Non Sabres Deadline Trades/Rumors

[...]

1 hour ago, Scottysabres said:

Pretty obvious with McCabe and Ullmark he'll be well over the cap.

I honestly think Botterill decided to gamble with roster moves and now he's doing this:

I would not be the least bit surprised if he traded some players away and got some crappy picks back.  Maybe an unsigned prospect to go along with the picks.

I will be delighted if he just makes a hockey trade.  I will be ecstatic if he makes a trade that is biased in our favor.  Not thinking the latter two are as likely at the moment, though.

[dudacek]

If those Risto rumours have any truth, then there is almost certainly the framework of a deal in place with a team facing a cap crunch due to a pending contract.

Basically, both sides are waiting for the contract to close before they can sign off on the exact particulars of the deal, meaning which body gets thrown in, or how much salary is retained to make the cap work.

It's not hard to connect those dots to Winnipeg or Tampa.

[Radar]

I must be one of a small number thinking there's a good chance we don't trade Risto. Frankly what's available that we get good value back? There is not a center that I can see I would trade Risto for. Maybe a scoring winger? Who?

[Weave]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

If those Risto rumours have any truth, then there is almost certainly the framework of a deal in place with a team facing a cap crunch due to a pending contract.

Basically, both sides are waiting for the contract to close before they can sign off on the exact particulars of the deal, meaning which body gets thrown in, or how much salary is retained to make the cap work.

It's not hard to connect those dots to Winnipeg or Tampa.

 

I'm just not sure how we make a trade with a team facing a cap crunch when we've got a bit of a cap crunch as well. 

[Scottysabres]

31 minutes ago, Weave said:

 

I'm just not sure how we make a trade with a team facing a cap crunch when we've got a bit of a cap crunch as well. 

This is a bit baffling to me as well.

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

 

I'm just not sure how we make a trade with a team facing a cap crunch when we've got a bit of a cap crunch as well. 

Maybe they have something in place for that too, e.g. someone they know will give them a 4th round pick for Scandella.

[Radar]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

 

I'm just not sure how we make a trade with a team facing a cap crunch when we've got a bit of a cap crunch as well. 

Either dump salary or trade has to be equal contract for contract.

[Taro T]

11 hours ago, ... said:

I honestly think Botterill decided to gamble with roster moves and now he's doing this:

I would not be the least bit surprised if he traded some players away and got some crappy picks back.  Maybe an unsigned prospect to go along with the picks.

I will be delighted if he just makes a hockey trade.  I will be ecstatic if he makes a trade that is biased in our favor.  Not thinking the latter two are as likely at the moment, though.

He has roughly 47 D-men with NHL experience at present.  It would be very surprising if at least 1 of them (Scandella?) didn't get traded for a pick &/or prospect.  It would be more surprising if the return was substantial.

But a trade like that doesn't preclude a hockey trade from happening either.

My expectation is there are 2 trades to be made in August - a real hockey trade and essentially a cap dump.  With another trade late September/ very early October of a fringe player that another team thinks can make their NHL squad that didn't male the Sabres going out for a guy that will be a strong AHLer with almost no hope of making the Sabres.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Taro T

[dudacek]

16 minutes ago, Taro T said:

.  With another trade late September/ very early August of a fringe player that another team thinks can make their NHL squad that didn't male the Sabres going out for a guy that will be a strong AHLer with almost no hope of making the Sabres.

That’s become a signature Botterill move, hasn’t it?

Deslauriers for Redmond, Baptiste for Daugherty, Bailey for Leier, Fasching for Hickey...

Are there any Murray guys left?

Edited July 28, 2019 by dudacek

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

That’s become a signature Botterill move, hasn’t it?

Deslauriers for Redmond, Baptiste for Daugherty, Bailey for Leier, Fasching for Hickey...

Are their any Murray guys left?

Not many.

[dudacek]

3 hours ago, Weave said:

 

I'm just not sure how we make a trade with a team facing a cap crunch when we've got a bit of a cap crunch as well. 

By cap crunch I don’t mean a pure salary dump, I mean a team is close enough to the ceiling that the numbers in and out matter.

