Non Sabres Deadline Trades/Rumors

[Pimlach]

You guys are overrating Hall.  

If he extends at the right price I offer Ristolainen, Asplund, and a #2.  

[inkman]

On 11/29/2019 at 2:13 PM, Brawndo said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

You guys are overrating Hall.  

If he extends at the right price I offer Ristolainen, Asplund, and a #2.  

@Pimlach you see the problem here, right? 

[Randall Flagg]

Not a big Taylor Hall guy 

[Pimlach]

29 minutes ago, inkman said:

 

@Pimlach you see the problem here, right? 

Yes, I think so.  The problems are:

1. Getting him to extend to go to Buffalo,

2.  What is a reasonable price to pay him, and 

3.  He will be 30 in two years.  Most forwards do not get better after 30.  

 

So, I’ll use these issues with the Devils and lower my offer to Risto plus a #2 and keep Asplund.  

[Brawndo]

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

Yes, I think so.  The problems are:

1. Getting him to extend to go to Buffalo,

2.  What is a reasonable price to pay him, and 

3.  He will be 30 in two years.  Most forwards do not get better after 30.  

 

So, I’ll use these issues with the Devils and lower my offer to Risto plus a #2 and keep Asplund.  

I believe Ink meant that Risto’s Trade Value around the league isn’t very high 

[TrueBlueGED]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

If Botterill trades our 2020 first for anything short of a #1 center under the age of 25 he should be fired before the fax goes through. 

Trade our 2020 first for a 28yr old lw, are we even trying to build a team here?

This comment could have been copied and pasted the last three seasons. We can't trade the Nylander pick. We can't trade the Mittelstadt pick. We can't trade the Cozens pick. None of those players helped in the near term. Sure we flipped Nylander, but that's...4 years after his draft year. Mittelstadt is in year 3 post-draft and stinks. Cozens might be an NHLer in year 2, but he might not be an impact player even if he's in the league for a few more seasons. 

Eichel, Reinhart, and Skinner are in their prime now. Dahlin will be. The time to win is now, not in 4 years. We should be done flushing away Eichel's prime years on maybes years away. 

Edited December 1, 2019 by TrueBlueGED

[Scottysabres]

35 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Not a big Taylor Hall guy 

There are some benefits to having Hall in your organization though.

1. Your odds at winning the draft lottery are damn near a sure bet.

2. Your almost 100% guaranteed to win the draft lottery.

3. Drafting 1st OA is all but a foregone conclusion.

So you see, Hall has some, or, at least one, great "Intangible".

?

2 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

This comment could have been copied and pasted the last three seasons. We can't trade the Nylander pick. We can trade the Mittelstadt pick. We can't trade the Cozens pick. None of those players helped in the near term. Sure we flipped Nylander, but that's...4 years after his draft year. Mittelstadt is in year 3 post-draft and stinks. Cozens might be an NHL in year 2, but he might not be an impact player even if he's in the league for a few more seasons. 

Eichel, Reinhart, and Skinner are in their prime now. Dahlin will be. The time to win is now, not in 4 years. We should be done flushing away Eichel's prime years on maybes years away. 

I so love this post.

Thank You for being on team "logic".

[Pimlach]

48 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I believe Ink meant that Risto’s Trade Value around the league isn’t very high 

Hey man,   I traded Eddie Shack for Rene Robert.  Traded Joe Daley for Luce and Robitaille.  Got Jim Lorentz for a bag of pucks.  

Risto has worth.   Risto and a #2 for Hall (assuming we agree in contract).

 

 Jbot just say this  “ Risto has size, strength, low age, lots of experience.  Let’s do this deal and play hockey.  You need help and so do I.  Win win. Right here is the deal.  They will laugh at me later, but I’m willing to take a chance”. 

Edited December 1, 2019 by Pimlach

[LGR4GM]

16 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

This comment could have been copied and pasted the last three seasons. We can't trade the Nylander pick. We can't trade the Mittelstadt pick. We can't trade the Cozens pick. None of those players helped in the near term. Sure we flipped Nylander, but that's...4 years after his draft year. Mittelstadt is in year 3 post-draft and stinks. Cozens might be an NHLer in year 2, but he might not be an impact player even if he's in the league for a few more seasons. 

Eichel, Reinhart, and Skinner are in their prime now. Dahlin will be. The time to win is now, not in 4 years. We should be done flushing away Eichel's prime years on maybes years away. 

I don't agree. I've said why multiple places. You don't trade a potential lottery pick for Hall. If played center maybe. 

Dahlin was a pick you would have traded. 

Trading a first off of a team with extremely limited forward depth is foolish no matter how much you want to win now. Especially when they are at best a bubble playoffs team this season. 

[Broken Ankles]

7 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Hey man,   I traded Eddie Shack for Rene Robert.  Traded Joe Daley for Luce and Robitaille.  Got Jim Lorentz for a bag of pucks.  

Risto has worth.   Risto and a #2 for Hall (assuming we agree in contract).  Jbot just say this  “ Risto has size, strength, low age, lots of experience.  Let’s do this deal and play hockey.  You need help and so do I.  Win win. Right here is the deal.  They will laugh at me later, but I’m will to take a chance”. 

