Bogosian Signs a 1.3 Million Dollar Deal with Tampa

[tom webster]

35 minutes ago, darksabre said:

This is definitely not true. GMTM saw him as a top pair defenseman. 

I don’t think that’s true at all.

[WildCard]

1 minute ago, tom webster said:

I don’t think that’s true at all.

I think it is

[tom webster]

5 minutes ago, WildCard said:

I think it is

We will have to disagree for now but my memory of things is that Winnipeg doesn’t make that trade if Bogosian isn’t included and Murray thought he was salvageable and a good second pairing guy so it didn’t counter weight the upside that Murray saw in Kane.

[GASabresIUFAN]

12 minutes ago, tom webster said:

We will have to disagree for now but my memory of things is that Winnipeg doesn’t make that trade if Bogosian isn’t included and Murray thought he was salvageable and a good second pairing guy so it didn’t counter weight the upside that Murray saw in Kane.

And that is why TM isn’t our GM any longer and isn’t ever going to be one again. 

I’ve watch Bogo his entire career starting here in the Atl and never liked his game.  Bad trade when made and a worse trade now.  
 

Lesson no. 1 avoid trading for injured players or guys like Lehner and Bogo with long injury histories at a young age. 
 

Lesson no. 2. If you are on a rebuild keep your no. 1 picks and develop your prospects. 

Edited February 16, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[erickompositör72]

Just a personal anecdote- I remember watching Bogo w BUF soon after the trade. I was at a game in Jersey (believe Jagr was playing- every time he touched the puck I was terrified)

I remember Bogo skating hard, hitting hard, and having a heavy shot. Sadly that player doesn't exist anymore. I had high hopes for him after seeing him in that game.

Edited February 16, 2020 by erickompositör72

[woods-racer]

31 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

And that is why TM isn’t our GM any longer and isn’t ever going to be one again. 

I’ve watch Bogo his entire career starting here in the Atl and never liked his game.  Bad trade when made and a worse trade now.  
 

Lesson no. 1 avoid trading for injured players or guys like Lehner and Bogo with long injury histories at a young age. 
 

Lesson no. 2. If you are on a rebuild keep your no. 1 picks and develop your prospects. 

So far Botterill has been able to accomplish those easy directives, and given us an AHL team and coaches that show good promise. 

Yet we hate him almost as much as GMTM. Go figure?

Edited February 16, 2020 by woods-racer

[Andrew Amerk]

30 minutes ago, woods-racer said:

So far Botterill has been able to accomplish those easy directives, and given us an AHL team and coaches that show good promise. 

Yet we hate him almost as much as GMTM. Go figure?

I think most of us just want a winning team again. The GM is the easiest target when it’s not happening. 

[LTS]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

It's pro sports, you are judged on your record. It would have worked if only... doesn't count.

You make a plan, you execute it, you adjust on the fly as the unexpected occurs.

And you are accountable for the results.

 

Yes, I agree with this.  But do you know what the plan was?  Do I?

Since we don't know, we have to look at the actions of those involved and attempt to decipher the plan.  The plan, when Botterill came on, was not win right away. It was to establish competition across the organization.  That has happened.  The question that all of us want to know is when that translates into the next phase, winning more games and competing for the playoffs.  However unpopular it might be, my opinion is that this wasn't the year they were going to make the changes necessary to do that.  At least not at the expense of the next few seasons.

They weren't going to be better than Tampa and Boston and perhaps almost as competitive as the rest of the division without making changes.  At the moment, that appears to be where they stand.

So, you may be holding someone accountable for their record before the organization is holding them accountable. Of course you can do that, but that doesn't mean the GM isn't doing his job, it just means you don't like the job he's doing.  So, the entire point is allowing for the possibility that what you and others want and expect is not what the organization is working towards.  He could also suck as a GM.  I allow for that as well. Personally I don't have enough evidence to believe that yet.  It doesn't mean I won't at some point if the evidence presents itself.

