Jbot needs to go

[Curt]

Ron Hextall would be an interesting potential replacement to consider.

[LGR4GM]

18 minutes ago, Tondas said:

JBOT (or the new GM plan).

1.  Get players in that can make Buffalo proud (and buy some time before rioting).  Tough guys, SOB's, fighters.  We won't win but it will buy some time with the passion and energy that Key Bank Center and the city needs.  This is the Sabre's identity.

2.  Draft well.  Prioritize big wingers that can score (or at least have speed).  Most goals are within 10 feet of the net.  Pin point accuracy not needed.

3.  Stop with the Sweden connection and look at the WHL.

4.  Sign FA's that augment number 1 until draft prospects are ready.

5.  Get a coach the will say, "Run' em" when needed.

6.  Fore check, hit, get puck to Jack, Skinner, and Olofsson.  Repeat as necessary.

7.  Get a first rate goalie.

8.  Don't touch the "Prince of Wales Trophy."

9.  Lift the Cup and pass it around.

This is just as bad as what Botterill is doing now. You can't ignore leagues of talent. They need to be able to normalize forward scoring and play across leagues and also account for defenders across leagues. They simply ignore the CHL because they only get 2 years of dev before contract time and they balk at that. It is stupid. 

[Stoner]

I doubt any GM can overcome having to work in this scenario:

"We're in constant dialogue. The dialogue goes to what are the solutions? What are we doing to get better?" Botterill speaking about his relationship with the owner(s).

Constant? You have to talk to the dimwit owner(s) constantly about what the solutions are? The annoyance of having to do that is the least of the problem here. What does Kerry say? "Oh, I dunno. What about this?"? People over the years try to tell me this is the way all owners behave. I call hearty BS on that.

HIRE GOOD PEOPLE AND GET OUT OF THEIR WAY!!!!!!!!

https://buffalonews.com/2020/02/04/buffalo-sabres-nhl-jason-botterill-terry-pegula-kim-pegula-ralph-krueger/

[GASabresIUFAN]

The ignoring CHL think is BS. Cozens is from the CHL.  He has taken other kids, Pekar and UPL and placed them in the CHL. He also isn’t adverse to signing prospects before the 2 years such as Pekar and others.  

Everyone screams that GMs should take BPA.  Here is a GM that has taken BPA based on his draft board and people scream he didn’t take the guy they wanted,  he didn’t draft forwards and he didn’t draft Canadians.  Enough.  No one here has any idea of how Jbots picks will turn out long term. We are still just beginning to see some of the fruit from the 2014 draft in VO and Johansson. Development takes time.

Jbot also isn’t going anywhere.  This will be his first year without the cap constraints of caused by TM and his awful decisions.  The Pegulas are unlikely to rip the organization apart for a 3rd time. This time they need to stock out Jbot’s plan and see what happens.  

I agree with everyone that this forward mess is on Jbot.  He needed to get centers and didn’t realize that Mitts and MoJo weren’t you for the task.  I doubt he makes the same mistake twice.  He is to smart a guy to fail again.  Cozens is likely part of the solution but he must acquire 2 more quality centers.

Sadly this has been an organizational problem for two decades +.  Before Jack, Derek Roy was the last competent scoring center drafted and developed by the Sabres.  Before him? Turgeon?

Briere, Connolly, Drury, ROR etc. all came from elsewhere.  Time to find that guy again. That is priority one.  

I also lay much of much of the problem at RK’s feet.  He kept Reinhart stapled to Jack, gave Skinner almost no time with Jack even with VO hurt.  Truthfully I don’t think he has done a good job handling the resources he was given.  

Still it comes down to Jbot’s failure to address the problem he created by trading ROR.  Part of that was cap issues but mostly it was not finding another vet center to step into that role. 
 

Get the right 2c and all of the sudden Sheary, Vesey, Skinner, MoJo and Frolik all become more effective.  

Edited February 5, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The ignoring CHL think is BS. Cozens is from the CHL.  He has taken other kids, Pekar and UPL and placed them in the CHL. He also isn’t adverse to signing prospects before the 2 years such as Pekar and others.  

