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Non Sabres Deadline Trades/Rumors

Brawndo

By Brawndo
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tom webster First Liner

tom webster

Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2019 at 5:56 PM, Randall Flagg said:

If you ever hit this point with a GM you have to fire them on the spot, no?

Jason has made some weird trades but he's only REALLY lost one. 

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Isn’t that similar to what we used to say about Darcy? The idea isn’t to “win” trades, it’s to build a winning roster. I don’t think he survives the year unless they turn this around. That pressure people are talking about is real and it’s not pressure from the fan base that keeps him up at night.

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Curt First Liner

Curt

Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2019 at 3:21 PM, Doohickie said:

I might fall for that if we hadn't acquired Vesey.

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I get the skepticism, but he isn’t Vesey.  If the trade includes a bottom 6 guy or someone like Scandella and a lower pick, or something like that, then whatever, go for it.  What’s the harm?

freester Third Liner

freester

Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2019 at 6:10 PM, Curt said:

I get the skepticism, but he isn’t Vesey.  If the trade includes a bottom 6 guy or someone like Scandella and a lower pick, or something like that, then whatever, go for it.  What’s the harm?

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I think Scandella could return us a 2nd round pick. 

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Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2019 at 6:11 PM, LGR4GM said:

Why? We traded 17 games of a player we weren't going to sign for a draft pick. That pick I think helped us get Montour. 

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And...?  Are you saying Montour is a valuable addition, because, no.

freester Third Liner

freester

Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2019 at 6:11 PM, Randall Flagg said:

I forgive him for that one because Kane was never coming back, and they reportedly only had one serious offer on him, and it came from SJ right at the deadline. And we got a first out of it. 

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No evidence he was never coming back other than Botteril didn’t offer him a contract. He is a very good physical player on a playoff team. A top 6 forward which is what we so desperately need. 

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Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2019 at 6:13 PM, freester said:

No evidence he was never coming back other than Botteril didn’t offer him a contract. He is a very good physical player on a playoff team. A top 6 forward which is what we so desperately need. 

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I would have preferred to have kept Evander. He was the ROR of this board, though...lots of people wanted him off the team because his shenanigans could spoil Eichel.  However, all signs had pointed toward Evander not re-signing here.

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Randall Flagg Hall of Famer

Randall Flagg

Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2019 at 6:13 PM, freester said:

No evidence he was never coming back other than Botteril didn’t offer him a contract. He is a very good physical player on a playoff team. A top 6 forward which is what we so desperately need. 

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Do you remember that team? There was no ***** way he was coming back with an obviously interested San Jose on the radar.

  On 11/22/2019 at 6:13 PM, ... said:

And...?  Are you saying Montour is a valuable addition, because, no.

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Montour is good at hockey and has played significant minutes on a team that was a couple wins shy of a Stanley Cup appearance just a couple seasons ago. 

If we were good it would be more obvious

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Posted
Posted (edited)

image.thumb.png.4d848acc593f03db392eab2b27cc8df8.png

image.thumb.png.7cf160e351e8d763d37f8d2d6eed660e.png

He had one decent year in 17-18, but even those metrics aren't anything to justify the non-touchable status he gets here on SS.

 

 

  On 11/22/2019 at 6:23 PM, Randall Flagg said:

In your view, what is the board's claim?

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See below.  What more do you need to see?

 

  On 11/22/2019 at 6:17 PM, darksabre said:

Is this a joke?

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  On 11/22/2019 at 6:16 PM, Randall Flagg said:

If we were good it would be more obvious

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  On 11/22/2019 at 6:21 PM, LGR4GM said:

Animated GIF

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Edited by ...
The Ghost of Dwight Drane
Randall Flagg Hall of Famer

Randall Flagg

Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2019 at 6:25 PM, ... said:

image.thumb.png.4d848acc593f03db392eab2b27cc8df8.png

image.thumb.png.7cf160e351e8d763d37f8d2d6eed660e.png

He had once decent year in 17-18, but even those metrics aren't anything to justify the non-touchable status he gets here on SS.

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1.) I'd put money on those being among the best metrics of any skater on Randy Carlyle's 2018-19 Ducks.

2.) Those are completely average metrics for a sample size equivalent to 2 full NHL games this season. RAPM charts are at their peak in uselessness when
          a.) the sample size is under ~500 minutes
          b.) players fall within +/- 1 STDV. 

