Bogosian Signs a 1.3 Million Dollar Deal with Tampa

[Randall Flagg]

My main point is assuming Cozens can be an effective 3C AND Tage or Mitts a successful 3RW is literally doing everything we've done wrong to this point, twice, again, with the same players

Edited February 17, 2020 by Randall Flagg

[triumph_communes]

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

My main point is assuming Cozens can be an effective 3C AND Tage or Mitts a successful 3RW is literally everything we've done wrong to this point, twice, again 

Assuming a top-6 graded prospect only needs to be a replacement level 3rd liner is not exactly setting them, or your own expectations up for failure.  That's not to say it may be a mistake from a development perspective, but if someone is only penciling in a player in a lower role than their ceiling they're doing ok.

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, triumph_communes said:

Assuming a top-6 graded prospect only needs to be a replacement level 3rd liner is not exactly setting them, or your own expectations up for failure.  That's not to say it may be a mistake from a development perspective, but if someone is only penciling in a player in a lower role than their ceiling they're doing ok.

This is literally what we did with Mitts (3C) and Tage (3/4 RW) last season and it was a disaster for both prospects and for the Sabres themselves. They were among the worst skaters in the league and didn't develop an inch at any point during the season, and both had to be sent down the FOLLOWING season

That is a ridiculous development path and hurt the big club as well

Edited February 17, 2020 by Randall Flagg

[shrader]

7 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

My main point is assuming Cozens can be an effective 3C AND Tage or Mitts a successful 3RW is literally doing everything we've done wrong to this point, twice, again, with the same players

Add center(s) and assume nothing of Cozens.  If he does show up and deliver, BOOM, depth.

[triumph_communes]

3 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

This is literally what we did with Mitts (3C) and Tage (3/4 RW) last season and it was a disaster for both prospects and for the Sabres themselves. They were among the worst skaters in the league and didn't develop an inch at any point during the season, and both had to be sent down the FOLLOWING season

That is a ridiculous development path and hurt the big club as well

I think a majority of that failure was on Housley quite honestly.  I agree from a development perspective they both would've been better in the AHL, but a 3C/3RW role without such a terrible coach I believe would have turned out very differently.

[Doohicksie]

14 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

2.) Lazar is currently manning a line that has had a nice string of games, but Lazar at 2C for a full season would be another disaster for the position for the Sabres, if you want them to do anything that season

I think this is likely true, but there's also a chance that Lazar actually can handle 2C.  For planning purposes I would hope JBott isn't going to depend on that, but Lazar was a (late) first round pick, is still young and it seems like having to work his way back up from the minors was good for his work ethic.  I'd feel better with a stronger 2C candidate, but I'd like to see how he handles the slot from now to the end of the year.

At the very least, Lazar is a better 2C option that Mojo was, in that Lazar is actually a creditable center.

[GASabresIUFAN]

21 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

1.) Mojo is an awful 2C. He's a good middle six winger, which is why Krueger has moved him there. He was good at 2C for about 10 games and then his line got blasted in the ensuing months 
2.) Lazar is currently manning a line that has had a nice string of games, but Lazar at 2C for a full season would be another disaster for the position for the Sabres, if you want them to do anything that season
3.) I could have made this clearer, but I mean that you should never put a player who has never had any role whatsoever  into a role where you require a certain level of play. This means that of course you can allow a fresh young prospect to make the team, and see where he settles in effectively after he's proven to be a top 12 forward in your organization. But you should never take a player who hasn't shown success at the NHL level and say "you're going to be #C or #LW." This is how you kill prospects and your season simultaneously, it's why Tage and Mitts have both experienced multi-year setbacks in development, and why the Sabres have a cavernous hole at center that has kept them from making the next step

I have MoJo at 2RW, Lazar at 4c and us acquiring a 2c.  You have to pencil kids into the lineup because of the cap.  Its impossible to field a team of only proven players in a cap league.  The best you can do is limit the risk by having depth in the organization.  Mitts and Cozens will be competing for the 3c job next fall and the loser will fight Thompson for the 3rw.  I predict that Cozens will be the 3c.  
 

The argument that Thompson and Mitts failed so Cozens will also just doesn’t hold water.  Kids jump into the NHL every year with little or no pro experience and succeed.  The key is to be mentally and physically ready for the role they are given.  Mitts was placed in a 2c role he wasn’t ready for either physically and mentally.  I don’t know what Thompson’s issue was other then speed of the NHL game. Cozens in a depth scoring role as the 3C should be a reasonable transition.