Everyone screams that GMs should take BPA.  Here is a GM that has taken BPA based on his draft board and people scream he didn’t take the guy he wanted,  he didn’t draft forwards and he didn’t draft Canadians.  Enough.  No one here has any idea of how Jbots picks will turn out long term. We are still just beginning to see some of the fruit from the 2014 draft in VO and Johansson. Development takes time.

Jbot also isn’t going anywhere.  This will be his first year without the cap constraints of caused by TM and his awful decisions.  The Pegulas are unlikely to rip the organization apart for a 3rd time. This time they need to stock out Jbot’s plan and see what happens.  

I agree with everyone that this forward mess is on Jbot.  He needed to get centers and didn’t realize that Mitts and MoJo weren’t you for the task.  I doubt he makes the same mistake twice.  He is to smart a guy to fail again.  Cozens is likely part of the solution but he must acquire 2 more quality centers.

Sadly this has been an organizational problem for two decades +.  Before Jack, Derek Roy was the last competent scoring center drafted and developed by the Sabres.  Before him? Turgeon?

Briere, Connolly, Drury, ROR etc. all came from elsewhere.  Time to find that guy again. That is priority one.  

I also lay much of much of the problem at RK’s feet.  He kept Reinhart stapled to Jack, gave Skinner almost no time with Jack even with VO hurt.  Truthfully I don’t think he has done a good job handling the resources he was given.  

Still it comes down to Jbot’s failure to address the problem he created by trading ROR.  Part of that was cap issues but mostly it was not finding another vet center to step into that role. 

He has taken 1 player in 18 picks over 3 drafts from the CHL. Pekar chose to go to the CHL. UPL needed NA seasoning. 

It isn't BS. The GM has said that he values the extra dev time. 

 

TO the 2nd bolded. Samuelsson is a bottom pairing defender and Johnson might turn into a 2nd pairing guy. They were 100% not great picks, Johnson especially so with what was on the board.

 

Third bolded. Botterill caused most of his current cap problems. Sheary, Vesey, Hunwick, Frolik, Erod, Sobotka were all players that contribute next to nothing and waste cap that Botterill himself acquired. 

Edited February 5, 2020 by LGR4GM

[Randall Flagg]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He has taken 1 player in 18 picks over 3 drafts from the CHL.

Woof

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He has taken 1 player in 18 picks over 3 drafts from the CHL. Pekar chose to go to the CHL. UPL needed NA seasoning. 

It isn't BS. The GM has said that he values the extra dev time. 

 

TO the 2nd bolded. Samuelsson is a bottom pairing defender and Johnson might turn into a 2nd pairing guy. They were 100% not great picks, Johnson especially so with what was on the board.

Again that is your opinion and may be right, but you don’t know that for a fact and you have no idea what criteria his draft team used to create the list.

 To evaluate a pick you have to wait until that kid turns pro and you see where he fits.

I am firmly against BPA because I think it’s a sham.  There is no universal list and every team uses different criteria to create their list.  I believe in need based drafting and making sure your organization has guys at all positions moving up through the organization.  I believe this because after the top 2-5 players and incremental difference in player scores means so little that you might as well the player you need.  

Also this organization as I have laid out previously is very young, both in Buffalo and deeper in the organization.  

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Again that is your opinion and may be right, but you don’t know that for a fact and you have no idea what criteria his draft team used to create the list.

 To evaluate a pick you have to wait until that kid turns pro and you see where he fits.

I am firmly against BPA because I think it’s a sham.  There is no universal list and every team uses different criteria to create their list.  I believe in need based drafting and making sure your organization has guys at all positions moving up through the organization.  I believe this because after the top 2-5 players and incremental difference in player scores means so little that you might as well the player you need.  

Also this organization as I have laid out previously is very young, both in Buffalo and deeper in the organization.  

I got news for you. This team isn't using needs based drafting. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

I got news for you. This team isn't using needs based drafting. 

I agree. Jbot is clearly using BPA based on his list. 

Edited February 5, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

19 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I agree. Jbot is clearly using BPA based on his list. 

lol yes in the sense that he values defenders and non CHL players a level above. 

[dudacek]

In December a firing seemed far-fetched. They were trending in the right direction and seemed poised for a 20 point improvement, the owners seemed to like him.

Then the complete and utter collapse in the new year and the fan revolt made it far-fetched to see any way he could be kept when the season closed.

I’m talking about Phil.

