Weave Posted March 26, 2020 Report Posted March 26, 2020 2 hours ago, #freejame said: Can someone explain why I shouldn’t be concerned of everyone’s willingness to give up their freedom? Far greater catastrophes could strike with the potential kill far more and I’m afraid for what our response will be then. It’s very easy to give up freedom, it’s very difficult to obtain. Freedom does require actually living. I think most folks are smart enough to understand that willingly giving some things up temporarily is necessity to preserve freedoms once this thing passes/
#freejame Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 3 hours ago, Curt said: The only freedom that has really been suspended is the freedom to gather in large groups. What would you propose as an alternative course of action for this situation? Not a rhetorical question. South Korea isolated their most vulnerable population and they seem to be fighting the virus better than anyone else. 1 hour ago, Weave said: Freedom does require actually living. I think most folks are smart enough to understand that willingly giving some things up temporarily is necessity to preserve freedoms once this thing passes/ I’m not saying that it’s the right or wrong call. But the actual percentage of population at risk of losing their life is relatively low. We as a citizenry were eager to suspend our freedoms for something relatively minute in the grand scheme of things. It’s just really starting to have a post-9/11 vibe to it. Politicians are definitely taking note of their expansion of power. This isn’t to say that our actions are right or wrong, but graver danger is out there and at some point in the next century it will rear it’s head and we will lose more rights because things like this will have made us accustom to it.
Curt Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 10 minutes ago, #freejame said: South Korea isolated their most vulnerable population and they seem to be fighting the virus better than anyone else. South Korea did an excellent job of testing symptomatic people, quarantining them, tracking people they had contact with and quarantining those people as well. They did a great job, and it was mostly due to early, aggressive testing practices. If the US would have been able to do that, that would have been great. It did not happen though. Now it’s a different ballgame.
Weave Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 40 minutes ago, #freejame said: South Korea isolated their most vulnerable population and they seem to be fighting the virus better than anyone else. I’m not saying that it’s the right or wrong call. But the actual percentage of population at risk of losing their life is relatively low. We as a citizenry were eager to suspend our freedoms for something relatively minute in the grand scheme of things. It’s just really starting to have a post-9/11 vibe to it. Politicians are definitely taking note of their expansion of power. This isn’t to say that our actions are right or wrong, but graver danger is out there and at some point in the next century it will rear it’s head and we will lose more rights because things like this will have made us accustom to it. Yeah, I’m sure the next time the government wants to encroach on our rights they’ll make the restaurants sell takeout again.
#freejame Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, Weave said: Yeah, I’m sure the next time the government wants to encroach on our rights they’ll make the restaurants sell takeout again. You realize freedom of association is literally the very first amendment right? But I appreciate the condescension. Tell me all about how great the PATRIOT Act and FISA courts are too.
Weave Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 38 minutes ago, #freejame said: You realize freedom of association is literally the very first amendment right? But I appreciate the condescension. Tell me all about how great the PATRIOT Act and FISA courts are too. When they legislate away freedom of association like they legislated away due process and probable cause I'll be standing right there with you. Emergency powers aren't even being utilized by our federal government.
#freejame Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 9 minutes ago, Weave said: When they legislate away freedom of association like they legislated away due process and probable cause I'll be standing right there with you. Emergency powers aren't even being utilized by our federal government. Like I said in my initial post, we the people are giving up our freedom. I did not say the government. I said the government will notice the willingness for it to happen, which may lead to Post-9/11 type scenarios with legislation.
SwampD Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 (edited) Good convo and I agree with both of you. I don’t think we are even close to being there in this, though. This is just people being smart. I haven’t seen or heard of a single event of people being forced to do something by “the authorities”. Have you? Edited March 27, 2020 by SwampD
Weave Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 29 minutes ago, #freejame said: Like I said in my initial post, we the people are giving up our freedom. I did not say the government. I said the government will notice the willingness for it to happen, which may lead to Post-9/11 type scenarios with legislation. This is the same kind of thought process that brought us 8 years with no .22 ammo on store shelves because folks whipped themselves into an unjustified frenzy that Obama was going to take their guns. 1
Curt Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 51 minutes ago, SwampD said: Good convo and I agree with both of you. I don’t think we are even close to being there in this, though. This is just people being smart. I haven’t seen or heard of a single event of people being forced to do something by “the authorities”. Have you? Well, many many events have been cancelled on order of various government officials. Workplaces were ordered to close by governors. These were not voluntary actions on the part of the event organizers/business owners.
SwampD Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, Curt said: Well, many many events have been cancelled on order of various government officials. Workplaces were ordered to close by governors. These were not voluntary actions on the part of the event organizers/business owners. They also weren’t met with any resistance. Until I hear about people wanting to do something and “the government” stepping in and physically barring them from doing it, I’m not too worried. And, believe me, I’m someone who thinks about this a lot. Seems like everyone is on the same page in this. I will say, though, that Trump has to do something about all the joggers. I had to pay way too much attention while driving home from work today.