[Randall Flagg]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I have MoJo at 2RW, Lazar at 4c and us acquiring a 2c.  You have to pencil kids into the lineup because of the cap.  Its impossible to field a team of only proven players in a cap league.  The best you can do is limit the risk by having depth in the organization.  Mitts and Cozens will be competing for the 3c job next fall and the loser will fight Thompson for the 3rw.  I predict that Cozens will be the 3c.  
 

The argument that Thompson and Mitts failed so Cozens will also just doesn’t hold water.  Kids jump into the NHL every year with little or no pro experience and succeed.  The key is to be mentally and physically ready for the role they are given.  Mitts was placed in a 2c role he wasn’t ready for either physically and mentally.  I don’t know what Thompson’s issue was other then speed of the NHL game. Cozens in a depth scoring role as the 3C should be a reasonable transition.

My response isn't to you having those guys there in your future plan, it was to your idea that the Sabres had success playing them where they did THIS year. 

And my argument isn't that Cozens WILL fail, it's that you don't build a roster assuming he will succeed in that role. I'm using Mitts and Thompson as an example of us literally doing this the last two years and failing, not as evidence that Cozens will fail, like you claim. It's an illustration of the downside of that idea. 

You bring Cozens, Mitts, Tage into camp, along with 11-12 other guys that you would stake your livelihood on being able to comprise a competitive, playoff caliber NHL team, and you let them battle it out in camp, and if the kids are in the best 12, you keep them, and if they aren't, you send em back. That is what I'm saying. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

7 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

My response isn't to you having those guys there in your future plan, it was to your idea that the Sabres had success playing them where they did THIS year. 

And my argument isn't that Cozens WILL fail, it's that you don't build a roster assuming he will succeed in that role. I'm using Mitts and Thompson as an example of us literally doing this the last two years and failing, not as evidence that Cozens will fail, like you claim. It's an illustration of the downside of that idea. 

You bring Cozens, Mitts, Tage into camp, along with 11-12 other guys that you would stake your livelihood on being able to comprise a competitive, playoff caliber NHL team, and you let them battle it out in camp, and if the kids are in the best 12, you keep them, and if they aren't, you send em back. That is what I'm saying. 

Lazar has had success playing center us this season and frankly has outplayed Larson since recalled.  RK has moved MoJo to wing in recent weeks and his play has improved since moving of wing and so have the Sabres.

[jsb]

9 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

You bring Cozens, Mitts, Tage into camp, along with 11-12 other guys that you would stake your livelihood on being able to comprise a competitive, playoff caliber NHL team, and you let them battle it out in camp, and if the kids are in the best 12, you keep them, and if they aren't, you send em back. That is what I'm saying. 

Ok but it didn't sound that way earlier but I've been reading you wrong today so who knows

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

Lazar has had success playing center us this season and frankly has outplayed Larson since recalled.  RK has moved MoJo to wing in recent weeks and his play has improved since moving of wing and so have the Sabres.

He hasn't outplayed Larsson. Larsson's defensive and possession play (and numbers) are borderline elite in very tough situational usage

His faceoff skills and compete (Hi Ted) are welcome on my team, of course. 

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

So how long does Bogo have to decide if he’s driving down the 90 and putting on the Amerks sweater?

Because he hasn’t officially reported there yet. Right?

Anyone know??

[Curt]

1 hour ago, triumph_communes said:

Assuming a top-6 graded prospect only needs to be a replacement level 3rd liner is not exactly setting them, or your own expectations up for failure.  That's not to say it may be a mistake from a development perspective, but if someone is only penciling in a player in a lower role than their ceiling they're doing ok.

I disagree.  You can’t count on them until they have actually shown it.

Is it such a stretch to think that Cozens comes in next season and doesn’t look ready?  I think that’s a 50/50 shot.  Do we really want to be counting on him to be a 3rd liner?

As Randall says, just build a team you are confident in without them.  Then if they show that they are better than someone else, play them.  Don’t be dependent upon them.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Curt

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

I think this is likely true, but there's also a chance that Lazar actually can handle 2C.  For planning purposes I would hope JBott isn't going to depend on that, but Lazar was a (late) first round pick, is still young and it seems like having to work his way back up from the minors was good for his work ethic.  I'd feel better with a stronger 2C candidate, but I'd like to see how he handles the slot from now to the end of the year.