Punch - I take umbrage that you traded a "bag of pucks" for me.   You traded the #21 overall for me.   Don't you remember?    Just b/c the Rangers used it on Larry Sacharuk does not mean it wasn't high value. 

[LGR4GM]

20 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

 

I so love this post.

Thank You for being on team "logic".

I don't think you know what the word logic means. 

[Brawndo]

14 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Hey man,   I traded Eddie Shack for Rene Robert.  Traded Joe Daley for Luce and Robitaille.  Got Jim Lorentz for a bag of pucks.  

Risto has worth.   Risto and a #2 for Hall (assuming we agree in contract).

 

 Jbot just say this  “ Risto has size, strength, low age, lots of experience.  Let’s do this deal and play hockey.  You need help and so do I.  Win win. Right here is the deal.  They will laugh at me later, but I’m willing to take a chance”. 

A live look at Tyler Dellow, The Devils Director of Analytics, after Ray Shero proposes trading for Risto. 

[Scottysabres]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't think you know what the word logic means. 

No reason to lash out, just point to the spot on the doll where hockey hurt you. It will be okay, we promise.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Scottysabres said:

No reason to lash out, just point to the spot on the doll where hockey hurt you. It will be okay, we promise.

So you are indeed confirming you don't know what logic means. Thank you for participating in this study. 

[Scottysabres]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

So you are indeed confirming you don't know what logic means. Thank you for participating in this study. 

Still not ready to tell us? And hey, that's okay, we have time.

[Brawndo]

You need to find an organization that places minimal value on analytics. 
 

Imagine if some GM would have proposed a similar trade for a forward of Hall’s Caliber for Risto in back in 2016, oh wait..

[LGR4GM]

Jack won't have any window without sound drafting and development. Hall is a good player but he isn't at a position of need. Now if Tampa wants to trade Cirelli and our first has to be involved, I'm interested. 

[nfreeman]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So you are indeed confirming you don't know what logic means. Thank you for participating in this study. 

Take it easy please.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, nfreeman said:

Take it easy please.

I'm not the one making child molestation jokes

[dudacek]

20 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

A live look at Tyler Dellow, The Devils Director of Analytics, after Ray Shero proposes trading for Risto. 

What’s the research on how analytics travel? 

What I mean is, do traded players tend to put up similarly strong or weak analytics numbers from team to team?

How do player personnel types differentiate between performance and situation when looking at the analytics?

I think read the Jake Gardiner was an analytically strong Leaf and an analytically poor Cane, but I might be misremembering that. It’s not something I see discussed much.

Edited December 1, 2019 by dudacek

[Weave]

59 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

This comment could have been copied and pasted the last three seasons. We can't trade the Nylander pick. We can't trade the Mittelstadt pick. We can't trade the Cozens pick. None of those players helped in the near term. Sure we flipped Nylander, but that's...4 years after his draft year. Mittelstadt is in year 3 post-draft and stinks. Cozens might be an NHLer in year 2, but he might not be an impact player even if he's in the league for a few more seasons. 

Eichel, Reinhart, and Skinner are in their prime now. Dahlin will be. The time to win is now, not in 4 years. We should be done flushing away Eichel's prime years on maybes years away. 

The lure of chance is a multi-billion dollar industry.  Folks of all walks of life succumb to the siren song of one more spin of the wheel. 

No surprise here that I agree with you, the time to shore up the team is now.

[Taro T]

54 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

You need to find an organization that places minimal value on analytics.
 

Imagine if some GM would have proposed a similar trade for a forward of Hall’s Caliber for Risto in back in 2016, oh wait..

Found 1.  What are the cap ramifications of trading Ristolainen to the Sabres? ?

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

What’s the research on how analytics travel? 

What I mean is, do traded players tend to put up similarly strong or weak analytics numbers from team to team?

How do player personnel types differentiate between performance and situation when looking at the analytics?

I think read the Jake Gardiner was an analytically strong Leaf and an analytically poor Cane, but I might be misremembering that. It’s not something I see discussed much.

In terms of a player such as Risto, there would be hesitation as he has proven he is not a Top Pairing Defenseman. 
 

Over the past five games, with the exception of the Calgary Game when he was over 24 minutes, Risto has been under 20 Minutes. This could be do to the seven defenseman rotation, however to the eye test he looked good versus Toronto. 

He’s not going to bring back a King’s Ransom as a second pairing D Man such as Hall if he is the centerpiece. 
 

Gardiner has gone from a Top Pairing D Man in Toronto to 3rd Pairing Minutes in Carolina, and there has been a regression. 

 

 

[kas23]

I’m not so sure we’re getting a top 6 forward for Risto, so maybe the next best thing to focus on is letting less goals in the net. Are there any goalies that could be pried-out for Risto? I think the wait for UPL may be too long and he’s no sure thing. 

[Pimlach]

6 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

Punch - I take umbrage that you traded a "bag of pucks" for me.   You traded the #21 overall for me.   Don't you remember?    Just b/c the Rangers used it on Larry Sacharuk does not mean it wasn't high value. 

OK, Jimmy, ok.   I knew there was not too much there in that draft and I always thought you could score goals, play on the 2nd PP, and compete hard.  I liked your hands, even if your skating was below average. 

I did pick up Schoenfeld in the first, Carrierre in the 2nd, and Peter McNabb in the late rounds.  

Edited December 1, 2019 by Pimlach