Will it be déjà vu with Botterill like it was with Housley?

[Kruppstahl]

I legitimately tuned in today to some WNY media outlets to see if there is any interesting news, like Botterill getting fired.

I have done that a few times in the last few weeks.

I always go into it thinking the same thing: "Nah, it's a long shot at best...but you never know, and my God, last night was an embarrassment!"

Unfortunately, I never seem to find the news I'm looking for.

?

[Stoner]

21 minutes ago, dudacek said:

In December a firing seemed far-fetched. They were trending in the right direction and seemed poised for a 20 point improvement, the owners seemed to like him.

Then the complete and utter collapse in the new year and the fan revolt made it far-fetched to see any way he could be kept when the season closed.

I’m talking about Phil.

Will it be déjà vu with Botterill like it was with Housley?

I like what you did there, Mr. Sneaky.

[freester]

3 hours ago, shrader said:

Kane was never going to stay.

No evidence whatsoever for this statement. In fact he said he was upset he never received an offer. 

[LGR4GM]

And how many goals would Kane have playing on the 2nd line with Johansson and the right wing of the week? 

[shrader]

Just now, freester said:

No evidence whatsoever for this statement. In fact he said he was upset he never received an offer. 

Sure, there's no evidence, but everything people always said about him pointed towards him being the guy who would move on to a bigger market.  If that's who he is, that's fine.  He had the ability to do so after that season.  And being upset about not receiving an offer doesn't mean he wanted to stay.  It could very easily just be talk and it could also be a pride thing.

[freester]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

He has taken 1 player in 18 picks over 3 drafts from the CHL. Pekar chose to go to the CHL. UPL needed NA seasoning. 

It isn't BS. The GM has said that he values the extra dev time. 

 

TO the 2nd bolded. Samuelsson is a bottom pairing defender and Johnson might turn into a 2nd pairing guy. They were 100% not great picks, Johnson especially so with what was on the board.

 

Third bolded. Botterill caused most of his current cap problems. Sheary, Vesey, Hunwick, Frolik, Erod, Sobotka were all players that contribute next to nothing and waste cap that Botterill himself acquired. 

And Botteril got extremely lucky that Berglunds large cap hit suddenly disappeared.

  Botteril must be terminated immediately 

[freester]

1 minute ago, shrader said:

Sure, there's no evidence, but everything people always said about him pointed towards him being the guy who would move on to a bigger market.  If that's who he is, that's fine.  He had the ability to do so after that season.  And being upset about not receiving an offer doesn't mean he wanted to stay.  It could very easily just be talk and it could also be a pride thing.

He had a very good relationship with Jack and Sam as well as GMTM. He just wanted a good contract. When Botteril was hired he decided that Kane was the problem and made no attempt to resign him. 

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The ignoring CHL think is BS. Cozens is from the CHL.  He has taken other kids, Pekar and UPL and placed them in the CHL. He also isn’t adverse to signing prospects before the 2 years such as Pekar and others.  

Everyone screams that GMs should take BPA.  Here is a GM that has taken BPA based on his draft board and people scream he didn’t take the guy they wanted,  he didn’t draft forwards and he didn’t draft Canadians.  Enough.  No one here has any idea of how Jbots picks will turn out long term. We are still just beginning to see some of the fruit from the 2014 draft in VO and Johansson. Development takes time.

Jbot also isn’t going anywhere.  This will be his first year without the cap constraints of caused by TM and his awful decisions.  The Pegulas are unlikely to rip the organization apart for a 3rd time. This time they need to stock out Jbot’s plan and see what happens.  

I agree with everyone that this forward mess is on Jbot.  He needed to get centers and didn’t realize that Mitts and MoJo weren’t you for the task.  I doubt he makes the same mistake twice.  He is to smart a guy to fail again.  Cozens is likely part of the solution but he must acquire 2 more quality centers.

Sadly this has been an organizational problem for two decades +.  Before Jack, Derek Roy was the last competent scoring center drafted and developed by the Sabres.  Before him? Turgeon?

Briere, Connolly, Drury, ROR etc. all came from elsewhere.  Time to find that guy again. That is priority one.  

I also lay much of much of the problem at RK’s feet.  He kept Reinhart stapled to Jack, gave Skinner almost no time with Jack even with VO hurt.  Truthfully I don’t think he has done a good job handling the resources he was given.  

