darksabre Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 Anyone who wants to trade Reinhart should jump in the Niagara River 2 Quote
Zamboni Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 2:08 PM, LGR4GM said: Construct our lineup with Reinhart gone but Gudreau in. It isn't better it is the same. The only difference is Gudreau probably scores a little more than Sam but I got bad news for everyone yelling about bigger forwards and net front presence. Expand Exactly.... Plus triumph keeps pushing that illogical trade but doesn’t know how to contract the Calgary lineup and make a case as to why Calgary would love to do that trade. So in reality land ... Calgary would never do that trade. But I’d love to hear Triumph make a good college try as to why he thinks it’s logical and beneficial for Calgary. 1 Quote
LGR4GM Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 2:16 PM, darksabre said: Anyone who wants to trade Reinhart should jump in the Niagara River Expand Oddly the 2nd time in the last 2 minutes I have seen this gif used. The first time involved Fox&Friends. 1 Quote
Ogelthorpe Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 2:16 PM, darksabre said: Anyone who wants to trade Reinhart should jump in the Niagara River Expand Why? With their performance the last 5 years no one should be untradeable. Quote
darksabre Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 2:22 PM, Ogelthorpe said: Why? With their performance the last 5 years no one should be untradeable. Expand Jesus Christ. Sam Reinhart has been, consistently, one of the only good players on this team his entire career to date. He appears to have developed into a reliable 60+ point player who is defensively responsible. You don't trade a player like that. You sign them forever! 2 1 Quote
Zamboni Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 2:22 PM, Ogelthorpe said: Why? With their performance the last 5 years no one should be untradeable. Expand Ok. With that kind of thinking ... who is our core? Every team has a core. Teams build around core players. (Pro tip: The answer is not “Sabres don’t have a core”) Quote
LGR4GM Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 Remember when we had the discussion of why ROR should be traded? It amounted to the last few years the team sucked. We can't keep subtracting talent and expecting to be better. On 11/22/2019 at 2:26 PM, Zamboni said: Ok. With that kind of thinking ... who is our core? Every team has a core. Teams build around core players. (Pro tip: The answer is not “Sabres don’t have a core”) Expand At this point, Skinner, Eichel, Reinhart, Dahlin, and Jokiharju Quote
Ogelthorpe Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 I know it's not an end all be all stat, especially for the guys who watch hockey through math, but -57 for your career is not defensively responsible Quote
darksabre Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 2:27 PM, Ogelthorpe said: I know it's not an end all be all stat, especially for the guys who watch hockey through math, but -57 for your career is not defensively responsible Expand Plus minus doesn't mean anything. Quote
Ogelthorpe Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 2:29 PM, darksabre said: Plus minus doesn't mean anything. Expand According to you. Thank you for telling me how to think. Keep those rose colored glasses on. On 11/22/2019 at 2:26 PM, Zamboni said: Ok. With that kind of thinking ... who is our core? Every team has a core. Teams build around core players. (Pro tip: The answer is not “Sabres don’t have a core”) Expand That's the problem they dont have a core. Pro tip: just because you have a lot of post does not mean you know what your talking about Quote
darksabre Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 2:32 PM, Ogelthorpe said: According to you. Thank you for telling me how to think. Keep those rose colored glasses on. That's the problem they dont have a core. Pro tip: just because you have a lot of post does not mean you know what your talking about Expand I'm not doing this with you morons today Quote
Ogelthorpe Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 2:37 PM, darksabre said: I'm not doing this with you morons today Expand Really, name calling. Lol. Thanks for proving my point Quote
Zamboni Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 2:32 PM, Ogelthorpe said: According to you. Thank you for telling me how to think. Keep those rose colored glasses on. That's the problem they dont have a core. Pro tip: just because you have a lot of post does not mean you know what your talking about Expand Hahaha ... no the actual answer is Eichel, Dahlin, Skinner, and Reinhart. So since teams rarely trade away their core players (in their (or about to be in their) prime), those four players are in fact untradable or to put it a different way. Won’t be traded, (unless for a big overpayment) So your comment about no one should be untradable holds no water in reality. Quote
Zamboni Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 And I’m certainly not saying fans have to like it. Hell, it’s obvious some don’t... but, what’s the phrase??? Awe too bad so sad? Yea that’s it. Quote
LGR4GM Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 2:32 PM, Ogelthorpe said: According to you. Thank you for telling me how to think. Keep those rose colored glasses on. That's the problem they dont have a core. Pro tip: just because you have a lot of post does not mean you know what your talking about Expand Actually according to basically all of hockey analytics there are multiple problems with using plus minus. Plus minus is heavily impacted by matchups and the team you play on. Buffalo has been near the bottom of the league in goal differential for the past 5 years. This directly impacts Reinhart's +/- which will be below the + mark because he plays on team that ends season with a - goal differential. 2018/19: -45 2017/18: -81 2016/17: -36 I am not really surprised that he or really most of the players who play minutes on the team are low. the key is how low. So what you can use +/- for is comparing within a team. Ristolainen for example is basement low and that's a major problem especially since is occurs over multiple seasons. Reinhart's worst +/- season came during that -81 year so I am not really putting a lot of weight into that. Quote
