TrueBlueGED Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 Just now, Brawndo said: Per Chad DeDominicis, Murray wanted the Sabres to take a salary dump either Kesler or Henrique in return with Kase. If both of these stories are accurate, that would put Risto's trade value (at least for Bob Murray) quite a bit below Faulk's. That's not super encouraging in our quest to get a top-6 forward. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 minute ago, TrueBlueGED said: If both of these stories are accurate, that would put Risto's trade value (at least for Bob Murray) quite a bit below Faulk's. That's not super encouraging in our quest to get a top-6 forward. If Risto stays, and Joki is in Rochester, our off season amounts to Johansson and Miller. To a bottom 5 team, I can't see how that's anything other than significantly underwhelming. I'm torn between trying to accept that the timeline is just a lot longer than I care to admit, and the idea that Botterill just *has* to have something else brewing, with the way our roster looks now going into his 3rd season. Guess we shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: If Faulk gets both Kase++ and 6.5-7 mil, we need to trade Risto and the return needs to map accordingly Faulk is an excellent comparable to Risto. Similar offensive excellence, similar defensive questions. Risto is more physical, is younger and has a better contract situation. Objectively, he should return at least as much. I believe most GMs would prefer Risto. 5 minutes ago, Thorny said: I have to wonder if Botterill was even in on that deal. If the Ducks are willing to move Kase for Faulk, would they not have for Risto? Guess we can't know. It could be Kase was target one for Botts and Roslovic is the fall back. Botterill has talked to every GM interested in a right-handed defenceman, no question. If the Ducks picked Faulk over Risto, IMO it’s because the price was cheaper. 4 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said: And we probably also need to mentally prepare to pay Montour similarly after this season. This. But Monty needs to put up 20-plus minutes and/or 40-plus points first. 3 minutes ago, ... said: Here's a crazy thought: what if the intent at the beginning of the summer was to trade him, but RK has decided over the summer that Risto is a project he'd rather take on? I think Occam’s razor applies: Risto will stay until someone meets the price. 1 minute ago, Brawndo said: Per Chad DeDominicis, Murray wanted the Sabres to take a salary dump either Kesler or Henrique in return with Kase. And maybe Carolina said yes to something similar, although given the fact Carolina is over the cap, I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Thorny said: If Risto stays, and Joki is in Rochester, our off season amounts to Johansson and Miller. To a bottom 5 team, I can't see how that's anything other than significantly underwhelming. I get the sentiment, but I think it's worth pointing out that having a new coach, 1yr+ experienced Eichel, Reinhart, Dahlin, Mittelstadt, and possibly Olofsson on the roster all should be part of that equation, as well. That, at least, gives me more than an underwhelming amount of hope! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, dudacek said: Faulk is an excellent comparable to Risto. Similar offensive excellence, similar defensive questions. Risto is more physical, is younger and has a better contract situation. Objectively, he should return at least as much. I believe most GMs would prefer Risto. Botterill has talked to every GM interested in a right-handed defenceman, no question. If the Ducks picked Faulk over Risto, IMO it’s because the price was cheaper. This. But Monty needs to put up 20-plus minutes and/or 40-plus points first. I think Occam’s razor applies: Risto will stay until someone meets the price. And maybe Carolina said yes to something similar, although given the fact Carolina is over the cap, I doubt it. Seems accurate. And what's funny about that, is the rumours Botterill is asking for the moon because of the ROR fiasco. A poor return on a good player is hurting our ability to get a reasonable return on a bad one. Edited September 10, 2019 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 this gave me a sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, erickompositör72 said: I get the sentiment, but I think it's worth pointing out that having a new coach, 1yr+ experienced Eichel, Reinhart, Dahlin, Mittelstadt, and possibly Olofsson on the roster all should be part of that equation, as well. That, at least, gives me more than an underwhelming amount of hope! I get this, but EVERY team has improving young players. I'll give you Krueger, that very well may be the strategy. And it reeks of a longer-term one, as well. Looks like they'll give him time to build his culture. Edited September 10, 2019 by Thorny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickompositör72 Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Thorny said: I get this, but EVERY team has improving young players. I guess it's a matter of degree. I'm hoping our young guys are more numerous and/or a cut above. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 Just now, erickompositör72 said: I guess it's a matter of degree. I'm hoping our young guys are more numerous and/or a cut above. Oh, I'm right there with you. It's where we've been for the last decade or so ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 The Russian sniper asked to be traded if the Penguins kept Kessel, multiple team sources told The Athletic's Rob Rossi, though Malkin denied it when asked and said his friendship with Kessel is real. Malkin was tired of feeling caught in the ongoing conflict between his linemate and Pittsburgh head coach Mike Sullivan, multiple team and league sources told Rossi. "By the end of last season, everybody from ownership to management to coaches believed Kessel had to go for Malkin to stay," Rossi wrote. https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1829829/amp?