Non Sabres Deadline Trades/Rumors

[Randall Flagg]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Please answer the question. Do you think Sam Bennett is better than Sam Reinhart? 

Sam Bennett is the right Sam in the same way that Josh Rosen is the right Josh 

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Don't do this to me 

 

[Curt]

2 hours ago, WildCard said:

So yeah, same thing as thinking the Earth is flat

Hey!  Don’t knock it.  It worked for thousands of years!

[tom webster]

8 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

If you ever hit this point with a GM you have to fire them on the spot, no?

Jason has made some weird trades but he's only REALLY lost one. 

Isn’t that similar to what we used to say about Darcy? The idea isn’t to “win” trades, it’s to build a winning roster. I don’t think he survives the year unless they turn this around. That pressure people are talking about is real and it’s not pressure from the fan base that keeps him up at night.

[freester]

11 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

If you ever hit this point with a GM you have to fire them on the spot, no?

Jason has made some weird trades but he's only REALLY lost one. 

The Kane trade was terrible as well. 

[Curt]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I might fall for that if we hadn't acquired Vesey.

I get the skepticism, but he isn’t Vesey.  If the trade includes a bottom 6 guy or someone like Scandella and a lower pick, or something like that, then whatever, go for it.  What’s the harm?

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, freester said:

The Kane trade was terrible as well. 

Why? We traded 17 games of a player we weren't going to sign for a draft pick. That pick I think helped us get Montour. 

[freester]

Just now, Curt said:

I get the skepticism, but he isn’t Vesey.  If the trade includes a bottom 6 guy or someone like Scandella and a lower pick, or something like that, then whatever, go for it.  What’s the harm?

I think Scandella could return us a 2nd round pick. 

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, freester said:

The Kane trade was terrible as well. 

I forgive him for that one because Kane was never coming back, and they reportedly only had one serious offer on him, and it came from SJ right at the deadline. And we got a first out of it. 

[...]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Why? We traded 17 games of a player we weren't going to sign for a draft pick. That pick I think helped us get Montour. 

And...?  Are you saying Montour is a valuable addition, because, no.

[freester]

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

I forgive him for that one because Kane was never coming back, and they reportedly only had one serious offer on him, and it came from SJ right at the deadline. And we got a first out of it. 

No evidence he was never coming back other than Botteril didn’t offer him a contract. He is a very good physical player on a playoff team. A top 6 forward which is what we so desperately need. 

[...]

Just now, freester said:

No evidence he was never coming back other than Botteril didn’t offer him a contract. He is a very good physical player on a playoff team. A top 6 forward which is what we so desperately need. 

I would have preferred to have kept Evander. He was the ROR of this board, though...lots of people wanted him off the team because his shenanigans could spoil Eichel.  However, all signs had pointed toward Evander not re-signing here.

[Randall Flagg]

1 minute ago, freester said:

No evidence he was never coming back other than Botteril didn’t offer him a contract. He is a very good physical player on a playoff team. A top 6 forward which is what we so desperately need. 

Do you remember that team? There was no ***** way he was coming back with an obviously interested San Jose on the radar.

2 minutes ago, ... said:

And...?  Are you saying Montour is a valuable addition, because, no.

Montour is good at hockey and has played significant minutes on a team that was a couple wins shy of a Stanley Cup appearance just a couple seasons ago. 

If we were good it would be more obvious

[darksabre]

3 minutes ago, ... said:

And...?  Are you saying Montour is a valuable addition, because, no.

Is this a joke?

[...]

Montour is over rated by this board. 

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, ... said:

And...?  Are you saying Montour is a valuable addition, because, no.

Edited November 22, 2019 by LGR4GM

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, ... said:

Montour is over rated by this board. 

In your view, what is the board's claim?

[Curt]

11 minutes ago, freester said:

I think Scandella could return us a 2nd round pick. 

I doubt that, he is a UFA after the season.  I hope you are right though.

[...]

He had one decent year in 17-18, but even those metrics aren't anything to justify the non-touchable status he gets here on SS.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

In your view, what is the board's claim?

See below.  What more do you need to see?

 

9 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Is this a joke?