Still it comes down to Jbot’s failure to address the problem he created by trading ROR.  Part of that was cap issues but mostly it was not finding another vet center to step into that role. 
 

Get the right 2c and all of the sudden Sheary, Vesey, Skinner, MoJo and Frolik all become more effective.  

It most assuredly is not. The Sabres don’t select CHL players outside the top few picks. Botterill has stated the development league factors in after that. It’s not a coincidence we’ve taken zero CHL players besides Cozens, and by far the least of any team in that stretch. 

It’s so ridiculous that he’s in essence purposely, significantly shrinking the talent pool he’s choosing from. 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Thorny

[triumph_communes]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

He has taken 1 player in 18 picks over 3 drafts from the CHL. Pekar chose to go to the CHL. UPL needed NA seasoning. 

It isn't BS. The GM has said that he values the extra dev time. 

 

TO the 2nd bolded. Samuelsson is a bottom pairing defender and Johnson might turn into a 2nd pairing guy. They were 100% not great picks, Johnson especially so with what was on the board.

 

Third bolded. Botterill caused most of his current cap problems. Sheary, Vesey, Hunwick, Frolik, Erod, Sobotka were all players that contribute next to nothing and waste cap that Botterill himself acquired. 

The GMs who picked immediately after Botterill in those 3 drafts picked a CHL player 3/18 times.

 

You're just angry to be angry.

[LGR4GM]

15 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

The GMs who picked immediately after Botterill in those 3 drafts picked a CHL player 3/18 times.

 

You're just angry to be angry.

You know I if my opinions on the draft were worth anything I would get paid for them right? 

Also you know the GM has stated he has a biased against the CHL? So I am angry because I am angry. There is a block feature if you want to use it. Might make your reading of Sabrespace more enjoyable. 

Now to the bolded. I think you are missing the point. It isn't we have to take more from the CHL. It is we are ignoring it. Again, Botterill has mentioned the CHL bias and stated his preference for the longer dev time afforded to other players from other leagues. The numbers show this. What the team directly after us did doesn't impact what we did or how we are drafting. 

Edited February 5, 2020 by LGR4GM

[CallawaySabres]

I was thinking for this first time ever today, I may not even be a fan of this team anymore. I don't go to games, can't sell center ice tickets for $25, hate the players, hate the style of play.....There is NOTHING I like about this team and they don't occupy and of my time anymore. My kids tell me to change the channel because they think it's total boredom to watch and they know they will lose. I would have considered myself one of the biggest fans in that arena up until a few years ago and now, nothing..could care less.

[spndnchz]

1 minute ago, CallawaySabres said:

I was thinking for this first time ever today, I may not even be a fan of this team anymore. I don't go to games, can't sell center ice tickets for $25, hate the players, hate the style of play.....There is NOTHING I like about this team and they don't occupy and of my time anymore. My kids tell me to change the channel because they think it's total boredom to watch and they know they will lose. I would have considered myself one of the biggest fans in that arena up until a few years ago and now, nothing..could care less.

Getting close myself.  I remember the nights I’d be glued to the TV 30 minutes before the game watching the pre-game show. Switching cable providers because they didn’t carry MSG. Watching the game at least twice, once live and the second time over breakfast. Wearing your Sabres jersey to work was cool and allowed without anyone pointing.

[LGR4GM]

I remember rushing dinner to make sure I could watch this opening and waiting for Jeanneret to say "Wellllllllllllllllll have we got a game for you tonight...." or whatever intro he would have. 

 

[triumph_communes]

26 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You know I if my opinions on the draft were worth anything I would get paid for them right? 

Also you know the GM has stated he has a biased against the CHL? So I am angry because I am angry. There is a block feature if you want to use it. Might make your reading of Sabrespace more enjoyable. 

Now to the bolded. I think you are missing the point. It isn't we have to take more from the CHL. It is we are ignoring it. Again, Botterill has mentioned the CHL bias and stated his preference for the longer dev time afforded to other players from other leagues. The numbers show this. What the team directly after us did doesn't impact what we did or how we are drafting. 

no, the point is that there’s zero evidence that GMs were hopping for joy because Botterill didn’t pick a CHL player. Otherwise you would see a much higher number.