Montour's Sabre chart falls under both of those categories. He's a puck moving defenseman who is playing in a system that discourages the defenseman carry past the red line and is handing pucks off to the worst depth forwards in the league, so we aren't seeing what he can be on a good team, but there are zero big issues with his game and a whole lot there to unlock, which is why his coach fed him minutes in a playoff run that was as good as anything we've seen since 99 just two years ago

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LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 11/22/2019 at 6:25 PM, ... said:

image.thumb.png.4d848acc593f03db392eab2b27cc8df8.png

image.thumb.png.7cf160e351e8d763d37f8d2d6eed660e.png

He had once decent year in 17-18, but even those metrics aren't anything to justify the non-touchable status he gets here on SS.

 

 

 

See above.  What more do I need?

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Is it national gaslighting bs day? 

You said this "Are you saying Montour is a valuable addition, because, no."

To which I responded because yes Montour has contributed to this team in a valuable way. If you look at Anaheim last year they were a complete shitshow and he hasn't played a lot yet this season so I would be curious to see what he looks like going forward. 

Now you are claiming this "aren't anything to justify the non-touchable status he gets here on SS." and used my gif response to your first post as evidence. I mean that's just a load of horse crap and a bait and switch attempt that is complete garbage on your part. Montour is touchable. Doesn't bother me as long as the return is great.

Edited by LGR4GM
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Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2019 at 6:31 PM, LGR4GM said:

Is it national gaslighting bs day? 

You said this "Are you saying Montour is a valuable addition, because, no."

To which I responded because yes Montour has contributed to this team in a valuable way. If you look at Anaheim last year they were a complete shitshow and he hasn't played a lot yet this season so I would be curious to see what he looks like going forward. 

Now you are claiming this "aren't anything to justify the non-touchable status he gets here on SS." and used my gif response to your first post as evidence. I mean that's just a load of horse crap and a bait and switch attempt that is complete garbage on your part. Montour is touchable. Doesn't bother me as long as the return is great.

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What?

nfreeman Hall of Famer

nfreeman

Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2019 at 5:49 PM, tom webster said:

This brings up an interesting question. At one point do we throw in the towel and not want JBOT in charge of any trades? When does the internal pressure to go something change to an internal memo not to trade any future picks or prospects?

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  On 11/22/2019 at 6:07 PM, tom webster said:

Isn’t that similar to what we used to say about Darcy? The idea isn’t to “win” trades, it’s to build a winning roster. I don’t think he survives the year unless they turn this around. That pressure people are talking about is real and it’s not pressure from the fan base that keeps him up at night.

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I've been wondering about this myself.

I think TP really, really wants not to have to fire JB, and will not do so if the team gets to, say, 85 points this year.  That would make it 62 pts in JB's 1st year, then 76, then 85 -- which I think TP would view as a respectable enough progression to justify bringing JB back.

But if the Sabres can't find their way out of this death spiral, and they continue to lose 80% of their games, and are DFL or bottom 3 at the all-star break, and the arena is half-empty in February, with no noise other than booing at the end of each period -- I think it's quite possible that JB doesn't make it to the end of the year.

And that fate will be deserved.  Behaving in a professional manner isn't enough.  The results matter.

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... All Star

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Posted
Posted
  On 11/22/2019 at 6:29 PM, Randall Flagg said:

Montour's Sabre chart falls under both of those categories. He's a puck moving defenseman who is playing in a system that discourages the defenseman carry past the red line and is handing pucks off to the worst depth forwards in the league, so we aren't seeing what he can be on a good team, but there are zero big issues with his game and a whole lot there to unlock, which is why his coach fed him minutes in a playoff run that was as good as anything we've seen since 99 just two years ago

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I'm not saying he sucks.  I'm saying he's not a valuable addition to the team and that he is over rated by people on this board.

What good are his potential skillz to the team, what value is there, when they can't be leveraged? The value exists in potential and on paper but not in reality.  You can say that about a lot of guys.  

If he can be moved to get someone on the team who actually makes a difference in team production, he should be.  We might never be the team that he blossom ons, just like we weren't for ROR. 

This topic is OLD. A NEW topic should be started unless there is a VERY SPECIFIC REASON to revive this one.

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