 

10 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

If we were good it would be more obvious

 

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by ...
The Ghost of Dwight Drane

[Randall Flagg]

1 minute ago, ... said:

He had once decent year in 17-18, but even those metrics aren't anything to justify the non-touchable status he gets here on SS.

1.) I'd put money on those being among the best metrics of any skater on Randy Carlyle's 2018-19 Ducks.

2.) Those are completely average metrics for a sample size equivalent to 2 full NHL games this season. RAPM charts are at their peak in uselessness when
          a.) the sample size is under ~500 minutes
          b.) players fall within +/- 1 STDV. 

Montour's Sabre chart falls under both of those categories. He's a puck moving defenseman who is playing in a system that discourages the defenseman carry past the red line and is handing pucks off to the worst depth forwards in the league, so we aren't seeing what he can be on a good team, but there are zero big issues with his game and a whole lot there to unlock, which is why his coach fed him minutes in a playoff run that was as good as anything we've seen since 99 just two years ago

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, ... said:

He had once decent year in 17-18, but even those metrics aren't anything to justify the non-touchable status he gets here on SS.

 

 

 

See above.  What more do I need?

Is it national gaslighting bs day? 

You said this "Are you saying Montour is a valuable addition, because, no."

To which I responded because yes Montour has contributed to this team in a valuable way. If you look at Anaheim last year they were a complete shitshow and he hasn't played a lot yet this season so I would be curious to see what he looks like going forward. 

Now you are claiming this "aren't anything to justify the non-touchable status he gets here on SS." and used my gif response to your first post as evidence. I mean that's just a load of horse crap and a bait and switch attempt that is complete garbage on your part. Montour is touchable. Doesn't bother me as long as the return is great.

Edited November 22, 2019 by LGR4GM

[...]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Is it national gaslighting bs day? 

You said this "Are you saying Montour is a valuable addition, because, no."

To which I responded because yes Montour has contributed to this team in a valuable way. If you look at Anaheim last year they were a complete shitshow and he hasn't played a lot yet this season so I would be curious to see what he looks like going forward. 

Now you are claiming this "aren't anything to justify the non-touchable status he gets here on SS." and used my gif response to your first post as evidence. I mean that's just a load of horse crap and a bait and switch attempt that is complete garbage on your part. Montour is touchable. Doesn't bother me as long as the return is great.

What?

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, ... said:

What?

I see you are editing the post I was referring too now. Is that because you took things out of context and was wrong?

[nfreeman]

45 minutes ago, tom webster said:

This brings up an interesting question. At one point do we throw in the towel and not want JBOT in charge of any trades? When does the internal pressure to go something change to an internal memo not to trade any future picks or prospects?

 

28 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Isn’t that similar to what we used to say about Darcy? The idea isn’t to “win” trades, it’s to build a winning roster. I don’t think he survives the year unless they turn this around. That pressure people are talking about is real and it’s not pressure from the fan base that keeps him up at night.

I've been wondering about this myself.

I think TP really, really wants not to have to fire JB, and will not do so if the team gets to, say, 85 points this year.  That would make it 62 pts in JB's 1st year, then 76, then 85 -- which I think TP would view as a respectable enough progression to justify bringing JB back.

But if the Sabres can't find their way out of this death spiral, and they continue to lose 80% of their games, and are DFL or bottom 3 at the all-star break, and the arena is half-empty in February, with no noise other than booing at the end of each period -- I think it's quite possible that JB doesn't make it to the end of the year.

And that fate will be deserved.  Behaving in a professional manner isn't enough.  The results matter.

[...]

5 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Montour's Sabre chart falls under both of those categories. He's a puck moving defenseman who is playing in a system that discourages the defenseman carry past the red line and is handing pucks off to the worst depth forwards in the league, so we aren't seeing what he can be on a good team, but there are zero big issues with his game and a whole lot there to unlock, which is why his coach fed him minutes in a playoff run that was as good as anything we've seen since 99 just two years ago

I'm not saying he sucks.  I'm saying he's not a valuable addition to the team and that he is over rated by people on this board.

What good are his potential skillz to the team, what value is there, when they can't be leveraged? The value exists in potential and on paper but not in reality.  You can say that about a lot of guys.  

If he can be moved to get someone on the team who actually makes a difference in team production, he should be.  We might never be the team that he blossom ons, just like we weren't for ROR.