Curt Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 6 hours ago, SwampD said: They also weren’t met with any resistance. Until I hear about people wanting to do something and “the government” stepping in and physically barring them from doing it, I’m not too worried. And, believe me, I’m someone who thinks about this a lot. Seems like everyone is on the same page in this. I will say, though, that Trump has to do something about all the joggers. I had to pay way too much attention while driving home from work today. I agree for the most part. There were a few large wedding receptions that had to be broken up by police, if I recall correctly.
LGR4GM Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 13 hours ago, #freejame said: South Korea isolated their most vulnerable population and they seem to be fighting the virus better than anyone else. I’m not saying that it’s the right or wrong call. But the actual percentage of population at risk of losing their life is relatively low. We as a citizenry were eager to suspend our freedoms for something relatively minute in the grand scheme of things. It’s just really starting to have a post-9/11 vibe to it. Politicians are definitely taking note of their expansion of power. This isn’t to say that our actions are right or wrong, but graver danger is out there and at some point in the next century it will rear it’s head and we will lose more rights because things like this will have made us accustom to it. 3-4% is low as a percentage. Let's make that into actual numbers though. If we see 50% of the population infected, and we have 3% mortality that is around 10 million people dead.
SwampD Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 (edited) The president is demanding that GM opens a factory that they don't even own. He's clueless. Edited March 27, 2020 by SwampD
SwampD Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 Even better, he criticized a deal not getting done for ventilators that was done yesterday.
LGR4GM Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 48 minutes ago, SwampD said: The president is demanding that GM opens a factory that they don't even own. He's clueless. He also didn't even tweet at GM but at a long dead rando account. Why? Because the President is a clueless narcissistic ***** bag who isn't fit to wipe his own ass so he gets others to lick it clean for him. Wait until this spreads. NY might end up being one of the lucky states when all things are done. There's a literally act he can immediately use to force a company to do something for the good of the country. Why hasn't he used it? Who is making money off his inaction?
#freejame Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 3 hours ago, SwampD said: The president is demanding that GM opens a factory that they don't even own. He's clueless. Ah yes, the ol’ constitutional power to demand businesses open when you tell them too. 5 hours ago, LGR4GM said: 3-4% is low as a percentage. Let's make that into actual numbers though. If we see 50% of the population infected, and we have 3% mortality that is around 10 million people dead. I haven’t seen anything that says 3-4% mortality rate. Once all the testing is complete I would be shocked if it were anywhere near 1.5% at most. If there was 100% testing it would be even lower, probably .5%.
SwampD Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 51 minutes ago, #freejame said: Ah yes, the ol’ constitutional power to demand businesses open when you tell them too. I haven’t seen anything that says 3-4% mortality rate. Once all the testing is complete I would be shocked if it were anywhere near 1.5% at most. If there was 100% testing it would be even lower, probably .5%. I don't know her name, but the "science lady" at Trump's press conferences, I believe, said 0.7%.
Zamboni Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 (edited) US was most prepared country? Wow. Who knew ... https://www.ghsindex.org Media would have us believe the exact opposite. ? Overall the low numbers are still shameful IMO. I guess John Hopkins University agree with those findings too. Edited March 27, 2020 by Zamboni
SwampD Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, Zamboni said: US was most prepared country? Wow. Who knew ... https://www.ghsindex.org Media would have us believe the exact opposite. ? Overall the low numbers are still shameful IMO. Not sure what their criteria is but they most certainly didn't factor in testing.
kas23 Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, SwampD said: Not sure what their criteria is but they most certainly didn't factor in testing. Testing for what? What I’m saying is it’s hard to prepare testing when you won’t know what you’ll be testing for. This virus wasn’t recognized to be infecting humans until January. At that point, I don’t know what criteria this ranking would use to measure our govt to get off their ass and develop a test. Edited March 27, 2020 by kas23
Curt Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, kas23 said: Testing for what? Exactly!
SwampD Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 18 minutes ago, kas23 said: Testing for what? What I’m saying is it’s hard to prepare testing when you won’t know what you’ll be testing for. This virus wasn’t recognized to be infecting humans until January. At that point, I don’t know what criteria this ranking would use to measure our govt to get off their ass and develop a test. 14 minutes ago, Curt said: Exactly! What? Really? You really haven't heard about the shortage of tests (caused by bureaucracy and a lack of leadership) that this country has that could have recognized and isolated infected people a lot sooner slowing the outbreak like South Korea?
Curt Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 9 minutes ago, SwampD said: What? Really? You really haven't heard about the shortage of tests (caused by bureaucracy and a lack of leadership) that this country has that could have recognized and isolated infected people a lot sooner slowing the outbreak like South Korea? I was making a funny. US be like “Huh? Testing? Testing for what???” At the time I replied, Kas’ post said only “Testing for what?”. He edited and added more, making my joke less funny. Although it’s possible that it never was. Oh well. 1
Weave Posted March 27, 2020 Report Posted March 27, 2020 51 minutes ago, SwampD said: Not sure what their criteria is but they most certainly didn't factor in testing. Testing, foreign supply lines, and leadership. Yup.
Recommended Posts