Curt Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 2:27 PM, Ogelthorpe said: I know it's not an end all be all stat, especially for the guys who watch hockey through math, but -57 for your career is not defensively responsible Expand Couple points: 1) +/- is really a mix between a team stat and individual player stat. For any player it’s going to be heavily influenced by the team they play on. 2) +/- is not a defensive stat any more than it is an offensive stat. 3) If you take the view that Reinhart is not defensively responsible because his +/- is negative, then you are also taking the view that Buffalo has had zero defensively responsible players over the last few years, because they all have negative +/-. This includes even ROR. Quote
WildCard Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 2:32 PM, Ogelthorpe said: According to you. Thank you for telling me how to think. Keep those rose colored glasses on. Expand According to everyone. +/- is like saying the world is flat Quote
MakeSabresGrr8Again Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 2:27 PM, Ogelthorpe said: I know it's not an end all be all stat, especially for the guys who watch hockey through math, but -57 for your career is not defensively responsible Expand Neither is -146 (Risto) , nor is -183 (Sabres since 2015). Also, Larsson who is supposed to be defensively minded is -49. For all the scoring Jack does...-65. Zemgus...-54. Skinner is -96. Playing on bad teams or with certain other players on the ice can do that. Proof of my sentiment may be in looking at a guy like Johansson. With the Caps he was a career +22, yet with the Devils he was -26. Quote
Doohicksie Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/21/2019 at 7:47 PM, LGR4GM said: How does that help us? Expand That question may be at the crux of Botterill's lack of dealing at the moment. On 11/21/2019 at 8:46 PM, Scottysabres said: I understand. Was merely pointing out offensive production isn't the only area 0f need. Expand So bringing in someone with zero points does not sound like a good way to address it. Quote
LGR4GM Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 2:55 PM, Doohickie said: That question may be at the crux of Botterill's lack of dealing at the moment. Expand Robby Fabbri. Quote
Doohicksie Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/21/2019 at 10:03 PM, Thorny said: I think it was @Randall Flagg who pointed me in the direction of checking out the forwards drafted after Casey in his draft...not much there. It's clear opinions are too largely affected by the ridiculous over-hype he was getting based on the WJC, the comments about how HE was our leading candidate for the Calder over Dahlin, potentially better than Pettersson, etc etc. I don't blame anyone, I bought into the hype as well as it was pretty all-encompassing. The truth is, while still probably underachieving a bit relative to what one might hope, being an 8 overall pick (that 4 shots in 30 periods stat is eye-opening), an ~ 30 point forward at age 20/21 on this team is pretty reasonable production. It just illustrates how good Reinhart actually is/was, putting up 47 points in his D3 season. Casey still probably has 2nd line upside but a more reasonable projection would be sheltered 3rd line C, maybe a ~40 point guy. And that's fine, if Cozens is the answer at 2C. He's a much more well-rounded talent, the type of guy that plays a 200 foot game that allows for that sheltering. Have to hit on Cozens, though. Expand On 11/21/2019 at 11:00 PM, Let's Go B-Lo said: The modern Bob Corkum trade. Jesus, I don't know if I could muster enough torches and pitchforks that fast. Expand When I saw Cletus I thought for sure it was as a retort to hitting on cousins...... 1 Quote
Torpedo Forecheck Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 2:22 PM, Ogelthorpe said: Why? With their performance the last 5 years no one should be untradeable. Expand Of course this is the answer. I mean, how does anyone arrive at the conclusion we aren't getting anything in return? Everyone has a price. Quote
MakeSabresGrr8Again Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 Maybe JBot can use reverse psychology and trade 5 garbage pieces for 1 good one. 1 Quote
LGR4GM Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 On 11/22/2019 at 3:05 PM, Torpedo Forecheck said: Of course this is the answer. I mean, how does anyone arrive at the conclusion we aren't getting anything in return? Everyone has a price. Expand Alright, I will trade Reinhart straight up for Quinton Byfield. Quote
Curt Posted November 22, 2019 Report Posted November 22, 2019 (edited) On 11/22/2019 at 2:55 PM, Doohickie said: That question may be at the crux of Botterill's lack of dealing at the moment. So bringing in someone with zero points does not sound like a good way to address it. Expand So, just a note on this guy Jankowski. Zeros this season, but the last 2 seasons he had 17 and 14 goals, playing about 13 mins. This includes just 2 PP goals and 7 SH goals. Im not advocating for him, but it looks like he could possibly be a change of scenery candidate. I wouldn’t like giving much of anything for him, but I wouldn’t be mad to add him. Edited November 22, 2019 by Curt Quote
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