__twitter_impression=true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said: this gave me a sad We're just one trade from having a similar list. It's important to remember how religiously the twitter hates Risto, so if you don't feel that strongly, things don't look as bad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: We're just one trade from having a similar list. It's important to remember how religiously the twitter hates Risto, so if you don't feel that strongly, things don't look as bad Who are Dzingel and Gardiner in our equation? Dzingel was a 56 point forward who signed for 3.3 per. Interestingly, we signed Johansson, who had 30 points last year and only 14 the year before due to injury, to a deal for 4.5 million per. Gardiner I guess is Miller, but it's not a great comparison. As for the twitter thing, I don't even hate Risto, I think he'd be serviceable in a bottom pair role. But for what he makes, and as mentioned, how much our forwards need help, he's someone who should be moved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said: this gave me a sad Not sadness inducing, that's annoying as ####. Considering one of the worst GMs in any sport (regardless of how well regarded he was last year, Waddell has been a tire fire for years) is the guy that's making the moves we've been hoping the Sabres would this off-season, it isn't saddening, it's "upsetting." ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Taro T said: Not sadness inducing, that's annoying as ####. Considering one of the worst GMs in any sport (regardless of how well regarded he was last year, Waddell has been a tire fire for years) is the guy that's making the moves we've been hoping the Sabres would this off-season, it isn't saddening, it's "upsetting." ? He's not the guy making these moves, it's the head of his stats department. It's not a coincidence that all of these guys are analytics darlings 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 minute ago, WildCard said: He's not the guy making these moves, it's the head of his stats department. It's not a coincidence that all of these guys are analytics darlings Well, Mr. Pegula, go put your $'s to good use and steal that f'er out away from the cheap arse owner down in left turn land. Because, if that guy can get Waddell to not be Milbury, he's worth a lot more than the Candy Canes can pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Thorny said: Who are Dzingel and Gardiner in our equation? Dzingel was a 56 point forward who signed for 3.3 per. Interestingly, we signed Johansson, who had 30 points last year and only 14 the year before due to injury, to a deal for 4.5 million per. Gardiner I guess is Miller, but it's not a great comparison. As for the twitter thing, I don't even hate Risto, I think he'd be serviceable in a bottom pair role. But for what he makes, and as mentioned, how much our forwards need help, he's someone who should be moved. Johansson is comparable in hockey effectiveness to Dzingel when both are healthy, and Joki + C. Miller is a completely reasonable addition that can probably mimic what a bad-back Gardiner will give the Canes over 82 games. Now, it's possible that Canes stay healthy and Johansson continues to have injury issues, but I think on balance we've added similar amounts of hockey ability there. They lost Williams, a good top/middle six winger as well, so they aren't just adding to their base. Agreed on Risto, I still think that's going to happen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Taro T said: Well, Mr. Pegula, go put your $'s to good use and steal that f'er out away from the cheap arse owner down in left turn land. Because, if that guy can get Waddell to not be Milbury, he's worth a lot more than the Candy Canes can pay. I wish we could. He just resigned a 5 year deal/extension to remain in Carolina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor of Philhousley Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 37 minutes ago, Brawndo said: Per Chad DeDominicis, Murray wanted the Sabres to take a salary dump either Kesler or Henrique in return with Kase. It's Henrique's contract right (to '23-24)? Or should I also not be in favor of the player? On the surface, seems Kase + Henrique would solve a lot of problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: Johansson is comparable in hockey effectiveness to Dzingel when both are healthy, and Joki + C. Miller is a completely reasonable addition that can probably mimic what a bad-back Gardiner will give the Canes over 82 games. Now, it's possible that Canes stay healthy and Johansson continues to have injury issues, but I think on balance we've added similar amounts of hockey ability there. They lost Williams, a good top/middle six winger as well, so they aren't just adding to their base. Agreed on Risto, I still think that's going to happen. This is fair. There's always hope factoring in to our side of the equation, it seems (can MoJo stay healthy and return to form) but it's true that Johansson and Miller might be able to come close to Dzingel and Gardiner, albeit at a slightly higher cap hit. That bit gets me. Don't really factor in Joki at all unless Risto is moved, just don't think he'd play aside from injury, in that case. Edited September 10, 2019 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 I'm not terribly upset over Dzingel and Gardiner and the rest of that tweet is speculative. I think what's upsetting right now is that Friedman didn't mention Risto today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cityo'Rasmii Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 Dzingel was scratched in the playoffs, no biggie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted September 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, ... said: I'm not terribly upset over Dzingel and Gardiner and the rest of that tweet is speculative. I think what's upsetting right now is that Friedman didn't mention Risto today. Does Bob McKenzie tweeting yesterday that he and Faulk should be the top two names at the TSN Trade Bait help at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Cityo'Rasmii said: Dzingel was scratched in the playoffs, no biggie I have a dream that one day, we too, are able to scratch players in the playoffs ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Brawndo said: Does Bob McKenzie tweeting yesterday that he and Faulk should be the top two names at the TSN Trade Bait help at all? No, because Bob was off all summer and his post came off more as an opinion than someone "in-the-know". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Brawndo said: Does Bob McKenzie tweeting yesterday that he and Faulk should be the top two names at the TSN Trade Bait help at all? This is the perfect "Yin" to the "it's September 10th" Yang. Training camp starts in 2 days. Risto might be moved, but time is running out, few moves are made at this time of year, and guys are found near the top of these lists and don't end up moving, all the time. Fascinating stuff. I still think signs are pointing at the Jets. Edited September 10, 2019 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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