For example, say the basic framework is Cirelli and Palat for Risto and a 1st. That leaves Tampa with $6.7 million in cap space to sign Point. If Point signs for $7 million, the Sabres retain  $0.5 million and Bolts kick in a 3rd. if Point signs for $8 million, the Sabres retain $1.5 and the Bolts kick in a 2nd.

As others have said, Buffalo is in a good position to trade an expiring contract elsewhere for a pick if they need to make their own cap work.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

By cap crunch I don’t mean a pure salary dump, I mean a team is close enough to the ceiling that the numbers in and out matter.

For example, say the basic framework is Cirelli and Palat for Risto and a 1st. That leaves Tampa with $6.7 million in cap space to sign Point. If Point signs for $7 million, the Sabres retain  $0.5 million and Bolts kick in a 3rd. if Point signs for $8 million, the Sabres retain $1.5 and the Bolts kick in a 2nd.

As others have said, Buffalo is in a good position to trade an expiring contract elsewhere for a pick if they need to make their own cap work.

I guess I need to see that trade first because I’m not convinced our dumps have any demand, even for picks.

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Weave said:

I guess I need to see that trade first because I’m not convinced our dumps have any demand, even for picks.

Maybe I’m naive about their value, but I I can’t see why a Sheary or a Scandella wouldn’t be worth a 3rd or a 4th to the right team.

They are NHL players.

[Weave]

27 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Maybe I’m naive about their value, but I I can’t see why a Sheary or a Scandella wouldn’t be worth a 3rd or a 4th to the right team.

They are NHL players.

Sheary I get, but how much value does the 6th defenseman on one of the worst teams in the league have?

[Scottysabres]

39 minutes ago, Weave said:

Sheary I get, but how much value does the 6th defenseman on one of the worst teams in the league have?

This is a valid point. Scandella looked just horrible last season.

But, he's only what, 30? Maybe some team needs some veteran LHD presence, not so much a reclamation project but a bounce back for a 1 or 2 yr contract?

We can only hope...……….or, at least I do anyways.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just because he had a bad season last year isn’t a guarantee he’ll have another this season.  Injuries, coaching, partner on D and usage all play into a player’s success or failure year to year.  

Look how much better Dahlin’s numbers were when playing with Montour.  

Scandella is a proven legit NHL D and that has value. Teams may balk at the $4 mill salary but if Jbot eats a little, he’ll get a 3rd or 4th.

There are plenty of teams that need legit D on the back end.  The question is will he fit system wise and cap wise.

I’d love to know what Edm wants for Puljujarvi.  We need RW help and the kid needs a fresh start.  I think the talent is there it’s just a matter of helping him find the right switch to get him going.

Edited July 28, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Sheary I get, but how much value does the 6th defenseman on one of the worst teams in the league have?

What GA said. He’s just turned 29, is in the last year of his contract and has been a decent 2nd pairing guy every year except last year. Looks like a good buy-low option to me. 

Plus, I mean even Nathan Beaulieu got a 6th.

Edited July 28, 2019 by dudacek

[Scottysabres]

10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

What GA said. He’s just turned 29, is in the last year of his contract and has been a decent 2nd pairing guy every year except last year. Looks like a good buy-low option to me. 

Plus, I mean even Nathan Beaulieu got a 6th.

29 with 1 yr left, thank you. It's Sunday, I was to lazy to look it up :D.

[Taro T]

21 minutes ago, dudacek said:

What GA said. He’s just turned 29, is in the last year of his contract and has been a decent 2nd pairing guy every year except last year. Looks like a good buy-low option to me. 

Plus, I mean even Nathan Beaulieu got a 6th.

Not singling you out here, as almost everyone on the board says this.  But Scandella was not consistently 2nd pairing in Minnesota.  He was paired on his offhand with Spurgeon a fair amount but also spent a lot of time on his strong side behind Suter and Spurgeon.

Will agree that his playing 3rd pairing was a #'s thing and not a reflection of his play, but he could easily be considered to have been a 3rd pairing guy until he came to Buffalo.

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 hours ago, Taro T said:

Not singling you out here, as almost everyone on the board says this.  But Scandella was not consistently 2nd pairing in Minnesota.  He was paired on his offhand with Spurgeon a fair amount but also spent a lot of time on his strong side behind Suter and Spurgeon.

