Jbot needs to go

[PerreaultForever]

55 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

they had great goaltending and PK?  

In a sense yes. ROR kills penalties well in St. Louis. Lehner has been outstanding away from Buffalo. Perhaps the problems are not in the individuals, but rather the culture they play in, how they are supported and/or developed. This goes back quite a while. Probably before Tyler Meyers, but definitely from there and on. 

Players come to Buffalo and play worse. Players leave Buffalo and are mostly better than they were. Heck, Columbus is likely going to make the playoffs and they have Nathan Gerbe in their line up. Right now, DesLauriers would be an upgrade over E-Rod. Other than Jokiharju, who Chicago clearly gave up on too fast, can you think of anyone on the roster who has been a clear upgrade via trade and/or is better here than he was wherever he came from? I can't. They are all worse. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Ruff Around The Edges said:

The O'Reilly thing is what it is: He wanted out, it was the return that was the issue, and always remember how it looked at the time. OReilly's contract was looking a little albatross-ish and lost his passion for the game. Cant pin ALL of this on JBot but Botterill is not doing himself any favors.

I don't disagree, and on paper at the time the trade seemed okay, but it clearly wasn't, and it's his job and why he gets paid the big bucks so he also has to shoulder the blame. I mean in Philly they fired Hextall (who had done a great job fixing the cap and drafted really well) simply because he wanted to keep his kid goalie prospect in the minors another year and wouldn't panic fire his coach so botching a huge trade and you get a pass? I don't think so. 

My own view is similar to many others. Hire a veteran hockey Czar above him. 

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't disagree, and on paper at the time the trade seemed okay, but it clearly wasn't, and it's his job and why he gets paid the big bucks so he also has to shoulder the blame. I mean in Philly they fired Hextall (who had done a great job fixing the cap and drafted really well) simply because he wanted to keep his kid goalie prospect in the minors another year and wouldn't panic fire his coach so botching a huge trade and you get a pass? I don't think so. 

My own view is similar to many others. Hire a veteran hockey Czar above him. 

The trade looked like trash on paper. Sobotka was garbage, Berglund was mediocre, Tage was completely unproven and not one of their top prospects, and the pick was top 10 protected. Just because you like gritty guys that are tall doesn't mean they are good at hockey or that trade wasn't a complete disaster. 

[freester]

2 hours ago, Ruff Around The Edges said:

The O'Reilly thing is what it is: He wanted out, it was the return that was the issue, and always remember how it looked at the time. OReilly's contract was looking a little albatross-ish and lost his passion for the game. Cant pin ALL of this on JBot but Botterill is not doing himself any favors.

Stop trying to defend Botteril. He is utterly incompetent in every respect. He is among the worst GMs in NHL history  Terrible trades, terrible contracts, terrible coaching hires. Every minute he is still here sets us up for future failure. I can’t wait till he is finally fired. 

[Curt]

Since this is a fire Botterill thread, can we bring up some possible options for his replacement?  It makes for more interesting discussion than FIRE BOTTS!!!!!  IMO

If we are smart enough to know Botterill is terrible, we should be smart enough to have some potential plans for after he is fired.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

The trade looked like trash on paper. Sobotka was garbage, Berglund was mediocre, Tage was completely unproven and not one of their top prospects, and the pick was top 10 protected. Just because you like gritty guys that are tall doesn't mean they are good at hockey or that trade wasn't a complete disaster. 

That's a hindsight analysis. maybe at the time you said it was garbage, I applaud you for getting it right if you did, but most so called experts and analysts at the time thought it was a good for both teams deal. Sobotka was considered a good 2 way forward and not the garbage it is easy to label him as now (although our second line was decent at the start of the year and hasn't been squat since his injury, but whatever, he's garbage). I wasn't familiar with Berglund but he was playing regularly in St. Louis and Tage, because of his size, was considered as a future NHLer. But of course, hindsight is 20-20. 

In any event, we're not on opposite sides of the real issue here which is that JBot has to be held accountable for that deal. 

[PerreaultForever]

3 minutes ago, Curt said:

Since this is a fire Botterill thread, can we bring up some possible options for his replacement?  It makes for more interesting discussion than FIRE BOTTS!!!!!  IMO

If we are smart enough to know Botterill is terrible, we should be smart enough to have some potential plans for after he is fired.

My own top wish is to pry Rick Dudley away from Carolina and make him an overlord above JBot with whatever title you want that to be and then he can bring in all his own people and replace JBot etc. (and also revitalize alumni participation).

Babcock and Gallant as coach maybe - whichever one doesn't go to Seattle. 

 

[#freejame]

17 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

My own top wish is to pry Rick Dudley away from Carolina and make him an overlord above JBot with whatever title you want that to be and then he can bring in all his own people and replace JBot etc. (and also revitalize alumni participation).

