto or Montour and a 2nd, without a 2nd thought.  I’d even throw in an extra 2nd.  It would only take me a second to decide.

[Eleven]

17 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I don't know if that's toooooo far apart. Tampa is dealing from a disadvantage and I bet the Sabres would be fine with keeping Miller. 

Tampa has a disadvantage and so do the Sabs:  No centers, 95 thousand AHL+ defensemen, and a salary cap problem.

[tom webster]

For what it’s worth, Tampa had two personnel people besides regular scout at game yesterday.

[triumph_communes]

18 minutes ago, tom webster said:

For what it’s worth, Tampa had two personnel people besides regular scout at game yesterday.

I don’t understand how you could trade Risto to Tampa for Cirelli and make the cap work. The entire team other than Kucherov and Point have NMCs