At the very least, Lazar is a better 2C option that Mojo was, in that Lazar is actually a creditable center.

I love Curtis Lazar, but the man does not have NHL hands. 
He’s 25, has played 274 NHL games and has 19 goals. You hope and pray he can replace Larry or Zemgus.

He’s a tank-level 2nd line centre.

Edited February 17, 2020 by dudacek

[pi2000]

1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

Anyone know??

yes

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I love Curtis Lazar, but the man does not have NHL hands. 
He’s 25, has played 274 NHL games and has 19 goals. You hope and pray he can replace Larry or Zemgus.

He’s a tank-level 2nd line centre.

No one is saying Lazar is the 2c next year.  The hole point is Lazar as your 4c next season.   Cozens or Mitts will be the 3c and Jbot needs to find a 2c.  

The Cap is going to dictate that Cozens and or Mitts both make this team next year. I’m not sure why this is controversial or a surprise.  The key is making sure they aren’t being relied on to carry part of the team as Mitts was for the last 18 months.  Getting a real 2c is the key to avoiding that issue

If Jbot wants to keep Angry Larry as the 4 LW I’m ok with that.  

Edited February 17, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[mjd1001]

3 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

My main point is assuming Cozens can be an effective 3C AND Tage or Mitts a successful 3RW is literally doing everything we've done wrong to this point, twice, again, with the same players

There is no denying what Cozens is doing in the Juniors right now...but many people were saying the exact same thing about Mitts 1 year after his draft.  Yet Mitts might not be ready for the NHL 3 years after his draft, let alone one.

[Doohicksie]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No one is saying Lazar is the 2c next year.

I am.

Only as a Plan B option, but yeah, let's see what he's got the rest of the way this year.

[Eleven]

9 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

There is no denying what Cozens is doing in the Juniors right now...but many people were saying the exact same thing about Mitts 1 year after his draft.  Yet Mitts might not be ready for the NHL 3 years after his draft, let alone one.

Lazar tore it up the year after his draft, too.  Most of these guys do.  They're first-round picks for a reason.  I would prefer to see Cozens in Rochester.

Anyone know anything about Bogosian?

[woods-racer]

4 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I am.

Only as a Plan B option, but yeah, let's see what he's got the rest of the way this year.

If we go by playing time he could be considered 3a OR 3B.

Depending on the game score, opponent, and puck drop location will determine more of his playing time than just calling his line the second line.

I am fine with how HCRK has used him this year.

[woods-racer]

4 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Lazar tore it up the year after his draft, too.  Most of these guys do.  They're first-round picks for a reason.  I would prefer to see Cozens in Rochester.

Anyone know anything about Bogosian?

Bogosian’s agent, Darren Ferris, didn’t provide any hint of what his client’s plans are in a text to The Associated Press.

“I will be meeting with Zach over the next couple of days to discuss his next steps,” Ferris wrote.

 

This is as of yesterday. 

Appears we have a few more days to find out the rest of the story.

[Curt]

52 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Lazar tore it up the year after his draft, too.  Most of these guys do.  They're first-round picks for a reason.  I would prefer to see Cozens in Rochester.

Anyone know anything about Bogosian?

Cozens can’t play in Rochester next season.  Too young.  Unless the rules change.

[kas23]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

There is no denying what Cozens is doing in the Juniors right now...but many people were saying the exact same thing about Mitts 1 year after his draft.  Yet Mitts might not be ready for the NHL 3 years after his draft, let alone one.

I thought Mitts was slightly above average at Minnesota. He should’ve stayed an extra year. I’m not sure if it was because he wanted a paycheck or the Sabres convinced him of something unrealistic. 

[nfreeman]

5 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

My main point is assuming Cozens can be an effective 3C AND Tage or Mitts a successful 3RW is literally doing everything we've done wrong to this point, twice, again, with the same players

I agree that assuming 2 of them are going to handle real roles in the NHL next year is ill-advised.  It’ll be kinda disappointing if they don’t get one contributor out of the three of them though.  

[Brawndo]

The Sabres have suspended Bogosian he did not report to Rochester