Babcock and Gallant as coach maybe - whichever one doesn't go to Seattle. 

 

Do you really think Babs will coach again after the Marner incident because I don’t

[Pimlach]

On 1/28/2020 at 9:27 PM, Thorny said:

I've been preaching this for a year. It was the plan. To the detriment of the franchise, I believe. 

I just can’t believe that a professional team would make a plan such as a 4 year rebuild, and then slow roll things to make it 4 years.  As if there is something special about next year ?  
 

How much can JBot do in the offseason?    I don’t trust him to make a big trade.  

[Rico7]

50 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

My own top wish is to pry Rick Dudley away from Carolina and make him an overlord above JBot with whatever title you want that to be and then he can bring in all his own people and replace JBot etc. (and also revitalize alumni participation).

Babcock and Gallant as coach maybe - whichever one doesn't go to Seattle. 

 

Yes to Dudley all day. No to old man Babcock 

[Broken Ankles]

4 minutes ago, Rico7 said:

Yes to Dudley all day. No to old man Babcock 

Pretty sure Dudley is a $hite-Ton older than Babcock. By like 15 years. 

[PerreaultForever]

47 minutes ago, #freejame said:

Do you really think Babs will coach again after the Marner incident because I don’t

Probably not. I'd hire them though.  The idea of him here against Toronto.........I'd love to see a battle for the bruce pensinsula (or whatever it gets labelled) akin to the battle for Alberta. Real hatred between T-dot and Buffalo would be awesome. 

Dudley could hire whoever he wanted though.

26 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I just can’t believe that a professional team would make a plan such as a 4 year rebuild, and then slow roll things to make it 4 years.  As if there is something special about next year ?  
 

How much can JBot do in the offseason?    I don’t trust him to make a big trade.  

It's all media rubbish. "Trust in the process" and all that stuff is just loser talk and excuses to keep fans coming. I'm sure JBot thought we'd be much better than we are this year. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

On 1/29/2020 at 10:53 AM, Radar said:

Ok the plan is for next season? Just how? Free agency? You don't construct  team in one off season.

Nobody is asking him to "construct" an entire team in one off-season. He needs to fill/ up-grade a few positions and should have the cap space to do it. FA is not the only way to go.

[LGR4GM]

13 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

That's a hindsight analysis. maybe at the time you said it was garbage, I applaud you for getting it right if you did, but most so called experts and analysts at the time thought it was a good for both teams deal. Sobotka was considered a good 2 way forward and not the garbage it is easy to label him as now (although our second line was decent at the start of the year and hasn't been squat since his injury, but whatever, he's garbage). I wasn't familiar with Berglund but he was playing regularly in St. Louis and Tage, because of his size, was considered as a future NHLer. But of course, hindsight is 20-20. 

In any event, we're not on opposite sides of the real issue here which is that JBot has to be held accountable for that deal. 

Show me proof of this. I don't believe it. Anyone who had even a rudimentary analytics understanding looked at that trade and barfed. It was all, well Tage and that first have to big for this to pay off. 

Sobotka was garbage. A good 2 way forward is ROR. 

If the only reason Tage was considered a future NHL player was because he was tall than that is completely stupid. Logan Stanley comes to mind. Being tall or big on its own doesn't mean anything. 

Edited February 4, 2020 by LGR4GM

[#freejame]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Show me proof of this. I don't believe it. Anyone who had even a rudimentary analytics understanding looked at that trade and barfed. It was all, well Tage and that first have to big for this to pay off. 

While in general I agree with you on all of this, I do seem to remember a few from TSN (?) saying it was a haul for Buffalo. Not many, but there’s always a few crazies. 

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, #freejame said:

While in general I agree with you on all of this, I do seem to remember a few from TSN (?) saying it was a haul for Buffalo. Not many, but there’s always a few crazies. 

Just googled some stuff. As I remembered Berglund and Sobotka were largely dismissed as part of the trade and the future pieces tage and the 1st were the good parts for Buffalo. Sadly Botterill was an idiot with his use of that first and also with how they kept Tage up all last year even though he was at one point the worst forward on the team. 

[Randall Flagg]

17 hours ago, Ruff Around The Edges said:

The O'Reilly thing is what it is: He wanted out, it was the return that was the issue, and always remember how it looked at the time. OReilly's contract was looking a little albatross-ish and lost his passion for the game. Cant pin ALL of this on JBot but Botterill is not doing himself any favors.

This is not what it is - I have seen this claim become the norm over the last year and a half. I have asked every single person here and on hfboards I've seen make the claim to provide a valid/legitimate source that proves he did ask to be traded. This has probably happened 15 times now - are you going to be the first person to be able to come up with the proof? Because not one other person has produced anything. 

