Non Sabres Deadline Trades/Rumors

[WildCard]

  On 9/11/2019 at 3:31 PM, ... said:

The greed on display here is pretty ugly.

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You wouldn't want millions of dollars? Who's he hurting by asking that? The billion dollar Maple Leafs?

[...]

  On 9/11/2019 at 3:39 PM, WildCard said:

You wouldn't want millions of dollars? Who's he hurting by asking that? The billion dollar Maple Leafs?

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Sorry, you're right. I mis-spoke.  Let me re-phrase it:

The greed and ego on display here is pretty ugly. 

[Taro T]

  On 9/11/2019 at 3:39 PM, WildCard said:

You wouldn't want millions of dollars? Who's he hurting by asking that? The billion dollar Maple Leafs?

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Well, the (likely) holdout will hurt the Loafs, so we've got that going for us.  ?

But really, in a world where his teammates can only get (on paper) up to the current salary cap, he's sort of hurting his teammates.  And in a world where the players get exactly 50% of HRR, his taking $11MM+/ year rather than $7MM/ year takes (on average) ~$5,400 out of every other player in the league's pocket.

[WildCard]

  On 9/11/2019 at 3:53 PM, Taro T said:

Well, the (likely) holdout will hurt the Loafs, so we've got that going for us.  ?

But really, in a world where his teammates can only get (on paper) up to the current salary cap, he's sort of hurting his teammates.  And in a world where the players get exactly 50% of HRR, his taking $11MM+/ year rather than $7MM/ year takes (on average) ~$5,400 out of every other player in the league's pocket.

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True and I get that, but with the shelf life of an athlete? If I'm him I take as much money as I possibly can and earned

[Tondas]

  On 9/11/2019 at 3:53 PM, Taro T said:

Well, the (likely) holdout will hurt the Loafs, so we've got that going for us.  ?

But really, in a world where his teammates can only get (on paper) up to the current salary cap, he's sort of hurting his teammates.  And in a world where the players get exactly 50% of HRR, his taking $11MM+/ year rather than $7MM/ year takes (on average) ~$5,400 out of every other player in the league's pocket.

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I get your point, but I'd be a hypocrite to agree.  When I negotiated my salary over the years, I didn't give a rat's a$$ about my soon-to-be colleagues, or the company for that matter.

[...]

  On 9/11/2019 at 3:54 PM, WildCard said:

True and I get that, but with the shelf life of an athlete? If I'm him I take as much money as I possibly can and earned

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Matt Moulson earned about $40 mil during his NHL career.  He's fine.  These guys are all fine, even John Scott.

[shrader]

  On 9/11/2019 at 3:54 PM, WildCard said:

True and I get that, but with the shelf life of an athlete? If I'm him I take as much money as I possibly can and earned

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The key word there is "possibly".  If the team can't/won't go there, you need to realize that at some point.  And it goes beyond Toronto.  I'm not so sure anyone would go there.

[WildCard]

  On 9/11/2019 at 3:58 PM, ... said:

Matt Moulson earned about $40 mil during his NHL career.  He's fine.  These guys are all fine, even John Scott.

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Plenty of them go broke too

  On 9/11/2019 at 3:58 PM, shrader said:

The key word there is "possibly".  If the team can't/won't go there, you need to realize that at some point.  And it goes beyond Toronto.  I'm not so sure anyone would go there.

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Fair points

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  On 9/11/2019 at 4:03 PM, WildCard said:

Plenty of them go broke too

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Somehow, my heart is not moved by this knowledge. Ice cold of me, for sure.

[WildCard]

  On 9/11/2019 at 4:06 PM, ... said:

Somehow, my heart is not moved by this knowledge. Ice cold of me, for sure.

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I don't feel bad for them necessarily, though in some cases I do, but my point is if you have a very limited time frame to make 99% of the money you'll ever make in your life, you should make the most of it

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  On 9/11/2019 at 4:07 PM, WildCard said:

I don't feel bad for them necessarily, though in some cases I do, but my point is if you have a very limited time frame to make 99% of the money you'll ever make in your life, you should make the most of it

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This isn't true at all.  After hockey, they no longer work? Come on.

[dudacek]

He’s turned down the possibility of being among the top 5 highest paid players in the league right now because he wants a guarantee he can be there three years from now.

[WildCard]

  On 9/11/2019 at 4:09 PM, ... said:

This isn't true at all.  After hockey, they no longer work? Come on.

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Sure they can. It's not going to be nearly as lucrative as what they're doing now. And without degrees or any real financial knowledge, they get taken advantage of by investors, let alone find a decent job that isn't tied to their sport.

[dudacek]

  On 9/11/2019 at 4:07 PM, WildCard said:

I don't feel bad for them necessarily, though in some cases I do, but my point is if you have a very limited time frame to make 99% of the money you'll ever make in your life, you should make the most of it

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The fact is, the Leafs have offered him a deal that is financially commensurate with his status in the league. He would be the league’s 2nd highest paid winger and its fifth highest paid player.

It’s ego because he believes he is worth more, even though the market doesn’t support that.

Edited September 11, 2019 by dudacek

[WildCard]

  On 9/11/2019 at 4:13 PM, dudacek said:

The fact is, the Leafs have offered him a deal that is financially commensurate with his status in the league. He would be the leafue’s 2nd highest paid winger and its fifth highest paid player.

