Buffalo Bills: 2020-2021

[That Aud Smell]

3 hours ago, sabills said:

This and the wideouts are my one remaining concern. 3 wide outs who each have a 100ft catch radius, that doesn't equal long term success. 

I hear you on enjoying this ride.

I don't agree with the above. None of the top 3 WRs are big catch radius guys, nor IMO has the success of those WRs this year been based on catches where they were bailing out Allen. 

I reckon that Gabriel Davis, the rookie, has some of that to his game.

[nfreeman]

Diggs and Beasley were both outstanding last night.  And I agree that the 2 of them, plus Brown, have played a major role in JA's success this year.  But I also think all of the elite QBs have elite receivers.

[SwampD]

12 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Diggs and Beasley were both outstanding last night.  And I agree that the 2 of them, plus Brown, have played a major role in JA's success this year.  But I also think all of the elite QBs have elite receivers.

Brown is not elite.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Is Allen already the best QB to ever play for the Bills? Loaded question to be sure, but the evidence is mounting.

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

Brown is not elite.

Nor is Beasley, IMO. Diggs is elite. Brown and Beasley complement the corps quite nicely by doing different things extremely well. Davis's ability to contribute as a mid-round rookie has been one of the nicer surprises of the season.

59 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Is Allen already the best QB to ever play for the Bills? Loaded question to be sure, but the evidence is mounting.

Well, there's evidence to support the argument. I'm not sure it's mounting yet. We need time to pass in order for that to happen.

[SwampD]

15 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Nor is Beasley, IMO. Diggs is elite. Brown and Beasley complement the corps quite nicely by doing different things extremely well. Davis's ability to contribute as a mid-round rookie has been one of the nicer surprises of the season.

Well, there's evidence to support the argument. I'm not sure it's mounting yet. We need time to pass in order for that to happen.

What does Brown do extremely well? I think he's completely replaceable, even upgradable.

[That Aud Smell]

4 minutes ago, SwampD said:

What does Brown do extremely well? I think he's completely replaceable, even upgradable.

I'm not sure what to tell you. When healthy, he has the speed needed to take the top off a defence (always an important thing to have). He's also a good to very good intermediate route runner. Dependable hands. Runs well in traffic. Adequate run blocker. I don't know the "x, y, z" thing well enough, but, to me, he's a very good #2 WR.

[nfreeman]

While I agree that Brown and Beasley aren't "elite" in a vacuum, I think Brown is elite or borderline elite as a #2 WR, Beasley is similarly elite/borderline as a #3 and the 1-2-3 combo of Diggs, Brown and Beasley is an elite top 3.

[SwampD]

3 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I'm not sure what to tell you. When healthy, he has the speed needed to take the top off a defence (always an important thing to have). He's also a good to very good intermediate route runner. Dependable hands. Runs well in traffic. Adequate run blocker. I don't know the "x, y, z" thing well enough, but, to me, he's a very good #2 WR.

He does not have dependable hands. He just doesn't. He drops way too many balls that hit him in the hands (rewatch the KC game.)

I don't think he runs very good routes either. He rarely, if ever, gets any separation.

I just don't get what people see in him. Let's hope Gabe Davis stepping up will force him to be better.

[That Aud Smell]

9 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

the 1-2-3 combo of Diggs, Brown and Beasley is an elite top 3.

fo shizzle.

8 minutes ago, SwampD said:

He does not have dependable hands. He just doesn't. He drops way too many balls that hit him in the hands (rewatch the KC game.)

I don't think he runs very good routes either. He rarely, if ever, gets any separation.

I just don't get what people see in him. Let's hope Gabe Davis stepping up will force him to be better.

His drop rate has been about the same as, say, Julio Jones for the time he's been in Buffalo. He's got good hands.

In terms of route running, maybe I should qualify that by saying that he runs good routes for a guy who was more known as a speed guy.

I also like his football IQ. He seems to see what the QB sees, and is therefore a reliable option on audibled pass plays.

You're entitled to your opinion on him, of course.

[GASabresIUFAN]

51 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Nor is Beasley, IMO. Diggs is elite. Brown and Beasley complement the corps quite nicely by doing different things extremely well. Davis's ability to contribute as a mid-round rookie has been one of the nicer surprises of the season.

Well, there's evidence to support the argument. I'm not sure it's mounting yet. We need time to pass in order for that to happen.

Jim Kelly is no. 1 right now.  4 Super Bowl appearances, HOF career solidify that spot.  However, Allen is doing things on the field in his 3rd season that even Kelly never accomplished, such as last night.  What is amazing is that last night was his 3rd such game this season.  The first Bill QB ever to have 3 300 yd 4TD games in a season.  Fitz did it twice and so did Kelly.  Honestly, I have never seen a Bills QB as sharp as Allen looked last night.  He literally destroyed the SF secondary regardless of coverage type.  Truly amazing.

[PromoTheRobot]

30 minutes ago, SwampD said:

He does not have dependable hands. He just doesn't. He drops way too many balls that hit him in the hands (rewatch the KC game.)