 

[nfreeman]

6 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

John Vogl does a nice job of summarizing Bogosian's Sabres career.

And folks are wondering why  the rebuild, or rebuild of the rebuild isn't working.  

?

 

 

Brutal.

 

Separately:  excellent hockey talk in here boys.

IMHO, @dudacek is certainly right that we haven't seen any kind of shark-like strike from JB with his accumulated defense assets, that good forwards have changed hands while JB has been accumulating defensemen, that the Sabres are still dying for help in the top 6 and that JB is accountable for the outcome if his plan doesn't come to fruition.

OTOH, @LTS is right that Scandy and Bogo had pretty much zero value starting this season, while Risto's value was quite depressed.  Also, I think there was a reputable report that at least one of the good forwards did not want to come to Buffalo.

Moreover, the book is not yet written here.  I think Montour, Miller and Joker all look like they can be mainstays for a long time, and I'm more than happy to ride with them, Risto and Dahlin indefinitely.  That group plus the good D prospects are still available as currency to trade for a good forward -- and in the meantime they are improving in value.

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Anyone miss Bogo tonight?  The Sabres didn't. Jack didn't either.

[Doohicksie]

22 hours ago, pi2000 said:

moving into the TV booth as a color commentator for a western Canadian team and making guest appearances on HNIC and whatnot

Why western Canada?  He has New York State ties.

[Doohicksie]

12 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

I heard second hand from someone with knowledge that it was a retirement.

Then why didn't he just retire?

12 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I think he's going to bank on big steps from Dahlin and Jokiharju next season. 

I could see that paying off if he does it

I think we'll be okay if it's Montour that leaves, especially if we get that 2C we need.  At this point I don't want to lose Risto.

[dudacek]

17 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Then why didn't he just retire?

I think we'll be okay if it's Montour that leaves, especially if we get that 2C we need.  At this point I don't want to lose Risto.

I want to keep all four for as long as we can afford to. The 25- year-olds are legit top 4 guys and will be for a while.

if all goes well, they might be our second pair a few years down the road.

Edited February 17, 2020 by dudacek

[inkman]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Anyone miss Bogo tonight?  The Sabres didn't. Jack didn't either.

Has he played much the last 10 games?

[jsb]

Despite all the gloom and doom concerning our forwards, I think the Sabres are still counting on Cozens, Casey and Tage to be contributors down the road, besides picking up a UFA this offseason or something to good to be true becomes available, I don't think the Sabres are going to do much of anything and if they continue to go on a little run here, they may not be selling much this trade season either. I'm going to continue my optimistic view and say we aren't that far from contending again even if it isn't this year. In fact with better goalkeeping we may already be a playoff team this year IMO.

[Tondas]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

I think we'll be okay if it's Montour that leaves, especially if we get that 2C we need.  At this point I don't want to lose Risto.

Risto has played much better this year.  Not sure what changed or maybe he just matured, but I was ready last year to send him packing, but not anymore.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, inkman said:

Has he played much the last 10 games?

No, but this is the first game without him in the lockerroom.

[TrueBlueGED]

6 hours ago, jsb said:

Despite all the gloom and doom concerning our forwards, I think the Sabres are still counting on Cozens, Casey and Tage to be contributors down the road, besides picking up a UFA this offseason or something to good to be true becomes available, I don't think the Sabres are going to do much of anything and if they continue to go on a little run here, they may not be selling much this trade season either. I'm going to continue my optimistic view and say we aren't that far from contending again even if it isn't this year. In fact with better goalkeeping we may already be a playoff team this year IMO.

I actually don't think we're far from a playoff team either as far as the number of acquisitions required...it's just that those acquisitions (top-6 C and RW) are somewhat sizeable. I will say, that if the plan is waiting on Cozens, Mittelstadt, and Thompson....Botts is cooked. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said:

I actually don't think we're far from a playoff team either as far as the number of acquisitions required...it's just that those acquisitions (top-6 C and RW) are somewhat sizeable. I will say, that if the plan is waiting on Cozens, Mittelstadt, and Thompson....Botts is cooked. 