It’s ego because he believes he is worth more, even though the market doesn’t support that.

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Is it ego? Probably a little bit, but so what if it is? Is he really being a jerk because he wants more money? I mean if I'm a Leafs fan I'm not happy but hey I can't objectively hate on Marner

Subjectively fck that guy

[dudacek]

  On 9/11/2019 at 4:15 PM, WildCard said:

Is it ego? Probably a little bit, but so what if it is? Is he really being a jerk because he wants more money? I mean if I'm a Leafs fan I'm not happy but hey I can't objectively hate on Marner

Subjectively fck that guy

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It’s a negotiation and he’s pushing as hard as he can, which is his right.

But also objectively, he’s been offered a deal that is more than fair. If I’m Dubas, I draw a hard line. If a deal isn’t met, I trade him.

[WildCard]

  On 9/11/2019 at 4:20 PM, dudacek said:

It’s a negotiation and he’s pushing as hard as he can, which is his right.

But also objectively, he’s been offered a deal that is more than fair. If I’m Dubas, I draw a hard line. If a deal isn’t met, I trade him.

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I hope they do honestly, that would be the best outcome. I wonder if he'd have the same demands if it wasn't Toronto

[dudacek]

He wants the salary of a long-term deal and bargaining benefits of a short-term deal.

Matthews got it and he thinks he deserves the same. That’s why I say ego. 

[Taro T]

  On 9/11/2019 at 3:54 PM, WildCard said:

True and I get that, but with the shelf life of an athlete? If I'm him I take as much money as I possibly can and earned

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  On 9/11/2019 at 3:58 PM, Tondas said:

I get your point, but I'd be a hypocrite to agree.  When I negotiated my salary over the years, I didn't give a rat's a$$ about my soon-to-be colleagues, or the company for that matter.

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Wasn't editorializing on whether what he's doing is right, wrong, or simply being what it is.  The question was asked about who he was hurting, and the question was answered.

And, provided you're bringing value to your company and making them more than they're paying you (or saving them more than they're paying you if you're in a cost center) then what you were / are being paid doesn't materially affect your coworkers in the ST.  (It could in the LT, but we're getting waaaaay into the weeds. ? ). But, for a guy who's part of a collective, his earnings do materially affect his coworkers.  (Not making any sort of judgements on it, again.). Though, in the LT, if his being on the ice causes more merchandise sales and more ticket revenue and more viewers, his making that extra money and not being disgruntled could actually benefit other players down the road as they now share 50% of a bigger pie than they'd've had without him.

[Doohickie]

  On 9/11/2019 at 4:07 PM, WildCard said:

I don't feel bad for them necessarily, though in some cases I do, but my point is if you have a very limited time frame to make 99% of the money you'll ever make in your life, you should make the most of it

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But walking away from a pro career with $5M in the bank is surely adequate, isn't it?  A 30-year-old should surely be able to get by for the rest of his life on $5M.  If anyone on this board over 30 had $5M in the bank, he'd consider himself rich.

[WildCard]

  On 9/11/2019 at 4:32 PM, Doohickie said:

But walking away from a pro career with $5M in the bank is surely adequate, isn't it?  A 30-year-old should surely be able to get by for the rest of his life on $5M.  If anyone on this board over 30 had $5M in the bank, he'd consider himself rich.

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A regular 30 year old doesn't have the lifestyle/expenses of a professional athlete. It's all relative

[Taro T]

  On 9/11/2019 at 4:36 PM, WildCard said:

A regular 30 year old doesn't have the lifestyle/expenses of a professional athlete. It's all relative

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And as soon as a player retires, a LOT of expenses he had go away - agent, trainer(s), nutritionist(s), sports psychologist, publicist, etc.

Provided he paid off his mortgage while still playing, he SHOULD be able to leave a nice nest egg for his kids at the end of a relatively comfortable life.

[Tondas]

  On 9/11/2019 at 4:32 PM, Doohickie said:

But walking away from a pro career with $5M in the bank is surely adequate, isn't it?  A 30-year-old should surely be able to get by for the rest of his life on $5M.  If anyone on this board over 30 had $5M in the bank, he'd consider himself rich.

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Not rich, but a good head start.  If he lives to 85, that $5 mil has to last him 55 years.  That's about $90k per year ($80k or so after taxes).  If he wants to work, he may have to go to college or a trade school which costs money.  Kids education, health care, weddings, etc. needs to be factored in.  SS will not be much if he doesn't keep working since he will only have 5-7 years of creditable work.  Now many can do it on $90k, but I don't think he'd be calling himself rich.

[Doohickie]

That assumes no income from that money.  If you can get 3% return by investing it, that's $150k per year without dipping into the principal.

[LGR4GM]

  On 9/11/2019 at 4:47 PM, Doohickie said:

That assumes no income from that money.  If you can get 3% return by investing it, that's $150k per year without dipping into the principal.

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Exactly. You could put 5mil a year in just about the safest retirement account and get around 3% per year (you might even get 4%). With even a hair of risk you can get to 5-7% per year. You don't have to invest in your buddies fish and tackle shop.