I don't think he runs very good routes either. He rarely, if ever, gets any separation.

I just don't get what people see in him. Let's hope Gabe Davis stepping up will force him to be better.

You're talking about John Brown? I couldn't disagree more. Brown is elite and once he's healthy, for the playoffs, the Bills will be a legit championship contender.

[SwampD]

50 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

fo shizzle.

His drop rate has been about the same as, say, Julio Jones for the time he's been in Buffalo. He's got good hands.

In terms of route running, maybe I should qualify that by saying that he runs good routes for a guy who was more known as a speed guy.

I also like his football IQ. He seems to see what the QB sees, and is therefore a reliable option on audibled pass plays.

You're entitled to your opinion on him, of course.

His best two years. I think Josh has made him better than he is.

Not really sure what that clip is showing me,... maybe that Dabol made a good play call?

I will say he has thrown a couple nice TDs, though.

 

[#freejame]

I agree that Brown is very good and borderline elite. Him being healthy for the playoffs is going to be dangerous. 

I also agree he is upgradable and I think that will be in the form of a year 3 Gabriel Davis—assuming the Bills don’t release Brown after this season first. 

[JujuFish]

I honestly can't believe people think Brown is elite or even close to it.

[sabresparaavida]

1 hour ago, JujuFish said:

I honestly can't believe people think Brown is elite or even close to it.

Last year, John Brown had 1130 yards receiving, good for 16th among receivers. That would put him as an average #1 receiver. I am not saying he is a #1 receiver, but how many #2 receivers are better?

[spndnchz]

Yay pick apart them bill(small B) guys. They all suck. /

[nfreeman]

3 hours ago, #freejame said:

I agree that Brown is very good and borderline elite. Him being healthy for the playoffs is going to be dangerous. 

I also agree he is upgradable and I think that will be in the form of a year 3 Gabriel Davis—assuming the Bills don’t release Brown after this season first. 

I agree with all of this except that I am skeptical that Davis will be better than Brown at that point.  I think a healthy Brown is much better than Davis and I am optimistic that he will be healthy next year and hopefully in time for the playoffs this year.

[That Aud Smell]

4 hours ago, SwampD said:

His best two years. I think Josh has made him better than he is.

Not really sure what that clip is showing me,... maybe that Dabol made a good play call?

I will say he has thrown a couple nice TDs, though.

 

Allen is responsible for Brown’s improved drop rate? Again, there’s nothing constructive I can say in response to that.

The clip shows an audible that required the QB to be in sync with his WR in an instant. The result was an easy score. 

I’m certainly not here saying he’s elite. I’m saying he’s a very good WR2, in Daboll’s system.

I think it’s fair to want someone in the 11 personnel who’s a bigger target. Davis looks to fit the part - what body control that kid has. 

[nfreeman]

There isn't enough speed if the top 3 is Diggs, Davis and Beasley.

[JujuFish]

33 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

Last year, John Brown had 1130 yards receiving, good for 16th among receivers. That would put him as an average #1 receiver. I am not saying he is a #1 receiver, but how many #2 receivers are better?

He was also the #1 receiver on our team last year, and so Allen gave him volume, like Allen is doing with Diggs this year.

Elite receivers aren't #2.

[WildCard]

Allen has already surpassed his completion total, yards total, and throwing TD total from last year, all while throwing less attempts and less interceptions and improving his completion percentage by 11.1%

[Taro T]

Are we really calling the Bills' #2 & #3 receivers elite?  Yes, they are at the top of their tier & might even be a poor man's #1 & #2 on some teams.  But calling them elite seems to be akin to saying somebody happens to be the Jests' MVP.  If the talent pool somebody is compared to is small enough, they can be at the top of that list; but IMHO to be elite they need to be a Hopkins or a Diggs - at the top of the list when everybody is included.

Heck, Gabe Davis might be the best #4 receiver in the league, too.  Amazing how far that unit has improved from 2 years ago when it was arguably the worst in the league.

[GASabresIUFAN]

The receivers

1) Beasley - 5-8, 174 age 31

2) Gabe Davis - 6-2, 210 age 21

3) Diggs - 6-0, 191, age 27

4) Kumerow - 6-4, 209 age 28

5) McKenzie - 5-8, 173, age 25

6) Roberts - 5-11, 195, age 32

7) Hopkins - 6-3, 201, age 22

8.) Brown - 5-11, 178, age 30

If I'm projecting this group next year, I don't think Brown makes the team.  Diggs is the primary, Beasley the slot,  Davis is the size and speed.  McKenzie is the change of pace.  Browns injury history and lack of size works against him going forward.

 

[North Buffalo]

6 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I agree with all of this except that I am skeptical that Davis will be better than Brown at that point.  I think a healthy Brown is much better than Davis and I am optimistic that he will be healthy next year and hopefully in time for the playoffs this year.

Different kind of players... Brown pure speed, route runner...McKenzie is closer if he can keep developing. Davis big possession receiver with great hands and deceptive speed.  Bills will need another speedster.  I hope they keep both