Will agree that his playing 3rd pairing was a #'s thing and not a reflection of his play, but he could easily be considered to have been a 3rd pairing guy until he came to Buffalo.

Is that a function of Scandella not being good enough or to many good D in Minnesota?  The only reason he is a 3rd pairing player here is the presence of McCabe and Dahlin.  

In his last year in Minn, the Wild had Dumba, Suter and Spurgeon, plus a very capable youngster in Brodin.  I'd have Scandella 5th in that rotation also.

Edited July 29, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[Huckleberry]

12 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Just because he had a bad season last year isn’t a guarantee he’ll have another this season.  Injuries, coaching, partner on D and usage all play into a player’s success or failure year to year.  

Look how much better Dahlin’s numbers were when playing with Montour.  

Scandella is a proven legit NHL D and that has value. Teams may balk at the $4 mill salary but if Jbot eats a little, he’ll get a 3rd or 4th.

There are plenty of teams that need legit D on the back end.  The question is will he fit system wise and cap wise.

I’d love to know what Edm wants for Puljujarvi.  We need RW help and the kid needs a fresh start.  I think the talent is there it’s just a matter of helping him find the right switch to get him going.

I wonder if he speaks English yet, talk about mismanagement.    2 years in and he got his first lessons from an English teacher.

[sweetlou]

I think you can move Scandella to a team like Ottawa or Edmonton for a 6th rd pick if you retain $1million. 

I believe Sheary is also gone with the addition of Vesey and Johansson. 

Sobotka will be sent down and have to clear waivers.  Probably doesn't report and goes back to the KHL terminating his contract with Buffalo.

 

[Taro T]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Is that a function of Scandella not being good enough or to many good D in Minnesota?  The only reason he is a 3rd pairing player here is the presence of McCabe and Dahlin.  

In his last year in Minn, the Wild had Dumba, Suter and Spurgeon, plus a very capable youngster in Brodin.  I'd have Scandella 5th in that rotation also.

He was brought here to be Ristolainen's partner on the 1st pairing.  Due to having very little on the left side but McCabe at the time.

McCabe remaining ahead of him on the depth chart should be troubling to the narrative that he's really a very solid 3-4 but he just continually finds himself the odd man out.

Also, he isn't 3rd on the depth chart on the left side.  He's also behind Pilut (as soon as he's healthy).

So, yes, it's understandable why he spent a significant amount of time as the 3rd pairing in Minnesota throughout his entire stay there.  They had a top 5 D and arguably 2nd behind Nashville.  (Anaheim would like a word there.)  But that also calls into question his results in Minny; was he good and playing a lesser role or was he good enough at the lesser role?

But it is undeniable that he has not been a quality top 4 D-man during most of his stay in Buffalo.  Injuries (presumably) caused his 1st year to be up and down.  ( He did look the part at times, but IMHO not often enough.) But last year was mainly down.  (Though he was the mainstay on the PK.)

And the myth that he's a 2nd pairing guy continues to be repeated though without much evidence.  (Guess in a way that's analogous to the claims that Ristolainen us a 2nd pairing guy.  The difference being, Risto hasn't gotten it done on 1st pairing.  Marco's not getting it done on 3rd.). Maybe he is, but not being able to show it on a rather bad D last season doesn't give confidence that's the case.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, sweetlou said:

I think you can move Scandella to a team like Ottawa or Edmonton for a 6th rd pick if you retain $1million. 

I believe Sheary is also gone with the addition of Vesey and Johansson. 

Sobotka will be sent down and have to clear waivers.  Probably doesn't report and goes back to the KHL terminating his contract with Buffalo.

 

Though we've bandied about Sobotka leaving in a huff if sent down, there's been no evidence to date that he'd go that route.  "Probably" is likely more accurately "hopefully." ?

[triumph_communes]

1 hour ago, sweetlou said:

I think you can move Scandella to a team like Ottawa or Edmonton for a 6th rd pick if you retain $1million. 

I believe Sheary is also gone with the addition of Vesey and Johansson. 

Sobotka will be sent down and have to clear waivers.  Probably doesn't report and goes back to the KHL terminating his contract with Buffalo.

 

Would they wait until training camp to move Sobotka like that?  If this is the plan I wish it'd already be done.