I certainly think it's POSSIBLE that he requested a trade, but that information has never been made available to the public. I do know that in his own words, he wanted to be back, and in his father's words,  ROR called him at one point, incredibly upset that "they think it's my fault, Dad, they think I'm the problem" or something to that effect:https://www.sportsradio1270.com/the-column-by-jerry-sullivan/

"According to Pierre LeBrun, O’Reilly told his parents after the trade from the Sabres, “They think it’s my fault.”

“He was disappointed,” his mother Bonnie said. “He kind of felt, ‘They think I’m the problem.’ We said to him, ‘We know you’re not.’ Wherever you go, just keep doing what you’re doing. He got over it and was thrilled to go to St. Louis.” "

Another excerpt from a Buffalo News article: https://buffalonews.com/2019/06/12/st-louis-blues-stanley-cup-ryan-oreilly-nhl-jordan-binnington/
"O'Reilly never wanted to be traded when he said he had lost his passion for the game. He told TSN that last year at the World Championships, saying he was looking forward to playing with Rasmus Dahlin. His father reiterated the point on the Garden ice Wednesday night.

"His comment about being complacent with losing and we have a culture where we're not doing the hard work was what he believed," Brian O'Reilly said. "We've always told our kids if you want to find the truth, you've got to remove and point out what's false. And he pointed out the falsehood. There are false things and he called them out.

"He had no intention of leaving. He wanted to stay there and build it. But once something leaves your mouth, people pick up anything they want from it and make it into anything they want. I guess that's what happened. We love Buffalo. I have the greatest respect for Terry (owner Terry Pegula). They treated him so well. I love the city. It was so nice to drive three hours and go to games. We were happy there. But they decided to move on."

Jason fallaciously identified ROR as a problem and decided he wanted to move him out, probably in conjunction with securing a nice long rebuilding window so he can remain employed for a long time. Meanwhile, Jason has given us two more seasons of untouched stretches of abominable hockey that continues to erode the mental state of the team and kick the can of really fixing this thing down the road

[...]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

"His comment about being complacent with losing and we have a culture where we're not doing the hard work was what he believed," Brian O'Reilly said. "We've always told our kids if you want to find the truth, you've got to remove and point out what's false. And he pointed out the falsehood. There are false things and he called them out."

There's so much in this here part.  

First of all, ROR did himself a favour, obviously, by simply speaking the truth.

It's funny how someone who speaks the truth is seen as a problem and ostracized. This translates into much larger and important things which, unfortunately for many different reasons, can not be hashed out here.

It's interesting to note the narrative that built up around this period about ROR and about the culture of the Sabres. I got sucked into it. It turns out ROR was right all along. This is a huge lesson to be learned by all of us. Again, not just for the Sabres and hockey, but to be applied broadly in our lives if we're at all smart and wise.

Edited February 4, 2020 by ...
The Ghost of Dwight Drane

[shrader]

So much talk coming through the parent of an established NHL vet.  That whole thing feels a bit awkward to me.

[Randall Flagg]

45 minutes ago, shrader said:

So much talk coming through the parent of an established NHL vet.  That whole thing feels a bit awkward to me.

To be fair, this all stems from the same single interview with his dad I'm pretty sure, and it was a year ago around the time when these stories were hot, so it becomes less weird in that light maybe? 

But his dad has always been one of THOSE sports dads, too. 

 

[...]

It's a convenient way for ROR to distance himself from the narrative yet get his side out at the same time. Nothing awkward about it at all, especially when players are traditionally supposed to keep "locker room stuff" in the locker room. 

[shrader]

22 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

To be fair, this all stems from the same single interview with his dad I'm pretty sure, and it was a year ago around the time when these stories were hot, so it becomes less weird in that light maybe? 

But his dad has always been one of THOSE sports dads, too.

Those types of sports dads are always going to be a red flag to me when it comes to pro athletes, well, at least the established non-teenager pro athletes.

[SwampD]

Risto never asked to be traded either. Just some Wormtongue Hamilton's leading questions spin BS. Both change of scenery questions came from him. You want the Sabres to improve?... Revoke PHam's locker room press pass.

[dudacek]

The boss sounding testy right now on WGR.

Basically called out (without naming names) Skinner, Sheary, Vesey and Johansson for not producing up to their track records.

[Kruppstahl]

Botterill on today with Schopp & Bulldog at 5:30pm.

He mentioned that in his "dialogue" (I hate this guy) with the Pegulas, it became clear they are not happy with the results.

He mentioned they are looking for development in young players and they want them to "take that next step" and somewhat implied it isn't necessarily happening.  That was his response to Schopp saying the team is roughly the same as last year and on pace for roughly the same finish, as one would have predicted....asked if he was surprised by this.

I can't stand his habit of prefacing 75% of his comments with: "Look!..."
 

https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/2-4-jason-botterill-with-schopp-the-bulldog

 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Kruppstahl