If we pencil in Cozens at 3rd C, re-sign Lazar for 4C and acquire a 2C now or in the off-season, MoJo moves to 2RW, Casey or Thompson become the 3RW.  Then opening becomes a 3LW which is much much easier to fill.  From a Jbot standpoint acquiring a 2C makes the rest of the dominoes fall into place. 

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

If we pencil in Cozens at 3rd C, re-sign Lazar for 4C and acquire a 2C now or in the off-season, MoJo moves to 2RW, Casey or Thompson become the 3RW.  Then opening becomes a 3LW which is much much easier to fill.  From a Jbot standpoint acquiring a 2C makes the rest of the dominoes fall into place. 

Never, ever pencil in someone who hasn't successfully played a role in the NHL, for a specific NHL role 

That is the root of all of the worst decisions Jason has made to date, and is the root of ZERO of his successful decisions

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Never, ever pencil in someone who hasn't successfully played a role in the NHL, for a specific NHL role 

That is the root of all of the worst decisions Jason has made to date, and is the root of ZERO of his successful decisions

Last I looked Lazar and MoJo have thrived in the roles I've assigned them.  Cozens is in the NHL next year and getting a 2C to protect him, unlike what Jbot did with Mitts, will help take the pressure off the kid.

[Scottysabres]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

If we pencil in Cozens at 3rd C, re-sign Lazar for 4C and acquire a 2C now or in the off-season, MoJo moves to 2RW, Casey or Thompson become the 3RW.  Then opening becomes a 3LW which is much much easier to fill.  From a Jbot standpoint acquiring a 2C makes the rest of the dominoes fall into place. 

Flagg addressed the woes of penciling in prospects like it's going to succeed. 

Moving MoJo to RW is equally as silly. And for good reason. Buffalo has only 4 right handed shot wingers, Reinhart, Okposo, Rodriguez and Lazar. They need to upgrade that RW right handed shot position along with 2C imo. After all, Okposo, Rodriguez and Lazar are not considered snipers by any stretch of the imagination, not to mention they use Rodriguez and Lazar at center from time to time.

The reason I bring this up is because I've seen on more than several occasions a left handed shot on the RW where because of their stick placement it actually cost them quality scoring chances. Is it that critical? Well, sometimes it can be the difference between Wins and Loses through moment in games and so on, so, yea, to me in any event, it is that critical.

[Zamboni]

So how long does Bogo have to decide if he’s driving down the 90 and putting on the Amerks sweater?

Because he hasn’t officially reported there yet. Right?

[North Buffalo]

So far when this team puts its mind to it all missing is a another goal scorer and 2C.  Feel bad for bogo but injuries killed him.

[Randall Flagg]

25 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Last I looked Lazar and MoJo have thrived in the roles I've assigned them.  Cozens is in the NHL next year and getting a 2C to protect him, unlike what Jbot did with Mitts, will help take the pressure off the kid.

1.) Mojo is an awful 2C. He's a good middle six winger, which is why Krueger has moved him there. He was good at 2C for about 10 games and then his line got blasted in the ensuing months 
2.) Lazar is currently manning a line that has had a nice string of games, but Lazar at 2C for a full season would be another disaster for the position for the Sabres, if you want them to do anything that season
3.) I could have made this clearer, but I mean that you should never put a player who has never had any role whatsoever  into a role where you require a certain level of play. This means that of course you can allow a fresh young prospect to make the team, and see where he settles in effectively after he's proven to be a top 12 forward in your organization. But you should never take a player who hasn't shown success at the NHL level and say "you're going to be #C or #LW." This is how you kill prospects and your season simultaneously, it's why Tage and Mitts have both experienced multi-year setbacks in development, and why the Sabres have a cavernous hole at center that has kept them from making the next step

Edited February 17, 2020 by Randall Flagg